"Carroll Shelby Speaks Out" Article - Page 2

Great Asp · #21 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 05:26 PM

SPF cars are brought into this country legally as an "Assemblage of Parts". Not motorcyle parts.

The big issue as posted in the letter on page 1, is "who places the drivetrain in the car. That person, or company is the one responsible to meet safety and emmision requirements. The "Assemblage of Parts" is not a motor vehicle until the drivetrain is in it. Thats the law.

In fact, when doing research for SCOF members, and myself, I can tell you that almost "every" state I found has laws in place that conflict with Federal law on these issues.

I have no comment on what the value of "our" cars are if the rollers were prevented from coming in.

Relax, the fact is MANY types of equipment are brought into this country as "assemblies", then final assembled "by others" here. All we have here is an old fart that doesn't like to see other companies do well, (unless they pay him). I could go on, but won't.

Eric

Specialk · #22 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 05:38 PM

COLD!!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by Excaliber
Hmmmmm,,,,,,wonder how Ohio would be..........

Ernie

southernfried · #23 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Specialk

COLD!!!!

TerrysSPF · #24 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 05:54 PM

They don't want to do anything about the drugs flowing into the country everyday, or all the illegals walking and driving accross the border by the bus load..........but hey, it's good to see something being done about those damn rolling chassis coming into the country! It's about time, if you ask me!

Excaliber · #25 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 06:07 PM

...so what your saying is,,,,,it might be cold? LOL

Ernie

Cobrabill · #26 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 06:19 PM

Mr Bruce-time for you to read your own posts."Complete,finished cars-less drive train".

Which is it?Can't be both.
When it pops out of that container from SA,if you can't drive it,guess what?CAR PARTS.

You contradicted yourself in the span of six words.

What does Shelby and Clara Peller have in common?

No beef

Shelby never had it either.The people he surrounded himself with did.

mr bruce · #27 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 07:16 PM

"Meticuliously reproduced by the worlds largest manufacturer of COMPLETE Cobra reproductions"."Your Superformance Cobra is delivered to you COMPLETE in every respect except for your choice of engine and transmission". STRAIGHT from the SPF ad. Same thing that I said ,but using more words. How much does an SPF cost in South Africa?

BANDIT 1 · #28 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 08:19 PM

I was going to post this on 12/12/02, but I didn't want to be the first "troublemaker". However since the ball is rolling, here is my .02 cents....

Well it looks like the ol' "Texas Snake" is at it again. I have stayed out of the Shelby debate for years, however the last two years the guy talks $hit everwhere he goes. He is now in the January "Mustang and Fords" magazine talkin' trash again.

Here are some quotes:

M&F: So what do you want to do with the rest of your life?

Shelby: (Laughs) Ah, just build cars. Play with my airplanes. work on my foundation. Do the things I've always been doing. I'll never quit because I'd be bored. IT'S A TOUGH, TOUGH MARKET OUT THERE NOW. SO MANY PEOPLE BUILDING THESE CARS. THESE KNOCK-OFF PEOPLE STEALING MY COBRA'S. WERE MAKING SOME HEADWAY ON THAT.

M&F: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Shelby: YEAH, BUT A LOT OF THESE SONS-OF-*****ES PISS ME OFF. IN 1985, I ASKED THESE GUYS TO GIVE ME $1,000.00 EACH FOR CHARITY AND I'D LICENSE THEM. MOST OF THEM NEVER EVEN WROTE ME A LETTER. THAT'S WHEN I STARTED SUING THEM. IT'S HARD TO SUE ALL OF THEM. I FIGURE THERE'S SOME STUFF HAPPENING THAT WILL PUT MOST OF THEM OUT OF BUISNESS ANYWAY. THE GOVERMENT ISN'T GOING TO PUT UP WITH THESE COBRAS COMING IN FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE WITH NO EMISSIONS OR SAFETY STANDARDS. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH LONGER THEY WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS LOOPHOLE.

M&F: What loophole?

Shelby: THEY DON'T HAVE TO MEET SAFTY AND EMISSION STANDARDS. YOU'D BE SURPRISED. WITH THE SERIES 1, WE HAD TO MEET THE SAME EPA STANDARDS AS GENERAL MOTORS.

Later in the interview...

M&F: I hear you're in bed with Ford again. Any truth to that rumor?

Shelby: YEAH, JOHN COLETTI IS A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE. FORD IS REALLY WHERE I BELONG. WERE WORKING ON A NEW COBRA ROADSTER TOGETHER. FORD'S WORKING ON THE NEW FORD GT, WHICH IS WHY I HAVEN'T SAID MUCH ABOUT THE COBRA. FORD'S MARKETING PEOPLE WILL SELL IT. PEOPLE ASK ME WHY I DON'T BUILD ANOTHER SHELBY MUSTANG. BUT WHY SHOULD I COMPETE WITH ROUSH AND SALEEN WHEN THE DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY AT IT? THE FACTORY IS GOING TO COME OUT AND BEAT BOTH OF THEM BECAUSE COLETTI AIN'T GOING TO LET ANYBODY GET TOO BIG WITH ALL OF THESE GUYS HE HAS AT SVE. IT'S A WONDERFRUL GROUP HE HAS PUT TOGETHER.

A couple of questions, I have?

1. When he mentions the $1,000.00 each, it almost sounds like he is saying he wants a donation of $1,000.00 from each MANUFACTURER, when we know he wants $1,000.00 from each car. I don't know if it's the magazines fault or Shelby, but the common man would think all of the Manufacturer's are pretty low if they won't donate a lousy $1,000.00 (per Manufacturer) for the charity.

Does Shelby donate $1,000.00 per car to charity?
Does Shelby make Kirkham and the other companies he has worked with donate $1,000.00 per car?

2. He has talked before about how he is trying to stop the other Cobra manufacturer's because they are selling "unsafe", "unregulated" , and "poor copies" of the Cobra.

Yet this guy states that he would License any Company that payed the $1,000.00 "donation".

We all know that he would "license" a Cobra replica built on a Pinto chassis as long as they "donated" $1,000.00 per car.

3. He mentions that the "Goverment isn't going to put up with these Cobra's coming in from all over the place with no emissions or safety standards". "They don't have to meet safety and emissions standards".

His Cobra get's by with the same "loophole" as every other Cobra Manufacturer. I don't think I have ever seen a "new" 427 S/C Cobra from shelby that had emissions controls, air bag, 5 mph bumper, third brake light, etc... but the way he words it, it sounds like only his Cobra's are safe and have the proper emissions controls.

Why would it surprise this idiot that the Series 1 would have to "meet the same EPA standards as General Motors". After all, like the Viper the Series 1 is a all new car, duh!

4. Shelby: "WE'RE WORKING ON A NEW COBRA ROADSTER TOGETHER".

It looks like Ford was helping him sue the other manufacturer's and going after everyone using the "Cobra" logo or name because Ford does want to make a "new" Cobra roadster after all!

Cobrabill · #29 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 10:08 PM

O.K.,Mr Bruce-i guess i have to explain everything to you.
The ad refers to the SPF being in such a state that all you have to do is install the Motor/trans to finish it.

The ad is NOT saying it is a COMPLETE car.

And like i said in my earlier post-If you can't drive it off the dock-it ain't a car.

If it ain't a car-it's not subject to federal regulations-no matter how much that P.O.S. Shelby whines.

wadesdad · #30 (**permalink**) 12-17-2002, 11:19 PM

Ernie,

Two theories----

Ohio is one of those places where the bureaucrats want to be accommodating, due to their mid-western upbringing. As such, it's a walk in the park to get a car registered.

---or---

The bureaucrats figure with just 3 months of warm weather, how the he** can these guys hurt anything with their expensive toys.
Lets register them all after all, they're likely to be voters!

I'm not sure which it is, but I'm driving a car I built, and the only thing the state was worried about was whether or not I had stolen parts.

traindriver · #31 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 05:08 AM

Here's the law from the US Code,

For reference 30112(a) says that any motor vehicle must meet the US standards in place at the time of manufacture, but 30145 exempts incomplete vehicles and equipment as follows:

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

SUBTITLE VI--MOTOR VEHICLE AND DRIVER PROGRAMS

PART A--GENERAL

CHAPTER 301--MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY

SUBCHAPTER III--IMPORTING NONCOMPLYING MOTOR VEHICLES AND EQUIPMENT

Sec. 30145. Importing motor vehicles or equipment requiring
further manufacturing

Section 30112(a) of this title does not apply to a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle equipment if the vehicle or equipment--
(1) requires further manufacturing to perform its intended
function as decided under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of
Transportation; and
(2) is accompanied at the time of importation by a written
statement issued by the manufacturer indicating the applicable motor
vehicle safety standard prescribed under this chapter with which it
does not comply.

(Pub. L. 103-272, Sec. 1(e), July 5, 1994, 108 Stat. 964)

Clearly there is no loophole, it's a law. Now of course the chicken farmer lobby could convince some legislator to try to change the law but l doubt that would happen.

There are really 2 items to point out, First in the importation of the the rollers, which as mentioned above is allowed by law. If Shelby was able to change that, he still has the second issue of ERA, Unique, et al, and his cars not meeting safety of emissions.

Any action on this would likely kill the entire industry Shelby included.

The big picture is that this issue is minute compared with the gas mileage and rollover issues with SUVs, airbags that can kill you, tires that fall apart....

Chas

Cobrabill · #32 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 08:38 AM

Yesterday,i was standing in the front of a Kay-Bee toy store here in town while my girlfriend loked in back for something.I look on the shelf and i see a bunch of the metal die-cast cars.

Naturally i start looking for a Cobra.What do i see?A Shelby series 1.

Why anyone would want a model of that roach is beyond me but morbid curiosity got the better of me.
I pick it up and start reading the side of the box.
Listed with all the other legal-ese are words claiming that Shelby owns the copyright on the SHAPE of the COBRA.

Forget court decisions.
That's what i like about Ol'Shelby,he never lets the truth get in the way of a good story-and his stories are the only ones that matter.And he will do/claim what ever the **ck he wants.

My Christmas wish this year is that he gets run over by a Reindeer.

Jeff Frigo · #33 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 08:46 AM

The man lies through his teeth. It is really sad that he is 80 years old and such an ass. I'm sure he lost a ton of money on that stupid Series one. Keeps on increasing the price hoping to break even.

BT SNAKE · #34 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 09:40 AM

Over on the GT40 Forum there was a thread where Meat
eluded to some kind of pending legislation to stop the importation of partially assembled vehicles like the Cav GT40 and the Superformance. I checked around and was unsuccessful in finding anything on the net about it.
Here is the link to the thread on the GT40 forum...
http://www.gt40s.com/cgi-bin/ultimat...c&f=1&t=000954

It's near the bottom if don't care to read the whole thing.

Hersh

Tom T. · #35 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 10:09 AM

Mr. Bruce,

Funny, I understood exactly what you meant.

TT

REAL 1 · #36 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 01:42 PM

Guys: Com'on. Its Xmas. Lighten up. Don't be so MEAN!

Sheesh.

Let it go. This is supposed to be a fun hobby remember. The more you bash the father of the car you love so much the more you tarnish the car and its history IMHO.

Excaliber · #37 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 02:31 PM

Real 1,,,,,,,I gotta admit I liked that line about Shelby never letting the "truth" get in the way of good story. Thats bench racing at it's finest, and heck we all love to do that, it's a HUGE part of the sport. And your right, I don't like Shelby "bashing", but he sure is a fun target sometimes. Just like you, lol.

The rest of you guys, play nice.

Ernie

Mark IV · #38 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 06:13 PM

I am personally somewhat concerned about the tone many posts here and elsewhere are taking regarding CS.

I do not know the man. Our paths have crossed a couple of times and he has spoken to me but I am sure that he wouldn't know me from a bag of rectums.

I too, held him in "godlike" status for many years. When I was young and thought the Cobra was the neatest thing since sliced bread, I held him in the greatest regard. I was very disappointed when his health kept me from seeing in the flesh at an early Trans-Am race at Watkins Glen. I was convinced he was Henry Ford, Enzo Ferrari and Preston Tucker all in one.................as time went on I realized the Tucker comparison was probably the closest to the truth (in my opinion).

I very much admire his ability to work with OPIUM (Other Peoples Money) and IS the consumate promoter. He was a very talented driver in his day an no one should take that away. However, he NEVER "designed" a car. He did not "manufacture" cars per se, rather he arranged a melding of several sources into more than the sum of the parts. His greatest skill may be finding great people and letting them do the job. Remington, Miles, Brock and others rose to the occasion and beyond. The ability to manage many headstrong personalities is a skill most of us lack.

I am saddened to see what he has become and more saddened that many who admired him are now becoming as embittered as the man himself seems to be.

Lets all stop a moment and think about what we post. I have been guilty of of posting things that I thought were funny or amusing but in retrospect I find them insensitive.

That I am concerned should be of no weight to you or the others on this forum......that said we still should be civil and respectful of the feelings of those we talk about should be.

I wish I had the verbose skills of Turk and others so that I could present this better. I too, am upset and disappointed with the direction that CS has taken, I do however, wish him and everybody else on this forum nothing but the best-good health and happiness.

Rick

Cobrabill · #39 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 06:29 PM

Excaliber-please explain to me how my"truth"line is bench racing.
A superior Court has determined that Shelby DOES NOT own(copyright)the shape of the Cobra.

Documented fact.

Christmas is a time for the truth-guess the truth don't sit well with some folks,oh-well.

I'll say it again-Shelby's creations were a success DESPITE himself.Series 1 is proof.

The people Shelby surrounded himself with are really the ones responsible for the cars we drive today.Don't thank the snake-oil salesman savant-thank them.

Excaliber · #40 (**permalink**) 12-18-2002, 09:45 PM

Truth,,,,,my motor is bigger than your motor and I have the Dyno sheet to prove it! Bench racing. Another truth, CS doesn't really "own" the Cobra shape\design, but he is so closely linked to it, it's almost the same thing. If he wants to say he "owns" it, thats OK with me. It's kinda like bench racing, tall tales or fishing stories. The BEST stories have an element of truth in them. I won't pick apart my friends "stories", I'll just accept them and grin. Next year that same fish will be bigger, the Dyno run will be higher, it's all good and sometimes it's down right funny!

Ernie