New name for Replicas by Barrett Jackson

[Scott Smith]

Jamo & rdorman:

Shelby didn't need decades of auto production to build his reputation. In fact, he wasn't even trying to build a reputation. His deeds on and off the track did that. That's part of what makes him "Ole Shel." Public be damned, he did it for himself and his team.

I don't think for a moment that the kit cars have helped Shelby even today. The folks buying Shelby's current cars were probably well aware of Cobras (or perhaps more likely AC Bristols) from way back when. Or they truly respect the man from reading of his exploits.

The attraction of the CSX 4 series is that they are in fact Shelbys, and folks are willing to pay for that (branding, see Marketing 401); knowing full well the price of originals is either out of financial reach, or unrealistic if one plans to drive and enjoy the car to it's fullest - chips, dings, etc. The real satisfaction comes from knowing you're driving and savoring a true legend; not from the envious glares of those left in your dust. I suspect that is true of 99% of Shelby's customers. Certainly there are far more poseurs buying Porsches, Ferraris, and yes, Cobra replicas, than real Shelbys.

I didn't buy my car to impress anyone but myself. I don't show my car. Hell, I try not to ever stop long enough to even discuss the car with people, unless they're at the gas station while I refuel. Frankly, I suspect most assume it's a kit. I just don't give a damn what they think, unless they show genuine interest.
Callous? No. I want to spend my time driving, not trying to educate the "great unwashed."

Let 'em go to car shows.

Scott

[rdorman]

My answers:

1. Got a 'mid-block' so don't care
2. Mine for me at this time
3. I like the one with the interchangable bits that even work as a nut driver in a pinch
4. The correct one for the application
5. The ones that fit correctly and are strong/light enough for intended use.

Man what fun can be had in this group!

[Jamo]

Roscoe

You forgot...

1. Charmin vs. anything else

[Trans-Am Jim]

Although I have remained out of these arguments for the 3 years I've been a CC member, Evan's question did set me to thinking.

If CS had protected his rights early on and there had there been no Cobra replica industry, I offer up two scenarios for discussion:

1.) The car ends up with a huge cult following, and prices become astronomical for those eventually offered for sale. Prices reaching Ferrari 250 GTO levels. We are left with the 400 or so 60's originals.

2.) At the peak of the Kollector Kar Kraze in the late 80's, CS authorizes a few dozen clones (ala Cunningham) to be built, and the bidding is on!. The gene pool becomes slightly diluted.
____________
Jimbo

[rdorman]

You opinion on whether the replica car industry has helped, hurt or had zero effect on SAI. I repsect that. I am just doing the same, stating my opinion. Like I said, we can not prove it one way or the other. I am just looking forward to spring, to getting together with my cobra brothers and sisters, of all make and models, and having some fun. See you at the Fling!

[Jason Lee Nye]

Isn’t there a correlation between popularity and value going up? The replica industry had kept the public interested and raised the popularity then would it not help feed the value of the “real ones” going up. I am curious if one compares the spike in the value of the “real Cobras” in the past 20 years compared to the growing number of replica owners in the last 20 years, what will they find. If there had not been 60,000 replicas floating around I wonder if the popularity of the Cobra would be diminished. If so, do you really think the Cobras would be getting the prices they would be getting now?

I believe growing popularity = more demand for the real deal. Since only a handful of the real deal exists and the popularity is ever growing from seeing those Tupperware Factory 5’s and other replicas all over the road = the value of the real ones going up higher and higher with the popularity fueled by the replica industry.

It is typical of a real Cobra owner to dismiss and ignore the contributions of the replica industry to the rising value of his Cobra . A simple thank you would be sufficient for me.

And if you are appalled by such thinking then I think I made my case. I like the Cunningham comparison. I about laughed at the prices they were asking for these cars. With no popularity that creates demand they will not be selling to many Real Ones. Talk about ego and unrealistic view of a product!

So I say back, “Your welcome”

[Jamo]

Scott

Geez--nobody accused you of being like Evan (who actually drives the he!! out of his car--truth be known).

Are there folks that would know of Shelby without the replicas? Most certainly. Again, many folks know about Briggs Cunningham and the first "modern" American independent assualt on European sports car racing. But that would be a much smaller number than it is now--and mostly from our generation.

Many (most?) of the CSX buyers are buying the dreams of their youth, but many are buying them because they are at once popular and yet still unique compared to other extreme cars--and generally less expensive than the exotica that come come close to its performance. Think what you will--the popularity still owes a great deal to the replica industry that kept the dream alive. At least I hope so--otherwise, we would have to tip our hats to the Shelby Chargers, et al. There are a lot of younger folks (comparatively speaking) buying CSXs and other mfgs that simply weren't old enough to remember the 60s.

Before jumping to Marketing 401, you might want to recall some basics from Marketing 101: A demand must exist in the first instance.

[Jason Lee Nye]

Thank you Jamo

Of course when I speak on this topic, I speak with sarcasm and it is a shame that some think I am actually serious.

My sense of humor goes unappreciated just like my Factory 5.

Life is too short to be too serious about this. I am just 1% serious and 99% just having fun with the situation and people’s feelings.

[xlr8or]

I think if nothing else the replica market increased the customer base for the current Shelby offerings.
Popularity has a strange way of adding to sales figures. It's the band wagon effect in action here. As the replica's get more popular and sales increase there will be more people moving up to the top line levels such as Shelby and Kirkham.
As stated elsewhere these are just hot rods that look like Cobras and the more popular models of hot rods command higher prices. Look at the 32 Ford Roadster as an example.. It is one of the most popular street rods out there and the "replica" parts tend to cost a 15 30% more then parts for a '34.

[Todd Hedges]

I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's send a CSX to CHINA.
I heard they are cloning Panda Bears to keep from going extinct, let's send a few Shelby parts for proper DNA extraction then it's COBRAS for EVERYONE!!!!!!!

I see the Originals as a very expensive bottle of Wine.
(This coming from someone who doesn't drink.)
You can open the bottle and sip a little here and there.
Eventually the wine will be used up just like a $10 bottle.
Maybe good memories, maybe bad but still just memories.

I like grape juice `cause I can drink a lot of it nice and fast usually in a rubbermaid cup.
That's why I own an ERA.

[REAL 1]

I think we need to look why the Cobra replica market began first. They copied one of the most notable and reveered American race cars/muscle cars of all time. They saw a market for replicas for the Cobra. Why? Because of what the Cobra was, is and accomplished. Because of Shelby and his place as an automotive icon and the inseparable connection between the Cobra and Shelby.

The replica market took off not because of the "replica" market but becasue of what they were copying. If they were copying a VW beetle would the replica industry have the same success?How about the Yugo? No. I don't think so.

No. They were copying Cobras. The Superman of muscle cars.

I tend to think (and we are all speculating) that if Shelby brought back the Cobra first before all the replicators got going the CSX would be very popular regardless and would sell well. Why. Because of the legend and popularity of the "Cobra".

There are also many cars that have tremendous collector value without replicas. GT350s, various Ferraris, Daytona Coupes etc..

So, while I believe the replica industry did promote enthusiasm for the car and help keep the "flame" going for the Cobra I tend to think the Cobra would have done fine without the replica industry.

Also, one final point. While we may be appreciative to the replica industry for helping to preserve the presence of the Cobra in the general public mind lets not forget that wasn't the purpose the replica industry began copying the Cobra. The reason was ...MONEY. That is the common demoninator both the replica industry and Shelby both have a common interest in by manufacturing and selling cars.

Jason: You are wrong about the FFR5. I appreciate them. I have seen many that have been beautifully finished. They are a nice car when completedly properly. In fact if I had more spare time a FFR5 spec racer would be my choice for club racing.

[Jamo]

Assolutely on your last statement Evan.

I agree re the CSXs would've done fine on their own--but how well would've depended on when Shelby would have brought them out. Lots of what-ifs, but that's the appeal of such a discussion. Obviously, the 70s might work, if he kept the cost down--but safety and pollution BS were running rampent. Note the strength and side door beams of the Arntz. The 80s and the height of the stock money would've been the time to hit it in my marketing crystal ball. The CSX 4000/7000 formula, not the 3000 approach, would be the way to do it. Course, that might have meant no Viper for the masses if he was still tied to Ford running gear. Also, I'd like to thank Reagan for making that Polish Mig factory available...

I think I've said my piece re Ferrari's continued production maintaining interest--but some individual cars of that line were even helped by replicas. The music and style of Miami Vice were great--but nothing made Phil Collins "sound" better than watching the Daytona of the first season hauling butt on city streets. Course--Ferrari "donated" the TR so they would stop using the rebodied Corvette, but it was Daytona enough for those of us who loved them during their heyday. And thank gawd that was a replica 250 that ate the big one in Ferris Bueler's Day Off.

Obviously, the Man and the Car created the aura--we might recall the Cheetah but who made it? Lance was the make-up heir--right?--but would he ever have brought a car to the streets had he lived? And can we forgive Briggs for "le Monster"? But sometimes the stars line up just right and you get the two together--Shelby and the Cobra=COBRA.

[casaleenie]

I love my little car.... If the replicas and the originals were priced the same, dollar for dollar, I don't know if I would trade mine off for an original. I guess if the history of a car was a factor then possibly I'd do a even-up trade. (the owner of the original may even have to throw in a few bucks to make it happen, his being an old car and all). Bottom line is- I'm very happy with that little car!
anyway,
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it....

[Roscoe]

The best Phillips Screwdriver is an original Phillips Screwdriver!

Henry F. Phillips invented both the screw and the driver that bear his name. The Oregon businessman patented two versions of a fastening device for crosshead screws in 1934 and 1936. Phillips intended the screw for use with automatic screwdrivers and marketed it for mass-production industries such as auto manufacturing.

The Phillips screw can be driven with more torque and holds better than slotted screws. The Phillips system is also self-centering. If you press the tip of the screwdriver against the screw head, it takes only a little wiggling to seat it properly. The speed with which Phillips screws can be used was crucial to the auto assembly line. In addition, Phillips screws are almost impossible to over screw, which was also very important for industry.

Phillips persuaded the American Screw Company to manufacture his screw design, and the company convinced General Motors to use the screw on the 1936 Cadillac. By 1940, most American automakers used Phillips screws. When the U.S. needed to crank out jeeps and tanks for World War II, Phillips screws were an essential component in the war effort.

Interestingly enough, Phillips was not the first to improve on the old slotted screw. In 1908, Canadian Peter L. Robertson invented a square-head screw. The Robertson screw was the first recess-drive fastener that was practical for mass production. It had all the advantages of the Phillips, but Robertson was unable to get it used by American industries. This screw is standard in Canada and is favored by woodworkers on both sides of the border.

[REAL 1]

Had I know all that I would have insisted on a REAL Phillips screw driver when I bought mine at True Value!

I want a REAL Phillips!

[southernfriedcj]

Originally posted by Roscoe


The Robertson screw was the first recess-drive fastener that was practical for mass production. It had all the advantages of the Phillips, but Robertson was unable to get it used by American industries.

Sounds like Robertson got screwed.

[Jamo]

southernfriedpimp

That was so cheap, so easy, so dirty...

Excellent.

[southernfriedcj]

ToeJamo, I does what I cans.

[B. SMITH]

I AGREE WITH JASON,

THE REPLICA INDUSTRY HAS BENEFITED THE "REAL" SHELBY COBRA IMEASURABLY.
THE FREE EXPOSURE TO THE COBRA IMAGE THROUGH PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE, CONTACT AND GENERAL EXCITEMENT EXPANDED THE BUYER UNIVERSE FOR ALL COBRAS BY HUGE MULTIPLES.
SHELBY DID NOT TAKE ATVANTAGE OF THIS AND HE HAS COMPLAINED BUT HE HAS SEEN HIS PRODUCT KEPT ALIVE.
THE CUSTOMER UNIVERSE WAS EXPANDED BY THE REPLICAS AND THOSE OWNERS MIGRATE IN GREATER NUMBERS, UPWARD TO MORE AUTHENTIC AND COSTLY EXAMPLES.
FOR DECADES THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY HAS PRODUCED LESSER MODELS TO CREATE A POOL OF OWNERS THAT MOVE TO THE HIGHLY OPTIONED, EXPENSIVE AND EVEN COLLECTABLE VEHICLES.
THIS IS "MARKETING 101" FOR MANY PRODUCTS WORLDWIDE.

MORE IS BETTER, B. SMITH

[Anthony]

Just some thoughts.

I think the cobra replica market started because of the extremely high demand of many people to own a cobra, mainly 427 cobra, of which only 350 were built. Even back in the 70's, the 427 cobra's were collector cars, and were relatively expensive when compared to other collector cars such as vettes, such that the 427 cobra's were selling for more as a used car than what they sold for in the 60's as new cars. They have always been relatively expensive compared to other cars. People could build, own a replica cheaper than owning an original, even in the 70's. High demand stimulated multiple manufacturers.

I believe SAI would never have developed/sold CSX4000 cars if it were not for the replica market. I think it was the huge market that got the attention of SAI and encouraged them to come out with the CSX4000 and 7000 cars.

I think that the development of the CSX7000 and Kirkham FIA cars have driven up the price of CSX2000 cars in the last several years, as CSX7000 and Kirkham cars are up towards $100 K, and CSX2000 cars used to be in the low $100 K area. Lately, I've been seeing them in the upper $100 K range. Structurally, the CSX7000 cars are virtually identical to the CSX2000 cars, but without the historical significance. Contrary, to that, CSX3000 cars I think have been stable in the upper $ 200 K and lower $ 300 K range, for nice cars, as the cost of a CSX4000 car or Kirkham SC have never come close to the cost of an original.