Question? Highest speed recorded in a race - Page 2

bmalone · #21 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 01:23 PM

Jamo, we should have asked him when we saw him the other day.

Excaliber · #22 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 01:34 PM

I like Turks idea,,,maybe I don't want to know!

LOL

Ernie

bonyhadi · #23 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 02:20 PM

willy,
I was there, Ron Grable w/ A Sedan dart was in the 175+ as well. Let anyone believe what they want. If somebody wants to pony up more than a bottle of Raki, let's wager. Make it worthwhile.
God Bless America,
daniel

A Snake · #24 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 02:45 PM

I think someone hasn't ridden in or driven a 427 Cobra at full throttle to full speed.

I've had my car close to the 180 mark on the speedo and I'll guarantee it didn't take a mile for it to get there! A half mile is more like it. I'm sure the speedo isn't dead accurate by any means, but say it's off by 7-8 mph at that speed, I still went at least 170 in a car that wasn't prepared or driven like Dick Smith's was/is.

BTW my car still had a little left at that speed, I just didn't have the cajones for it and still don't. Only tried it once. Dick Smith I am not.

If Dick Smith and the rest of the world says he went 198, who am I to doubt it. I'll just politely doff my cap when he walks by.

I also did my little speed run on 60's style tires...Blue Streaks to be exact. Truth is I should be dead the way the car handled at that speed. I was just lucky, not good.

ecp · #25 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 03:39 PM

SAAC president Rick Kopec was a passenger at 180 mph in an original car at an open track event some years back. If one of you has the time, look through the SAAC registry where it's documented.......

Turk · #26 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 03:45 PM

So we are now arguing over the last 18 miles.....
Given the speedo errors (UP or DOWN) and a well prepared race car, he might have indeed achieved those speeds.

TURK

bonyhadi · #27 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 04:07 PM

Dick Smith didn't say it, a radar gun did! Now some jerk will want to see the fuxking tuning fork!

Cal Metal · #28 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 04:11 PM

Wasn't there a pretty well written post on the physics of air resistance related to the topic at hand that was posted just recently? Help me out. It was very informative.

Turk · #29 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 04:13 PM

Cal,
YES there was. Seems like about 6 months ago or something. I too will look for it.

TURK
I don't know if these are the articles you were referring to.

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...ight=Top+speed

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...ight=Top+speed

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...ight=Top+speed

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...ight=Top+speed

RACER X #99 · #30 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 04:13 PM

Bruce,
You certainly nailed it. It take two laps for a Nascar stocker to get to 195 but the Cobra can do it in 1/2 mile??? I can't understand why Shelby built the coupe if the roadsters were faster. Where the heck was Dick Smith when they were running LeMans. I'll bet he could have run 250 on that long straight they got.

Cranky

bonyhadi · #31 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 04:24 PM

Cranky,
He could have hit 275 at LeMans if he had a taste of your secret sauce! Betcha you turned downs $1million dollars for your car as did Dick Smith?

Jamo · #32 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 05:53 PM

Folks

With all due respect to Bob being acquainted with Mr. Remington, I know Dick Smith. Known him for over 20 years.

He was clocked and it was official. Now, you want to argue about a few miles here and there regarding the speed clocking technology over 30 years ago, go right ahead--it would apply to all clockings recorded at the time.

This was after Shelby had stopped working on Cobras--Mr Remington wasn't working on them at the time. I'm sure everyone puts their own babies on a pedestal when looking back through the years, and he certainly has the right to be proud of his work on the 289s, FIAs and Coupes that he had intiment knowledge of. With his work with the Scarabs and the Cobras--he is a gentleman to be held in high esteem. I must say, however, that a comment he makes while casually walking by a vehicle some 30 years later is being raised to some level of the gospel here.

THE Cobra Dick used when he was recorded at that speed is still with us. Fact is, I just saw the parts that are going into his latest engine for the car--much more to come from the driver/car.

Cranky and others bring up some interesting facts about technology that existed back then--including the aerodynamics of the Cobra and tire technolgy. Everyone ran the same types of tires back then (BTW--a few years later than 1965, Mr. Bruce--and tire technology was increasing by leaps and bounds back then), and the gods were only just beginning to let us in on airflow characteristics of race cars. Gearing? I doubt anyone can argue that the NASCAR BB could not wind high enough with gears allowing for sufficient lowend grunt for sports car racing. NASCAR vehicles have higher gearing simply because they need to live longer at higher speeds and don't need the lowend grunt except for coming out of the pits (certainly still enough for the dreaded burnouts, though). Aerodynamics--come on--family sedans hitting 200mph in the 60s--who would've thought that could happen?

Dick certainly isn't Howard Hughes--he shows up at just about every SAAC and other Cobra event there is. Sure seems to me that with 198 written on the side for all to see, if folks with sufficient FACTS to put the feat in doubt had such FACTS, they would have confronted Dick a long time ago. Course, since Dick is also one of the friendliest folks around--one who admires a replica as much as an Original--why don't one of you folks that think you have a direct link to all perfect knowledge simply go up and ask him? He's not hard to find, and, like I said, he's a friendly guy who enjoys talking Cobras--and what it was like to drive an original one in competition--with anyone.

Go ahead--use 1/10th of the energy you're using here typing your "I know better than him" posts, and give him a call or walk up to him at the next SAAC event.

Really sad to see folks who appear to be so concerned about historic accuracy to be so ready to rely on a passing comment or what they think they know to attack a long-standing, widely-held belief on this point of history.

You want his phone number? Let me know. It's going to be interesting to see who wants it.

Oh--BTW, least some of you think this is a BB vs SB thing, and that I'm now a BB person since I'm moving from a Cleveland to an SO--wrong. SBs rule on the tracks as far as I'm concerned--but I'm building a street car that will only see the track for fun. I know the history, as the vast majority of us do--had the 427s been done in time, they would've been running with factory backing and we wouldn't have the S/Cs sold to the public. Course the Coupes would have run a few more seasons if GT40s didn't some into the picture. Lotta "ifs" in history--fun to think about them, but that's about all.

Cal Metal · #33 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 06:03 PM

Thanks for the help on the link. It was Bob Putnam. "Drag increases by the square of speed which means horsepower is proportional to the cube.......it takes 8 times the horsepower to overcome aerodynamic drag at 100 mph than at 50 mph.

aumoore · #34 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 06:18 PM

From a post above
"You certainly nailed it. It take two laps for a Nascar stocker to get to 195 but the Cobra can do it in 1/2 mile??? I can't understand why Shelby built the coupe if the roadsters were faster. Where the heck was Dick Smith when they were running LeMans. I'll bet he could have run 250 on that long straight they got."

You guys are forgetting an important fact about the restrictor plate NASCAR stockers. They only put out about 450hp and with the gearing it does take 2 laps to get up to speed but before the restrictor plates Bill Elliott was lapping Daytona at 210MPH average and the unrestricted cars could reach top speed by the end of the back streatch.

Another fact lost is that the speeds posted at Daytona for NASCAR is the "average" speed not the top speed recorded with a radar gun. I would guess that even now the NASCAR boys are reaching top speeds of over 210 at the end of the straights and dropping down into the 180's in the turns. I think Bill Elliott was running over 220 in the straights when he set the qualifying record of 210. With that in mind I can see a 500HP plus lightweight Cobra hitting its top speed of 198 in 1/2 lap.

Have you seen some of the old iron at the Salt Flats running over 200? Some of these cars make a Cobra look like a streamliner.

I think there was a FFR small block running 180 somewhere?

mr bruce · #35 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 06:31 PM

Ain't nobody attackin' nobody, this is just benchracin, point counter point. Read over the DV thread about what it would take. We have to get into "the Wayback Machine", circa 1965,,not today or 1985( Billy was runnin' unrestricted, in a slightly more aero than a cobra ,85 Thunderbird) .FoMoCo wasted $10mill or more developing the GT40, the Ferrari beater was rite under their noses. Still can't find those FIA records.8x8x100x200, what's that work out to......

Jamo · #36 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 06:43 PM

Yep--just bench racing/nobody attacking anyone...

Let's put our thinking caps on kids. This fairy tale 198 was performed while using the infield road course. That means that the car had to accelerate from about 30-40 mph, up onto the stock car part of the track, and hit 198 in what 3/4,maybe 1 full mile. With 1965 tires, no aero, holding on for dear life. In the ensuing 30 plus years , no one has ever broken that record, not even at Bonneville.Living in a dream world, shattered by reality.

mr bruce · #37 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 06:59 PM

Nope, my good Barrister friend, didn't mention any one by name in particular. If I attacked anything, it was the 198 myth.Next time I see Mr S, I'll darn well tootin' ask him about it.

Jamo · #38 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 07:02 PM

Didn't think you would attack anyone by implication, Mr. Bruce. Not your nature from what I've seen over the past few years. I must've misunderstood your words.

Glad you're gonna ask the man himself.

Lew the taxman · #39 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 07:26 PM

It seems to me, from reading this thread, that there's no offical electronic proof that he went that speed. Just a radar gun. Do you remember how inaccurate those guns were back then. You could never have been convicted of speeding with just the
guns, because they were so inaccuate.

Note: I'm not trying too bash Mr. Smith. I think he was a wonderful driver, and a sports car legend. But 198! I don't know. I sure would like to think its ture.

Lew

Turk · #40 (**permalink**) 09-15-2002, 07:34 PM

Who ever said:

"We want to see the tuning fork", or
"Officer when was that gun calibrated last", or
"I want to see Certificate of Completition from an Accredited Radar Academy"

was the next set of objections, was RIGHT. Here they are!

Is the speed disputed by a margin of 5-8 miles, or are the non-believers believe that the 198 was off by a margin of 25-30 mph?

How inaccurate can a radar gun be, even the earlier ones.?..

TURK