Kirkham Raffle tickets... - Page 4

casaleenie · #61 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 07:43 AM

Jim Maxwell,
Could a check be written directly to CF and used to pay for the raffle tickets? Perhaps a bit off center but possible?

rdorman · #62 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 08:56 AM

If you auction it the only person that would get it is someone who can afford to pick up the phone and buy one from the Kirkhams them selves.

I does not matter to me how many tickets you sell or the cost. I am buying some. I would think that $50 - $100, unlimited.

Advertising in Kit Car or other auto publications such as Road&Track is a great idea. Where the heck are the guys from some of those speed vision shows, hot rod TV etc.?

Have a 'display' that can be set up at car events with the web sight and contest information. Get them out soon. I bet we could put one at Germain Ford, the car restoration place that Frank works at, Quaker Steak and Lube, Jegs, Summit(how is it going with them?), etc. Get them in the shows. Just a free standing cut out with picture and information and maybe a tear off with the information will work fine. Don't sell the tickets at the events, to much to keep track of and a accounting nightmare. Sell them ON the web site. Get them for sale SOON!

Touring the car would be great but expensive. The more we advertise the virtues of the car the more, perhaps, we can help the Kirkhams as well as CF.

Jim Maxwell · #63 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 09:39 AM

Casaleenie, Only an IRS auditor and your conscience would know, and the auditor would have to do some digging. However, it isn't "legal".

Jeb · #64 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 10:04 AM

My opinion only, let me state that upfront.

Unless you can sell $80,000 worth of tickets by June 1st, I think the best idea would be to just auction it off.

Despite references to 'family' and 'little man', the fact still remains that CF has been given an asset, not the 'family', not the 'little man'.
It is the responsible course to maximize the value to be realized by the sale of this asset. If that means some fat cat that could just as easily buy it from Kirkham pays full price, then so be it. The Kirkhams have done a good deed and have clearly stated that whether it is auctioned or not does not matter to them. I would take them at their word. Whatever course is taken with CF's car, I think it is only fair, right, and the simply honorable thing to do, to get as much money as possible from its sale for CF.

I would maybe attempt to sell the tickets, with a clearly defined minimum number to be sold printed right on the ticket. Perhaps a line where the purchaser could waive refund if the minimum is not reached. If you sell that amount of tickets by June 1st, then all is good. If not. Then auction it off for two weeks. The Kirkhams' generosity will be rewarded either way...you will have promoted the Kirkham car, and the Kirkhams' good will, for 6 months across the country (and across the seas as well). If an auction then becomes necessary, the Kirkhams' exposure just continues.

As for this one car building future years' activity. In real life, I don't think so. Sorry. It's the event as a whole, the people, concept and cause that will build the event, not the one-time donation of a car. I don't go to Nashville, Indiana's May Shelby event for raffles. I go for the cars that show up and the people who drive them.

This is sort of like auctioning off the family farm: you divide it into 5 parts like back 40, woodlot, front 40, side 30, and buildings. Then you auction off each piece. Then you auction off the whole thing at once. However the most money is offered, that is how it is eventually sold, piece-wise or whole. I think if you can get enough from the raffle pieces, you should go that way, but if you can get more by just selling it whole, 1 time, then I think that's the way it should go.

There are many people who will never be able to afford a Kirkham car. This is an opportunity for them to have such a chance. But giving them the chance shouldn't cost CF. And, I wonder what will happen to the car anyway, if it is won by someone who could marginally afford it, when the $25,000 tax bill comes due?

Again, these are just my opinions, based on a little experience. Please take them that way.

Jamo · #65 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 10:35 AM

Hmmmm......

We live in strange times. Turk and Jeb agree on something.

xlr8or · #66 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 10:47 AM

My thoughts exactly Jamo.
Maybe we should ask Toivo what he thinks... NOT!

rdorman · #67 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 10:53 AM

Turk and Jeb make good points. But DV, DONT LISTEN TO THEM

Jamo, congradulations on your recent victory. Time for a rematch???

Jamo · #68 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 10:57 AM

Let's get it on!

Set it up.

HIQ · #69 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 11:26 AM

eBay the car and get the most $$$ possible for the Jenny! I would love to buy raffle tickets, but is it realistic to sell $80,000 in raffle tickets?

Dan Semko · #70 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 11:38 AM

Here's a viable solution that will appease everyone, have TWO Kirkham cars, the original car that David so generously donated and the second, a COMPLETED roller, engine, updates, the whole ball of wax, which DV would purchase for a set amount "after the raffle."
The first raffle tickets could be sold at $25@ with an unlimited number available with as much national coverage as possible, and the second would be limited to a maximum of 200 tickets, available to only the cobra group members for $250@.
Everybody wins!

Put me down for 2 of the $250 tickets!

mrmustang · #71 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 11:42 AM

Folks, in todays marketplace, what makes you think that you would get $80,000 for the car on Ebay......Since no similar car(s) exist on Ebay at this time (remember, this is a 289FIA car being built/donated, not a 427SC), where are you pulling that number from....Remember, the KMP911 car sold for far less than current market value...Even with all of the hype involved, and it's HUGE media exposure.....The raffle is the way to go, in this way, everyone has an equal chance of winning the car....For those talking about an auction, remember once again, the efforts here are in the long run, not always in the short term (dollar wise)...Sit back and truly think about it for a while, I think you'll finally understnad my own mindset on this particular subject...............

Bill S.

Jeb · #72 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 12:22 PM

I pulled $80K out of the air.

What is a 'good' number?

DV was offered $51K for the roller, sans drivetrain and finishing. Is $20K for motor, trans etc unreasonable? Then there's the cost of printing tickets, distribution, accounting, postage, licensing the raffle ad nauseum...

It should not only fetch its worth, but its marketing costs as well. It's charity, if it's a raffle. If it's an auction, it's pure marketplace economics and I don't know what a one-of-a-kind Cobra is worth in this market, or in the June-to-be market. Does anyone?

Personally, I'd give the Kirkham roller to Turk in fair trade, straight-up, for a brand-new Vette that is finished, recognizable, warranteed. I'd let Turk sell the Kirkham, either through here or some other channel, give the proceeds, less his costs, to CF. Then, if everyone wants a raffle that'll raise $80K, raffle off the vette into a far larger marketplace of ticket buyers, and extend it through Gold in Illinois.

As for the event in June, use the donations from all the other vendors to feed the raffles there.

Having the Kirkham donation as the sole focus of the June event is a little unfair to the other vendors who have donated, perhaps not as much in absolute dollar terms, but the same in percentage terms or at least as much as they could in these times. So sell the Kirkham now, or when it becomes available, raffle off a 'Vette for CF, take the proceeds, if any from the sale of the Kirkham over the cost of the Vette and give it straight to CF, sometime in February. Take the proceeds from the Vette raffle and ditto, straight to CF sometime in September. Take the proceeds from the event itself, and, you got it, donate it straight to CF in June.

BUT, if you're going to raffle anything off, you had better start NOW.

My opinion, and recognise that I'm just trying to get CF to maximum value from the donation, and don't get all hung up on "vettes vs anything". It's all about marketing. Another opinion of mine is: if you're raffling the cobra, go for $100, $250 or even $1000 tickets. If you're raffling the vette, $10 or $20 tickets.

rdorman · #73 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 12:35 PM

Kirkham give the group, namely DV, a car to raise money for CF and you want to trade it for a Corvette

I think it is fair to say that idea will not be pursued. I mean no offense but that seems to be a bit to much 'free think' out loud. Suggesting for right or wrong that a Corvette will draw more money than a completed Kirkham makes me ill.

Oh the imagery. Hundreds of Cobra lovers gathered round to see who won a Corvette!!!! Might make a good donor car though

DV, its your 'happening baby'......... just don't freak me out

Dirty Harry · #74 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 12:56 PM

I would prefer the raffle over the auction or outright sale of the KMP. The difference in money to CF/Team Jenny may or may not be significant, but a raffle would just seem to fit in with the general mood and spirit of DVSF. I think ticket sales would be spirited. A lot of guys like me who could never afford to buy one would have a chance at a very nice car. (Just my $.02)

Dwight · #75 (**permalink**) 12-30-2002, 07:45 PM

AFTER READING ALL THE POSTS, I WANT TO CHANGE MY MIND. A RAFFLE WITH $10 TICKETS, IF IT IS TO BE ADVERTIZED NATION ( WORLD ) WIDE. WITH 6100 MEMBERS, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SELL 2000 MEMBERS 10 TICKETS EACH.

2000 x $10 x 10 = $200,000!

$100,000 = 10,000 x $10

HOW MANY HOT RODDERS AND CAR SHOW "GOERS" WOULD GIVE $10 TO DREAM ABOUT OWNING A COBRA?

IF 100 CLUB COBRA MEMBERS SOLD 100 TICKETS EACH WE WOULD HAVE $100,000.

A CARD TABLE, CAR SHOW AND A PICTURE OF THE CAR TO BE. OH YES, A CHAIR. I'VE RAISED 1000s OF DOLLARS AT GUN SHOWS, A DOLLAR AT A TIME. THE CAUSE IS GOOD. THAT MAKES THE RAISING OF THE MONEY EASIER.

BUY TICKETS ON THIS SITE AND USE CREDIT CARDS? MONEY ORDERS & MAIL?

jamesson · #76 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 02:43 PM

If its open to Canada?
I have $156 Canadian for a ticket...

Where's the site?
Jim

Double Venom · #77 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 05:31 PM

OK,Ok...

David and I have talked about this, and talked about it. David insists that their donation is no more credible than any other donation to the DVSF. He also insists it is up to "US," OK, me, on how we dispose of the car.

To me, the guy that donates an oil pan, the lady's that hand made those absolutely gorgeous quilts, the family's that come in and buy something at the auction that they probably don't need are all singularly as important. The sum of the parts....equal the whole.

Will Jenny and CF get more donations because of the unbelievable heart of all the Kirkhams? Of course they will, but as part of our Cobra family, is one donation more important than the others? I don't think so.

I've received two checks dedicated to the rebuild of the motor already! To me this just reinforces my beliefs that "we" are family and that "we" as a whole will do what ever "we" can to get the job done! Here's two guys that have opened their hearts and their wallets to help us get this done. They asked for nothing in return. No free registration, raffle ticket(s), just sent us the money so we can make sure the winner of this fabulous gift, gets a super-period correct motor. (Read down for more on this baby!)

As Dan & Dave (Semko) told me the first year, the second year and hopefully they wont feel the need to tell me this year; remember what started this! "THE family" did! A picnic, a get together of good people all with the same love of these cars, and of course the love of a good chocolate chip cookie. The bonus is, we get to help Jenny and thousands of other kids with Cystic Fibrosis. With that in mind....it WILL BE A RAFFLE. Plain and simple. David also agrees with this 100%. Everyone, and I mean everyone has to have a chance at this fabulous "gift" from the Kirkhams. As usual "everyone" is eligible to win. Me included!

If you hadn't heard, it will be a 289 motor. As it should for a FIA. No plain Jane here either! With the amazing offer of "Turnpike boy, Mr. Mustang, Jeff and others, this motor will be a mini-monster motor. Turnpike boy, has donated a Hi-Po 289 for this project and is in the process of shipping it here as we speak.

David is working some more of his magic and is trying to get us some very nice "bolt ons" for this heart and soul of the Fling Cobra.

The Fling Crew is working hard and even faster than before getting the web site done and up and running. All I can say is it will be done without haste, where all items regarding the Fling will be for sale, including the raffle tickets!

My plan concerning the KMP Cobra is that it will be transported all over the country, making every show possible between now and the Fling. How this is going to happen, I have no idea, but it will happen! It, as well as the Fling will also be listed in most major magazines across the country.

YES, Per CF (01-06-03) the buying of a raffle ticket for CF IS tax deductible! At least as of today. I insisted on more information and they said, if nothing with the IRS has changed recently then tickets are deductible. Taxes still have to be paid by the winner though. (If CF recinds this, I will post it immediately.)

DV...what else needs to be said?

xlr8or · #78 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 06:10 PM

As stated before,
I will be going to the Knott's show in April and will volunteer to man a post some of that time.

We may want to think about what shows there will be an official booth/table setup and get a schedule together for it.

Any other Cobra/Ford/Replica specific shows we could attend between now and then? Isn't Carlisle in May?

Double Venom · #79 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 06:41 PM

xlr8or has an excellent point.
I have absolutely no idea what shows that we could get into other than Knotts and Carlisle. Although we have already been invited by the Viper Club to go to a very special show at Charlotte in April! It's a Viper show, but they said they would help feature the Fling Cobra, encirceling it with Vipers so no one could miss it!

Guys, this is big, really big. Did I tell you this is getting BIG?

Give me the show you want the car to attend
ABSOUTELY give me the dates
Without dates I can't set up the schedule!

Lets make a list and we'll have a poll on it.
DV

btsai · #80 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 07:10 PM

If it comes through Arizona at any time, I'd bet you could raise some decent money at the weekly (read: LARGE) cruise-in at the Pavillions in Scottsdale. Not sure who you'd need to get permission from, though. Probably (at least) the McDonald's -- who manages the cruise night and the parking lot around them...