Question? Highest speed recorded in a race - Page 9

Jamo · #**161** (**permalink**) 09-26-2002, 11:50 PM

As my post above indicated, Brent asked Bob Evans and I to post our final thoughts about our situation here. I did so in good faith hours ago. I'm sure Bob must be busy as I would like to think Brent's request will be fully honored so that the horse might be led to its final resting place.

RACER X #99 · #**162** (**permalink**) 09-27-2002, 03:55 AM

We talked about several things during the course of the show but one of the things I remember most was that Dick said that he didn't believe that the timing equipment, or possibly the operators, that gave him the 198 record speed was accurate

oh...oh

Robert Evans · #**163** (**permalink**) 09-27-2002, 05:42 AM

As Jamo has indicated above, Brent has asked each of us to square this thing up off line and iron out our thoughts. I have been in touch with Jamo and Turk offline and I believe that we have resolved our differences to my satisfaction. I am in the process of contacting Bony to finalize this also.

In essence, to bring others up to speed, my original comments about Smith's speed record was in no way an attempt to slander him nor his record. It was an attempt to seek more proof other than just someone else's word. I had credible evidence from not only Remington, but a couple of others I personally know who have been extremely involved in sports car racing back in the 60's, who also did not feel that 198mph was possible...unfortunately (or, forthunately) I never got the chance to bring them into the debate. The discussion turned the wrong direction before it could be debated sensibly. Name calling and hostility ensued before logic could prevail.

I was given advice from a couple of well-known members of CC that I should just delete the posts to try to bring the topic to a close, but it went the wrong way again. I received several emails stating that they saw nothing wrong with my comments, yet it would probably help smooth things over if they were gone, especially in light of the fact that I did not want Remington's name demeaned too. I have since re-posted my comments in their entirety, WITHOUT MODIFICATIONS, WORD FOR WORD for all to read, since that was the bone of contention.

I contacted Brent about 10 days ago right after things got heated, and emailed him the so-called offending posts that I had deleted and requested that he review them. I asked him as a friend to advise me whether the posts were offensive or not, and if so in his mind, I would make online appologies and correct my thoughts about why I believed that it was technically impossible to acheive 198mph in a stock bodied Cobra. Because Brent is very busy, I did not receive an opinion from him during the time that all this was turning sour in this thread, so I just disappeared. Not until after I re-contacted Brent did we come to the conclusion that there was a great deal of miscommunication between us and that we should resolve this between us offline.

I have made my appologies offline, and I have received appologies from others also, so I believe that this is now a dead issue so let's drop the subject. I know that we each have our own positions on this subject, but let's just agree that all of our thoughts are credible. I respect Dick Smith and his abilities very much. I respect Phil Remington and his abilities very much also. So somewhere in the middle, lets debate this sometime face to face with some logic rather than emotion, and we might be able to put everyone on top of the pedistal that they deserve.

Again, my appologies go out to those who were offended.

Now, about this Big block/small block thing......

RICK LAKE · #**164** (**permalink**) 09-28-2002, 04:22 AM

Hi Guys. I'm sorry too. I had an idea. We get 2 million dollars to cover the car,track,techs,engine builder and repeat the record again. I will drive

. There is the Silverstone race in the Southwest, someone in a Cobra must have run in it at one time, their should be records. Just a thought. Not trying to start any TROUBLE. Rick Lake

John McMahon · #**165** (**permalink**) 09-28-2002, 07:46 AM

Glad to hear all invloved were able to find a happy medium to resolve their differences. Glad folks will stay onboard and continue to contribute.

Lots of good people here. Gotta love it!

Jahred · #**166** (**permalink**) 04-27-2003, 06:00 PM

I'm not so skeptical on the 198. You can bet the engines were pretty aggressively tuned by that team.....so who knows what the horsepower was........I recollect references to 550 or better.

The aerodynamics suck, but they also has some wingage as I recollect on the lower front and perhaps elsewhere on a few of those cars. I've done 165 in a 944 turning out just 300 HP. As long as the aero was good enough to keep the front end planted on dick smiths cobra, I don't view hitting 198 as such a stretch given that you've got twice the horsepower and 30% less weight.............

RICK LAKE · #**167** (**permalink**) 04-28-2003, 04:13 PM

Jahred Johnny dee We put this thread to bed. We have all come to the conclusion that the record is documented at 198 mph. We know that the motor was turning 8,000 rpm, highway gears, tallest tire that would fit in the wheel wells. Dick said it is a flying barn door. The car was skipping down the front straight. Dick said that Ken Miles UNOFFICALLY clocked at over 200 mph in his cobra. We have a couple of cobra people with 7-900 hp in there cars. They have the power, can you set up a cobra not to start lifting at 160 mph, This is the question. If you tilt the windshield you can get 8-10 mph higher speed in top end. If I hit the lottery I am going to find out if it is possible with a cobra. I know of the special ones that have had there cobras over 160 mph, can the car push through the air another 40 mph faster???? This is what the thread was all about. Have a nice day Rick Lake

Fred Douglass · #**168** (**permalink**) 04-28-2003, 09:49 PM

.....it had a little of everything. I read an article recently about pre-war M-Bs, and the 1934-6 car (rival to A-Us) was capable of 245 mph. Rudolph Caracciola (Sp?) said that the car was capable of "at least that velocity". This was in its UNstreamlined, open-wheel form. Karl Kling, Moss and even Fangio (I think) were incapable of reaching that speed in the post-war W196s. You would have thought that the 196s would have had a decent shot at the pre-war speeds, being full streamlined bodied cars...but....
Also read a book on the "Silver Arrows" long ago, and it stated two things of interest---although a lot of you tech-wizards probably knew them anyway. The "silver" racing livery of M-B was a result of sanding paint (white?) off the car to save x pounds of weight. The second tid-bit was that the Germans tried MANY ways to get trap-speeds and EVEN experimented with driver-actuated stopwatches (yikes!). I would have to wonder if radar-guns were available in 1965-67 (as Mssrs. Fixit and Malone questioned)-----I got out of college in 1968 and never heard of Doppler radar or any other type being used domestically.
The latter fact may just mean I wasn't in the right place......Was Smith clocked or "gunned"? Anyway, it was a good thread---despite the occasional exchanges of fire....

Good on yuz all.

RICK LAKE · #**169** (**permalink**) 05-01-2003, 08:21 PM

Fred Douglass Hi Fred I talked to Dick. He was timed or clocked when the record was made. Ford was timing too and had him at 200 mph unioffically. He had on a mini shield and high speed tires. 25.5 front and 27.5 rears ( skinny salt flat speed) from Goodyear. The car had a 3.31 gear in the rear. The car was trying to lift off. Tonneau cover was over the right side seat. The car was nose heavy with an all iron SO427. He put the pedal on the floor and prayed, the rest is history. there was no other mods done to the car. As you see it today was how it ran minus the windshield and tires. The motor has been rebuilt. Rick Lake

prveqty · #**170** (**permalink**) 05-02-2003, 08:57 AM

Here's a picture of the car during that race, the key to maximizing the speed is the full width windscreen. He ran Firestone tires there.

Fred Douglass · #**171** (**permalink**) 05-02-2003, 01:03 PM

...BUTT I wasn't the one doubting Dick---I believe him and the rest of yuz!

My $.02 dealt with the radar being used...
I became somewhat of an unnwilling "expert" (thanks to our mutual Uncle). I just wasn't aware of Doppler or any other range-rate configurations of radar OUTSIDE of the military in the early-mid 1960's.

Don't warry, I am by no means a "Dick-doubter"---DO worry, however, 'cause, after having read your engine-specs, I'm coming down with a few rear-end gears (let's go for a 3:15)---then find a deserted stretch of the Joisey Pike----and go for Dick's record!

RICK LAKE · #**172** (**permalink**) 05-03-2003, 05:24 AM

Fred Douglass RELAX

You are too wound up on a Friday. The weekend is here. Have a cold one or wine or whatever. I have 3.31 in my car now, but have a set of 2.88 and 3.07 also. One of these years in the near future a am going to find a place to run at this mark. I need a bigger motor first, like 484 and about 15 lbs of boost. I have a 5spd and 6 spd so that is covered. Short wind screen and skinny tires. Thats all. You have to punch the car to 200 mph and back off, it will not stay there for any period longer than a few seconds. I got it firgured out Fred , I just need bigger BALL-----S. Dick said wieght is key to doing this.

Prveqty Thats a great picture of Dick. Where or what book was it in???? I have seenonly 3 articles of him in any public works. I am hoping that the Smith brothers will sit down and write a book about him. Rick Lake

prveqty · #**173** (**permalink**) 05-03-2003, 06:32 AM

I'm pretty sure it was from a magazine article I ran across years ago, can't remember anything more specific. I have to call Dick to find out what size anti-sway bars he settled on....anyone have input from their CSX4000 car as to what size front and rear bars they found optimal? I'm hearing 3/4" front with no rear from Kirkham and a one or two other sources, but Feinstein converged on supposedly much larger front and a rear bar when he was racing 3009 (a friend and I are trying to find out more specifics there).