Which Cobra 427 or FIA, Kirk. or SAI ?

[Lew Ledyard]

I would like to buy a Kirkham or Shelby shortly. I am leaning heavily toward a Kirkham. However, I am not sure which model: 427, FIA, coil-sprung FIA. I want the car for the twisty, hilly 8 mile drive to work. It will see very light small city traffic and mostly be used on rural roads. I don't care so much for boulevard presence, but am more concerned with handling and going and stopping fast - i.e driving fun.

Has anyone compared these cars? What are the pros and cons of each?

Thanks,

Lew

[Back in Black]

However, you will have a better twisty road type cobra..assuming you go with the original config (ladder frame, no power assist steering, etc...)

If you go with the 289 FIA and a small block. ..you can put a 351 or a stroker version of a 351 in there...You can also have a 427 STYLE cobra with the 351 block. Or an aluminum BB motor.

The possibilities are endless, but coilover or even fixed coil type suspension is always better than leaf, from what I understand.

Oh, and one more thing..the archives here are full of info..recommend you spend a month of your spare time and peruse them till you drop

[REAL 1]

Both are excellent (427 & 289 ). If you are doing mostly street driving and assuming you will be driving within the legal limits either car will suit your needs.

The 289 has more historical race history behind it while the 427 has more street presence and charisma (mojo, if you will).

The debate on which is "better" will go on forever (those SB guys just don't get it ) ).

Don't worry about a 427 handling the curves on your local roads. Read the recent Motor Trend article on the Shelby 427 and 289. Through the slalom course the 427 posted a quicker time than the 302 equipped 289 car. Motor Trend described the 427 as a big puttycat.

As to Kirkham or Shelby. You won't go wrong with either.

[David Kirkham]

Lew,

Glad to see you are interested in our company. We now have 2 FIA cars in stock with the leaf spring suspension and 1 of the FIA cars with a 427 suspension.

Both cars are a load of fun. The 427 suspension car will certainly handle better but will be more difficult to sell in the long run. All of the owners of our cars with 427 suspensions own original cars and wanted the great looks of the 289 and the great handling of the 427 cars.

Our FIA cars with the leaf spring are very rare. We have only made 38 of them and almost all of them were sold to Shelby. I think you would be very happy with a big block as well. I certainly enjoy driving them around town and especially on the back twisty roads.

The 289 cars will be significantly less expensive to finish as the engine is much cheaper.

Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.

David

[Lew Ledyard]

Are there any real differences between CSXs and Kirkhams?

[jamesson]

I think the Kirkhams have a nicer tags.

[Jamo]

Lew

I believe my sig pretty well sums it up.

[REAL 1]

There are some very minor differences in suspension components.

Other than that the aluminum Shelby's are the same car as the Kirkham. Analogous to when an AC was the same as the Shelby except for name.

The glass CSX does not have all the tubing as the original car or the aluminum CSX. It is missing the rear cowl tubing since it is not needed for the glass body.

Years ago AC was licensed to call their cars Cobras. Thus you had the AC Cobra and the Shelby Cobra. AC ,however, can no longer refer to their cars as "Cobras". Legal stuff.

Today the only car licensed to legally bear the Cobra name is the Shelby. Its also considered a genuine Cobra by SAAC and eligible to be listed in the SAAC Registry. The Kirkham cannot be referred to as a "Cobra" and is a "Cobra replica." Legal stuff again.

If you want a car that is legitmately and legally a REAL Cobra and can be placed in the registry the Shelby is the only choice. If you don't care about that stuff then the Kirkham is your choice.

All personal preference.

You already know which I would choose.

[Cal Metal]

Not wanting to burst anyone's bubble here, but someone told me that at SAAC 27 the 'real' CSX 4000 cars were not allowed in the group photo shoot with the other 'real' cars (CSX 2000/3000). This begs the question that there might be a difference in perception as to WHO is really considered part of the "club". 4000 owners have the Registry but that might be as far as it goes. I am not trying to start a controversy but it might be something to think about when considering the price differential between these two manufacturers.

[Jamo]

Not a controversy, Cal--fact. Several of us were getting ready to snap off some pics at the head of the originals group (I was panning the Flip Top at the time) when Lynn Parks, on top of the roof just above me, got on the loudspeaker and yelled out something to the effect of "get that 4000 outta there!". The 4000 owner then did a nice little burnout in reverse and skidattled.

[REAL 1]

No bubble bursted here. The photo shoot as I understand was for original cars only. 2000 & 3000 series. Clearly appropriate.

There clearly is a distinction between the original CSX's and the new CSX's. No one can argue with that. One series are the vintage Shelby's or "original" the others are not vintage nor original.

Its certainly understandable why owners of original cars want to maintain that distinction and limit membership to that truly limited and exclusive club. Originals are also much more expensive than the new CSX's. There clearly is a limited "Club" as to originals.

I think that keeping the distinction between the originals and the new CSX's is fair for many reasons.

SAAC while making the distinction between the original and new Cobras also clearly makes a distinction between "Cobras" both new and original and "Cobra replicas".

Its important to note that both the original CSX and the new CSX make the "cut" as far as being consider a REAL Cobra by SAAC (and legally). All the others don't.

This factor too might be considered when weighing the price differences.

One day in the near future there may be a limited photo shoot at SAAC for second generation Cobras only. No originals allowed!

Just a thought.

[Jamo]

If that 4000 photo shoot doesn't pan out, we'll let you scrape that damn CSX number off and join us in a Kirkham corral--there's an ORIGINAL Kirkham number lurking under there somewhere.

[agro1]

Originally posted by REAL 1



There clearly is a distinction between the original CSX's and the new CSX's. No one can argue with that. One series are the vintage Shelby's or "original" the others are not vintage nor original.


Just a thought. [/b]

So the WHY THE HELL would someone pay the extra $40K for something we all know is NOT "original" or "vintage" by any means ??? Just becasue some grumpy ol'fart puts his name on it ?? Ever hear of law of diminishing returns guys ???

[Cal Metal]

Good points by everyone and I appreciate the fact that this discussion didn't take on any unnecessary hositility. Hopefully, we have given Lew some points to ponder in making his decision.

[agro1]

Lew - My pointer would be this, get an SPF or ERA - Save $40K, spend $20K setting it up and making it the meanest, best handling Cobra out there and with the other $20k - ship it to Europe in August and spend a month driving it around the French, Spanish and Italian Riveria's - then have it shipped back...Now THAT would be the most kick ass trip you could ever take...

Actually now that I think about it, a COMPLETED SAI CSX4000 will come out to around $115K and at $65 for the nicest SPF COMPLETED you actually save about $50K...

[Specialk]

agro1,

I know of a builder here in Vegas that will build a complete turnkey fiberglass 4000 car in the $85k range.

[agro1]

Specialk

Agreed - you CAN find someone to build it for less, or do it yourself...Fact of the matter is you are spending an extra $20k approx for something we all agree is neither original nor vintage...But neither is a glass SPF - is it really worth it is the point here...How much are you willing to spend to be on a "Shelby registry" and have Lynn Park yell at you to move your car cause it ain't original ?? But then again it's all a question of degress of excess - how excessive does one need to be ? I'd rather be excessive on my hp and motor rather than other peoples idea of "exclusivity"...

[Lew Ledyard]

Thanks for the replies, they have been very helpful. My concern was more one of originality rather than pedigree. There is a difference. I would like a car that looks, feels and drives like an original. I want vintage details and an aluminum body, just like the original: a dead accurate copy, that might have a little better build and metalurgy quality. I am not so concerned with a pedigree, a piece of paper or a tin badge that has a particular name.

Lew

[agro1]

Lew - You've got ecpensive taste...You won't go wrong with either the SAI or the KMP - I totally agree with you, I'd love to have an aluminum Cobra as well...Take care and good luck.

[REAL 1]

The same grumpy fart that put his name on the AC's to make them Shelby Cobras in the 60's is the same grumpy fart that puts his name on the current CSX to make the new Shelby Cobra. Just in case you forgot.

Why spend the money difference for a CSX as opposed to a SPF?

Simple. One is a very nice replica of a Cobra (the SPF). The other is a Cobra. Period. You get what you pay for. REAL Shelby Cobras, new or old can be expected to be more expensive then pretend Shelby Cobras.

Oh. I've seen SPF also go for around $70K new from dealers. Seems like alot for a SPF.

I'd rather go the difference and buy a Kirkham or a glass CSX.

Lew: If the name, registry and pedigree aren't important to you (and to some they aren't) then get the Kirkham. Its the best alternative to a Shelby IMHO and fits your requirements perfectly.