Kirkham Raffle tickets... - Page 5

mikiec · #81 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 07:21 PM

I also volunteer to help man the booth at Knotts...I figure I could do from 9am to 5pm Saturday. Sunday from 9am to 1pm.

Mike

Jim Maxwell · #82 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 07:38 PM

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't think CF is correct about deductibility of raffle tickets. I will post the IRS rule as soon as I find it, but here are the details from a U. of Calif. web site. You also need to check the laws of the state in which the raffle is held so that you don't find out after the fact that you have broken the state law and all the proceeds end up in the state's pocket instead of CF's. I know it's a pain in the butt, but that's what needs to be done. You may even need to notify or register the raffle with the state where it is "held". I don't know about the rules when you go to multiple states promoting the raffle.

"Raffles. The IRS holds that amounts paid for chances to par-
ticipate in raffles, lotteries, or similar drawings, or to parti-
cipate in puzzle or other contests for valuable prizes, are not
gifts and therefore not tax deductible.

Caution must be exercised in any drawing involving prizes so that
it does not fall within the definition of a lottery prohibited
under Section 319 of the California Penal Code, as follows:

. . . any scheme for the disposal or distribution of
property by chance, among persons who have paid or
promised to pay any valuable consideration for the
chance of obtaining such property or a portion of it,
or for any share or any interest in such property, upon
any agreement, understanding, or expectation that it is
to be distributed or disposed of by lot or chance,
whether called a lottery, raffle, or gift enterprise,
or by whatever name the same may be known.

In other words, if (1) a prize is given by a method involving
(2) chance for a (3) consideration paid by the participant, the
award of that prize would be considered an unlawful lottery.

If, however, prize tickets used in a raffle are available free
upon request to the public, the element of consideration would be
lacking and the distribution of prizes would not then constitute
a lottery. The fact that a purchase is not necessary would have
to be printed on all promotional materials and on the tickets
themselves."

Jim Maxwell · #83 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 07:57 PM

OK, here it is straight from the IRS web site:
"Costs of raffles, bingo, lottery, etc. You cannot deduct as a charitable contribution amounts you pay to buy raffle or lottery tickets or to play bingo or other games of chance. For information on how to report gambling winnings and losses, see Deductions Not Subject to the 2% Limit in Publication 529. "

Also, in most states, only tax-exempt,or charitable organizations can hold a raffle, otherwise, I'd be holding weekly raffles for the treasures in my attic, so, what organization will actually "hold the raffle?"
The good news is that you can deduct your gambling losses if you don't win the raffle! (you can look up how to do that yourself on the IRS website.)
(The reason I fixate on this is my kids' school has had raffles and these questions have come up dozens of times).

Double Venom · #84 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 08:54 PM

Jim,
You are not being argumentative. This raffle IS being held by CF a federally licensed and exempt 501-C3 licensed organization. The "Fling" is not holding the raffle, but only acting as a lawfull extension of CF.

If this raffle is illegal in the State of California, or in any other state then they, the residents of such states will be on their own and we wont be transporting the Cobra to those states with the intent of selling tickets!

As I mentioned earlier, I talked to CF today rather extensively about this. Enough so that I insisted not only a verbal, "OK", but a written "OK" from CF Corporate out of Boston.

Now, lets assume we can not sell tickets in California or some other states, what happens if a Californian, buys a ticket here at the Fling and wins?

Ha! I just realized this is exactly what happened last year! By proxy no less. The winner of the Daytona Cp. lives in California. A friend of his was here and bought the winning ticket that morning. (The friend is also a California resident)

In fact we're building that car for the winner as we speak. I'm serious...now what happens? He can't take it home to California?
He wont be able to register it? What are the consequences?

Quote:
"Costs of raffles, bingo, lottery, etc. You cannot deduct as a charitable contribution amounts you pay to buy raffle or lottery tickets or to play bingo or other games of chance. For information on how to report gambling winnings and losses, see Deductions Not Subject to the 2% Limit in Publication 529. "

Jim...the above applies, I believe, to NON-501-C3 licensed charity's. I am far from being a tax lawyer, so I can only pass on what they have told me. I do know that they hold numerous raffles all year, (none as neat as ours of course).

We had the same questons arise as you mentioned in Ohio when we tried to hold a raffle for our High School years ago. Short story, a 501-C3 license was applied for and granted and the raffle went on.

Your concerns are being addressed! As soon as I get confirmation from CF I will pass it on!

DV...where do I find the subarticle: 2% limit..publication?

casaleenie · #85 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 09:05 PM

Jim Maxwell,
You're absolutely correct about raffle tickets being non-deductible.
That is why I always try to write a check for the tickets to the named charity.... I find that I can still live with myself afterwards.
If my past performance in raffles is any indication, winning is not even a consideration... It always turns out to be a donation.

Jim Maxwell · #86 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 09:05 PM

DV, Thanks so much for your detailed answer. You are obviously way ahead of me. I just wanted to make sure that the raffle didn't cause any problems for you or CF.
I would love to know that I could deduct raffle tickets, but I still don't see anything that says you can, no matter what organization is running it, UNLESS they give the tickets away, which kind of defeats the purpose.
I'll hold my further thoughts to myself for the sake of not boring everyone out there to tears(anymore than I already have!)
(However, I am already increasing my income tax withholdings on my paycheck in eager anticipation of winning the Kirkham!)
Ever the optimist, Jim

Jeb · #87 (**permalink**) 01-06-2003, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Double Venom

OK,Ok...

My plan concerning the KMP Cobra is that it will be transported all over the country, making every show possible between now and the Fling. How this is going to happen, I have no idea, but it will happen! It, as well as the Fling will also be listed in most major magazines across the country.

Possible outlet for a few tickets and an appreciative audience for the car itself:

http://www.mustangcards.com/indsaac/

CobraDan · #88 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 03:23 AM

I would really like to show off the Kirkham Cobra at our 3rd. annual event of the Deep South Cobra Club being held on May 9-10-11, 2003 at Silver Springs Theme Park, in Florida.

Dan Wulff

Double Venom · #89 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 05:30 AM

casaleenie,
Help me out here. Give me an IRS code, or something that I can take to CF. I'm serious about this. I am a firm believer in, "well, we've done "this or that" for years" simply doesn't make it OK, or legal.

The last thing I want is for one of us to get into trouble with the IRS or disparage the Fling and CF in anyway. I sure hope CF gets me a "legal" answer soon!

As far as future shows go-people send me an e-mail with your requests. List date(s) and locations. Contact person if possible. Please use some, well common sense in your requests. Chances are we will not be able to drive hundreds of miles or more for a "parking lot" type show. We obviously have limited funds and certainly limited time slots for this. On the other hand rest assured we will make every attempt to get the car shown in every major show in the country!

DV...Oh ya, we can get 80 hours out of a 40 hour week! We've been doing 60 already!

Ron61 · #90 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 05:35 AM

To all,

The KAN car show in Redding, Calif. is from April 9-13. That is the largest show North of Sacramento and they do have
raffle tickets on many different items at all the car shows around here and I have never heard of any problem. They raffle off everything from complete motors to cars. If the car could be in this area during that time this would be a good show to put it in as we get people from all over the country in here. Otherwise if we could get some nice posters of the car and what it is for I am sure some of the guys would help spread them around. Also how do we buy the tickets. I have already been asked that question several times.

Emerson Motorsports would be the best place to contact here as Bill's shop is just 1 mile from my house and he has contact with almost every car nut in Northern Calif.

Ron

cobrajeff · #91 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 05:58 AM

The car definately should be at the Shelby American Automobile Club's National Convention at Nashville Speedway, May 23-25th, 2003. The concentration of "Cobra nuts" at a SAAC event is much higher than at Carlisle or Knott's.

regards,

cobrajeff

KeithBrown · #92 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Double Venom

Although we have already been invited by the Viper Club to go to a very special show at Charlotte in April! It's a Viper show, but they said they would help feature the Fling Cobra, encirceling it with Vipers so no one could miss it!

Guys, this is big, really big. Did I tell you this is getting BIG?

Give me the show you want the car to attend
ABSOUTELY give me the dates
Without dates I can't set up the schedule!

Lets make a list and we'll have a poll on it.
DV

DV,

I would love to help at in Charlotte if you need bodies.

BTW - Is this the Foodlion Autofair on Apr 3-6??.

This is a pretty big show.

Just let me know what I can do.

Keep up the great work!!

Keith

RACER X #99 · #93 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 06:58 AM

Jeff,
That may or may not be a good Idea to display the car at the SAAC convention. Certainly more exposure than any other event, especially with all Ford lovers in attendance. But won't the Shelby worshippers wonder why the Cobra isn't a Shelby donated by CS himself. After all he is usually there signing anything for donations to his own charity.
And is SAAC going to donate a spot for the display. After all the convention is their cash cow.

Cranky

rdorman · #94 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 07:05 AM

"But won't the Shelby worshippers wonder why the Cobra isn't a Shelby donated by CS himself."

Yes they may wonder why Shelby didn't donate it. And I like it

Carroll does a lot of good charity work, I just couldn't resist!

DV, glad to hear it is a raffle. Can't wait to see how the coupe turns out.

casaleenie · #95 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 09:13 AM

DV,

I think you have me confused with Maxwell... Maxwell is correct- Raffle tickets have never been deductible.
Jim Maxwell probably has the correct IRS code that would apply.
I can try and call my accountant and get it in the meantime.-------------------
Just called and she will look it up...Her first impression was that if a dinner was included in the raffle or something of tangible value, that amount would be deducted from the total price of the raffle ticket and only the remaining amount would be deductible... I think she's wrong but she is looking it up for me...

Will e-mail you in regards to insurance for the car..
al schafer/casaleenie..

Double Venom · #96 (**permalink**) 01-07-2003, 04:16 PM

Still waiting for the call from CF...
Cranky, me thinks your right
RD, me thinks your right too!

Keith..that's the show!
Is it as big as they are telling me?
DV

KeithBrown · #97 (**permalink**) 01-08-2003, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Double Venom

Keith..that's the show!
Is it as big as they are telling me?
DV [/b]

DV,

It is huge! I have gone the last two and am planning on going back again this year! Basically they have cars all along the oval, with vendors and auctions occurring in the infield. The Olthoffs and Superformance are always well represented as their home is only a stones throw away. Of course being in the heart of NASCAR country and Holman-Moody also in Charlotte, there are a ton of Ford followers. I'll see if I can gather any factual attendence figures for you to gauge the actual size.

Just let me know how I can help. I would love to man a booth or help in anyway possible.

Best Regards,

Keith

KeithBrown · #98 (**permalink**) 01-08-2003, 08:19 AM

DV,

I have emailed Lowes for more information, but I did manage to get this information based on last years Fall show. Apparently FoodLion sponsors two shows per year. I would guess that the Spring show is as big as the Fall show, but will verify soon.

Anyway, you can read last Falls summary. Looks pretty big:

Reference:
http://www.lowesmotorspeedway.com/tr...ws/329960.html

Food Lion AutoFair Is Heaven

FROM AUTOFAIRS PAST: "Resto rods" everywhere

Sunday, September 15, 2002
If spending four days with 100,000 car enthusiasts seems like a bit of heaven on earth to you, then make plans now to be at Lowe's Motor Speedway September 12-15, 2002, for the Food Lion AutoFair.

Lowe's Motor Speedway's car shows are the largest of their kind in the Southeast, offering something to please all car enthusiasts, no matter their particular field of interest. The event encompasses four days of car shows, car corrals, parts vendors, a collector car auction and unusual attractions.

More than 30 clubs bring over 2,000 cars for display. The car corral, which is situated on the speedway's 1.5-mile oval, features more than 1,500 collector vehicles for sale. More than seven thousand vendor spaces guarantee you will break in a new pair of walking shoes by the time you visit them all. Tom Mack conducts collector car auctions at AutoFair, bringing hundreds of desirable vehicles to the block.

In years past, the Food Lion Pavilion has featured cars of special interest such as the GM prototype Firebird turbine-powered cars; Aircar flying car; the Dobbertin Surface Orbiter, a retired milk transport tank that was converted into an amphibious motor home; and a gold-plated Harley-Davidson motorcycle. Cars as beautiful as the Aquila roadster and as powerful as the Spirit of America land speed record attempt vehicle have made their East Coast debuts at the Food Lion AutoFair alongside the latest offerings from California customizers.

The Manufacturers' Midway, which takes place in the comfort of a 21,000-square-foot building, features demonstrations of new products from companies devoted to the preservation and enjoyment of collector cars.

With an admission charge of only $8 for adults and no charge for children 12 and under (when accompanied by an adult), AutoFair is a great value for family entertainment. AutoFair hours are Thursday-Saturday, 8 a.m. to 6 p.m.; Sunday 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. Parking is $5.

There are no advance ticket sales for the Food Lion AutoFair. Tickets are available only at the ticket office and selected gates.

*For flea market spaces, car corral spaces, or information on the Antique Automobile Club of America Regional Meet, call 704/841-1990.

*For information on the Tom Mack collector car auction, call 704/821-6225.

*For car club information, call 704/455-3205.

*For information on the Manufacturers' Midway, call 704/455-3203.

Regards,

Keith

KeithBrown · #99 (**permalink**) 01-08-2003, 12:32 PM

DV,

I got a response about the FoodLion show. It is twice as big in the spring - wow!

I sent you an email on this, please let me know if you received it. There could be a snag with regards to a raffle on their site.

Anyway - here is their response regarding the show details:

Our shows draw approximately 200,000 over the 4 days. We have any where from 7 to 8 thousands vendoers that particpate. Also, we have 45 to 50 car clubs that come and display their cars. If you are interested in purchasing a space you can contact Amy Kluttz, in our Sales and Marketing Department at 704-455-4373. Amy handles our Manufacture Midway, which in set up in the Winston Cup Garage, this midway is filled with companies who want to display their product. She could gave you additional information as far as cost goes.

We also have individuals/vendors who purchase a space the various fields on the inside and outside of the speedway. These venders can be saleing new or used car products. After speaking with Amy you find that what she has to offer isn't what you need you can contact the Hornets Nest (AACA), they handle all of the spaces that not in the Manufactures Midway, to purchase a spot with them call 704-841-1990.

I hope that this information is helpful, if you need any additional information please feel free to contact me.

Karen Davis
Events Department
704-455-3282

Regards,

Keith

Double Venom · #**100** (**permalink**) 01-09-2003, 05:38 AM

NEWS FLASH !!!!!!!!!

After a couple of days of research CF agrees with the comments regarding NON DEDUCTIBLE raffle tickets!

Tickets purchased for the raffle, even though they are going to CF and even though they are 501 C3 licensed are NOT deductible as a charitable donation. I want to thank everyone who brought this up, discussed it and laid it out on the table.

We got it right, thanks to your research and insistence!

DV..proven wrong once again! (CF is now changing the "wording" regarding donations across the country!)