Warning! This Is A Must Read!

Jim Downard · #1 (**permalink**) 06-18-2002, 03:13 PM

ANYONE interested in buying a small block Ford motor, stay AWAY from Indy Mustang Performance. I recently purchased a 393w stroker and had to tear it back down and rebuild it. He advertised a .030 block with new Scat crank, stock rods with ARP rod and main bolts. TRW pistons and moly rings. Wolverine blue racer 292 dur. .512 lift cam. Roush 200 cast iron heads with valve guides. I asked him to build it with 11:1 CR. He said he doesn't supply a harmonic damper or flywheel with his motors (balance?), but I said on this one I'd like him to supply both items as I feel more comfortable with the balance if all components are supplied. I asked him if the Ford 10.5" clutch would bolt onto the flywheel and he said "no, but I can drill and tap it so that it will." The motor shows up. Ooops, forgot to send oil pump and drive. Go to the parts store and get pump, wait couple of days to get the pump pick up ordered in. Flywheel's bolted on, time for the clutch. Pressure plate won't bolt on. Turns out he didn't centerpunch the holes before drilling them. Then to make matters worse, he used a hand held drill to drill the holes and didn't hold the drill straight. Now, the holes are drilled and tapped crooked and the pressure plate won't bolt on. Call Jeg's and order a brand new 28 oz. flywheel. Cha ching, $269 thank you very much. Motors in the car, start it up and notice some vibration, mentioned this to him, and replied some vibration is normal. Broke in the cam for 15 minutes (later he told me that the high idle cam break in was originally intended for chevy and chrysler engines, not Ford) then actually made it 270 miles before rear main seal failed. Pull motor, disassemble, and notice chattered wear on all rod and main bearings. Mr. Schaffer says to send it back to him and he'll make it right, but I don't trust him now. I take it to Performance Engineering in Circleville, Ohio. Here's what he found so far. Rod bearings turned down .0003" under minimum. Crank out of balance 51 grams on the front and 243 grams in the rear. Cylinders over bored several hundred thousandths. Other things I discovered. No pushrod guideplates, he put washers under the studs to shim them up. Cam ended up being, unknown brand, 280/289 total dur. 204/214 dur @ .050, .450"/.474" lift. Not quite the cam as originally specified. He said he changed the compression ratio to 10.5:1 without asking me, it actually checks out to 9.8:1. Not that that's such a bad thing, but it would have been nice if he'd asked me before building it and shipping it. Motor didn't have any ARP bolts inside. All were stock. Apparently it was an oversite. He shipped me the parts to rebuild, but he shorted me a main bolt and when I told him it apparently pissed him off enough that now he says he did ship all ten bolts and I must have lost one when I opened the plastic box that held them. Also, he now says the motor was perfectly balanced and that I somehow screwed up and put the wrong flywheel on it. Oh well, I guess this was one of life's lessons. To all concerned, buyer beware, and heed my warnings.

Thanks for your time.

Jim Downard

p.s. Thanks Don Scott for helping me out in my time of need. You are a CLASS ACT. All hail Don Scott

Jinx · #2 (**permalink**) 06-18-2002, 05:14 PM

lessons learned always cost too much money by the time I have learned all the lessons Ill be too old to reep the rewards of my knowledge sorry to hear the bad news jinx

MikeOD · #3 (**permalink**) 06-18-2002, 07:48 PM

Thank you for the post.I'll be sure to stay away from them,and I will be glad to pass it on!!

Roscoe · #4 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 08:53 AM

Why don't you post this over on the Consumer Forum?

Roscoe

dexter · #5 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 09:36 AM

Hopefully you're not just going to write this off to bad experience. Substituting parts = fraud. At least take him to small claims court. Plus, I'd think a crank that far out of balance is potentially dangerous, not to mention the flywheel. This guy needs to be taught a lesson.

John McMahon · #6 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 11:47 AM

My two cents on this issue is, if you plan on taking him to court, remove this thread from the Internet and anywhere else you may have it.

If not, well then he deserves all the bad publicity you can give him. Why is it that some builders, insist on fixing the problem AFTERWARDS????? With this many problems with a purchase, you can tell he just could care less.

Behind the scene in the machine shop.....

Wally: Hey Beaver, hold this flywheel still while I drill new holes fer a customer!

Beaver: Uh, Gee Wally....that's not how Dad told us to do it.

Wally: Hey Beav, are you gonna do it my way or the wrong way???? Cuz I can always get Eddie to help.

What a shame, I would grill his tucus.

Maybe Ron (computerworks) or Brent will move it to the Consumer Forum.

kanuck · #7 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 12:29 PM

JOHN why do you advise to remove the thread if he is to pursue this via the court system does this hurt his case?
inquiring minds want to know
thanks DEAN

computerworks · #8 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John McMahon

Maybe Ron (computerworks) or Brent will move it to the Consumer Forum.

Jim...
if you prefer, this thread can be moved to the Consumer Watch forum.
If so, I would like you start a thread there and review the disclaimer.
Send me a message when this is done, and I'll snip-and-move this thread for you.

GUMBALL · #9 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 01:16 PM

I have a friend that was just overcharged on his credit card for a 390FE motor from this same outfit. He is having a bit of trouble getting it corrected. Not implying anything here other than "where there is smoke, there COULD be fire".

John McMahon · #10 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 01:26 PM

I've been reading about internet issues and bad business practices. Here is an example:

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...threadid=88361

Of course, this could happen to anyone. I know of other folks that were threatened by businesses too. I don't think there is a problem if its truthful and doesn't border on Libel. Just erring on the side of good judgement.

Brent had also asked folks, that if it becomes a legal issue, to keep it off the boards (under Consumer Forum).

Jim Downard · #11 (**permalink**) 06-20-2002, 04:50 AM

Computerworks,
Go ahead and move it if you want/can. No, I do not intend to take him to court. Bruce at Performance Engineering and I both agree that the price of the motor was fairly close to what I would have had in it for parts, and by adding Bruces repair work it simply brings the motor up in price to what I would have paid from a more reputable shop like Bruces. I documented the conditions of the motor should Jim Schafer ever even try legal action against me for libel, but I would just as soon avoid using the legal system. I spent 18 months of my time trying to get money out of a village for a sewer project that they refused to pay on. The attorneys on both sides made some nice money, and we ended up settling on an amount that we could have come up with without the attorneys.

Thanks for the input everyone.

Jim Downard

p.s. The main cap studs and nuts that he sent me were an inch too short for my motor. It never seems to end.

scratch · #12 (**permalink**) 06-20-2002, 08:35 AM

Hey Jim
I have a 9" rear end for sale if you are in the market...it grinds, chatters and smells, but send me @$2K upfront and I'll take your phone calls with a smile....scratch

searanch · #13 (**permalink**) 06-20-2002, 09:12 AM

Hey Jim,

1- we can say anything that is true
2- we can say anything we believe to to be true and have some reasonable basis for that belief.
3- we can say anything we believe to be true even if we don't have a sound reason or facts to base the belief on as long as we are saying it to a group of people, like a limited purpose forum, and as long as we don't do it out of hatred or malice toward someone.

Proceed accordingly...

Jim Downard · #14 (**permalink**) 06-20-2002, 02:38 PM

I always try and give the benefit of the doubt, and I always judge for myself the true nature of an individual. Just because 10 people say someone is an A$$, it doesn't mean that I am instantly going to assume that someone is an A$$. I will proceed with caution and determine his true nature for myself. My motor problems I partially blame on myself. I knew he advertiesed a rather low price for the long block engine, so my gut had me a little nervous. I should never have proceeded, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and for that I paid the price. If nothing else, maybe someone else will heed my warnings and not make the same mistake, but sometimes thats how it goes. I really appreciate everyone's support on this matter.

Thanks,

Jim Downard

Rick Bagley · #15 (**permalink**) 06-20-2002, 02:57 PM

Jim,

I had a similar experience with a 427 TO with an individual. The good news was I got my money back but I had alot of parts and no engine.
I was lucky enough to get hooked up with Bill Parham at Southern Automotive and he helped me out of the fix. Thanks to Bill I have a nice 427 SO that I am very proud of.
Lesson learned.

ford428 · #16 (**permalink**) 08-02-2002, 12:27 AM

I SURE wish I would have read this sooner.....I just sent out $1200 for a "performance 306" to this guy.I guess at this point I will have to hope for the best,that I don't get screwed here.The guys on the "Corral" didn't have anything nice to say either and as was the case here,I was late in reading the comments/threads.

mj_duell · #17 (**permalink**) 05-07-2003, 11:18 AM

I am curious as to how your engine turned out. I too sent in my deposit after reading a few good words about IndyMustang. I am now waiting to see what I get after reading some very bad press.

PSB · #18 (**permalink**) 05-07-2003, 11:55 AM

Indy Mustang has quite a reputation - and your experience is right on par with that reputation. Hope you get it straightened out.

Pete

Wayne Maybury · #19 (**permalink**) 05-07-2003, 01:37 PM

How do guys like this manage to stay in business? Anyone can screw up once in a while but when you hear comments like those that have been posted here, you have to wonder.

I sure hope that things work out for those that have have laid out good money.

Wayne

mj_duell · #20 (**permalink**) 05-07-2003, 04:33 PM

Me too. I'm one of them. I'll let you know what happens. I have a little forsight (Thanks, to all here) so I will try to stay on top of things. Even though I have now read all of the bad press, I'm giving them a chance (Like I have a choice). If anyone here has an engine from Indy Mustang that turned out well and runs great, I would like to here from you. Anyway, I have not formely said "Hello" to the forum. So "Hello". My name is Mike, I'm 36 and I just defected from Chevy land to build my first Cobra. I have purchased a A&C kit from Sonny, should be here this week. Oh, I live near Rochester, NY for anyone who wants to help or just hang out. I am awaiting the arrival of my baby daughter in June. She is going to be named "Shelby" (no lie, wife loves the name). That's all for now.