ERA vs SPF

[frankym]

just curious, there is so much talk about authenticity, everyone seems to overlook the fact that both ERA and SPF use frames that are absolutely nothing like the original. One look underneath the hood or from underneath reveals that they do NOT have tubular construction and the design is antithetical to the original. Both ERA and SPF earn very high marks for being period correct in every place it matters and both deviate from authenticity only to make a better car, utilizing current techonolgies and more attention to aesthetics. The ERA roll bar is unquestionably spot on with the original, the SPF roll bar deviates a little in height and geometry, but not enough to diminish even infinitesimally the finer points of its quality of design and workmanship. I also think the rear of the ERA sits a little more squat which is more authentic (and looks awesome!!) but considering that most of these cars are intended for street use, lower can be impractical. Both are great cars, and no offense to people that choose to finish the ERA beyond the body mounting, but to me, the value of the home finished car is far less than the new briton assembled vehicle, not stating opinion here, it's just a matter of fact that a factory produced vehicle will be done with the benefit of collectively hundreds of years of experience and for the average joe that's very handy, assembling a vehicle with excessive power can be a recipe for disaster. In all the 100s of connections that get fastened, welded, fused, bridged, configured etc.,, or otherwise, the liklihood of the casual builder making some less than perfect decisions is much higher. I hope nobody gets offended, both SPF and ERA are super high quality cars and works of art, the biggest difference is in the consistancy (overall number of finished ERAs and SPFs) and SPFs are all built the same. As far as customization is concerned, there should be none, the best looking replica is one that accurately duplicates, so having any unique features runs against the grain of striving for authenticity, yet I hear many people saying that ERA is more authentic, and at the same time bears more of its owners' imprimaturs. A properly finished ERA and SPF are both top notch, it's important to be objective, doing so should avoid any conflicts between the two owner groups. The buyer of any of these cars also needs to be objective, consider facts, logic and recognize opinion when you hear it.

frankym, ERA and SPF are the best of their kind

[John A. Simpson]

I see a lot of discussion about looks, but is any body interested in having a Cobra under the skin? As far as I can tell only Shelby, Kirkham, and the replicas from Cambridge Auto Racing have authentic Cobra suspensions and Chassis. To me a 2X4 rectangular frame and a rear suspension that uses the half shaft as a load-bearing suspension member is not Cobra!

Something I forgot to mention before is the aluminum interior, with fiberglass footboxes that are identical to the real deal. From what I can gather everything except the fiberglass body will exchange with a Cobra, and I guess the body would interchange with the fiberglass ones.

Has anyone else looked at their site ?www.Cambrigeautoracing.com

[G.R.]

From what I've read and gathered here from information regarding the original CSX, the newer tubular frames are thicker walled w/ more reinforcement at points that were subject to failure. Not strictly "Real Cobra". Probably more "Cobra correct".
But in the scheme of things "who the heck cares", whether it uses a tubular frame or a rectangular frame--it isn't going to be a "original Cobra, made in the 60's' ".

One can nitpick all they want but the "Cobra " you drive still gets more attention than most any other vehicle on the road, "correct" body, frame, tailights, scoops, windsheild wiper parking, engine, wheels/tires, and even (sorry Evan)hood rivets--not withstanding

you have a good one ,today

[Ray R]

Well, I spent the day with Dennis at Dynamic Motorsports yesterday in Reno. They had a really nice operation with very knowledgeable folks. And REALLY NICE cars. I must say I was pretty impressed with the SPF design and execution. I got to ride in both big block and small block cars. I thought I wanted a big block until I was able to ride and examine a small block car. I'm now leaning toward 351 stroker ...lighter ...easier maintenance (spark plugs, etc) ....easier fit ....hp capabilities ....parts availability ...etc. The SPF drove with no rattles, no torque steer - even the big block (514ci 650hp), decent ride quality, great handling....I'm sure the same characteristics as an ERA.

At this point, I'm still undecided whether to go ERA or SPF. I know the wait for ERA is long, but that doesn't bother me. I'm in no hurry. I'm leaning toward SPF due to the $10-15k difference in build price. The ERA is a bit more authentic, but as the posts above state, no matter how "authentic" you get, it will always be a replica. And since I'm also leaning toward the 351W small block...well...there goes any chance at authenticity out the window!

Again, if someone could quantify the $10-15k build cost difference for me.......I understand "why" the price is different...hand built in America vs factory built in South Africa...both are top notch quality cars, so where and how they're built doesn't seem relevant since quality is so similar as far as I can tell. I guess I'm looking for someone to help me with where the $10-15k value is in the ERA. If you get $10-15k more in resale, which it looks like that's what folks are asking, then the cost of ownership, as far as resale goes, is a wash.

Maybe I should just wait for the best "deal" on a pre-owned car?

Another question: What experience have you folks had with financing these cars? What's the process?

Again, this thread has been great! And I hope others in the future will find it as valuable as I have! Keep those thoughts and comments coming!

[Excaliber]

Financing? Easy, I simply mortgaged the house and paid cash, ha ha. Tax credits on your Cobra payments,,,,that is sweet!

Ernie

[sparks]

Just got my SPF a couple wks. ago....Tita./blue str. .Had a custom 460 put in . 555hp/565tq. . Let me tell you that its a handfull. It is a tight fit but it looks great. Eric at performance eng. in ross ohio did my motor.He also builds a 351(not stroked)with about 460hp/trans and install for around 14k . That BB sure has a great sound.......BUT HANG ON
As far as the cars fit,finish and quality,could'nt be happier.90% of the people would not no if was real or not. Is one better than the other,no.......One might have some more similarities than the other but thats it.....I would take the $$ saved and buy a H.D....

Sparks

[jhein]

I would get the SPF, take the extra $$ and buy a nice Featherlite hauler to pull it and a install a lift in your garage to work on it!! You'll be all set.

As far as financing is concerned, you'll probably have a hard time finding someone to do it and if you do the rates will probably stink. I like the idea someone else had about taking morgage on the house. Rates are low now and the interest is deductable. If you had finance that'd be the way to go.

John
spf1421

[REAL 1]

I'm not so sure the difference between a BB ERA and BB SPF will buy you a Featherlight trailer. They are fairly pricey.

I've seen used SPF's in the range of $47K to $55K. The difference in price for the ERA is insignificant considering the total expenditure.

As to the chasis both being square tube. So what? You can't tell they have square tube chasis by looking at the cars unless you look underneath or down in the engine compartment.

Aesthetically both in the finer details and demensions the ERA is spot on except for chasis and suspension which is not immediately visable.

While the SPF appears correct in all its dimensions to the casual observer or John Q Public, for those that have a more "expert" eye they are clearly off dimensionally in several areas. To people who know what they are looking at like us Cobra nuts the ERA is more aesthetically accurate in all its dimensions. No question.

The only downside to the ERA is the wait for a new car. SPF is clearly better for those that don't want to wait.

In the end both are very nice cars and I would happily own either.

[frankym]

looks like a pretty good deal, anyone know this car or have any thoughts on why somebody else on this forum is asking 65k for almost the very same car while this guy is asking only 47k?? Usually things are priced a certain way for a reason, anyone care to guess if this car is appropriately priced or is he unaware of how much these cost to replace, or is this really just a grossly misrepresented car?


For Sale: ERA 427SC #404. Dark green w/o stripes. Black Connolly leather seats with wool carpets. No rollbar. No hood scoop. Street dash with Smiths gauges, correct knobs on the switches and glovebox. 4-pt. racing harness for driver and passenger seats. Tonneau cover and convertible top. Wing windows and tinted sun visors. Rectangular taillights. Carpeted trunk. Will supply an ERA rollbar and template if you prefer. All the frame-mounting points are already there. Complete chromed bumpers. 427 sideoiler with steel crank, LeMans rods, low-riser heads and intake with twin 4V Holleys. MSD ignition with rev. limiter and dual-point distributor. Aviaid high-capacity aluminum oil pan. Oil cooler with steel braided lines. Assembled by Jim Carlson of Niagara Motorsports. Have complete spec sheet for your review. Jet Hot Coated headers & black sidepipes. Large spline toploader, 3:54 Jag rear with inboard brakes, Spax coilovers, pin drive wheels with wired knockoff hub nut. Best of everything used, as this 427SC was completely assembled by the professionals at ERA. Delivered turnkey, ready to drive. Done right, no excuses, subtle but can be very loud and very fast. Has 4,100 miles. Had oil service, fresh tune and valve adjustment 100 miles ago. Email for more information and pictures. Price is a very reasonable $47,500. If you have looked at the ERA website and looked at other ERA 427SCs, this 427 sideoiler version is everything you would want at the right price. Contact the owner Bill Kraft at (800)387-5397 ext 20 days, and (716)553-0989 at most other times. Email: BillK@Kraftwerks.net
Lockport, New York
28 January

[Chaplin]

I also saw that ad for ERA 404. Seems to go to be true. If it is legit and there are no problems with it, it won't last long. . . Too bad he didn't post any pictures of it on cobracountry

[Jeff Frigo]

I’ve been holding back on this one, but I can't resist anymore. There is one big difference between the two cars:

Nearly all of the money spent on the ERA comes from and stays here in the states. Well over half of the money that goes into an SPF goes back to South Africa.

I know there are a lot of things that can't be bought from the US, but when I get a chance, I would rather support our country than somebody else’s country, especially ones that are subsidized by their government.

I do believe in the World Economy, but only when it is conducted on a level playing field. Won't be long before we see cars (not Cobras I hope) coming out of China.

Let the flames begin!!

[decooney]

a quick guess on ERA 404 pricing would be...

1) its a street version, a bit different than an SC version. Attracts a slightly different crowd of buyers and interest. Still very cool though in my book.

2) some people choose to price their Cobras fair and realisiticly in today's market and economy (possibly a motivated seller?) Usable cash is king "today", not one year from now or never.

Someone said it, "its low" and we're talking about it, which is good for the seller. Looks like the owner's strategy worked. IMHO Someone who is looking for this type of Cobra will get a nice car for the money if all mechanicals and the build quality checks out OK.

[Excaliber]

Price! Your suggestion that somehow there is a "tie" bewteen price and quality often does fit in the Cobra world. Some are ridiculously high priced, others APPEAR to be a "good buy". SPF and ERA prices do seem pretty steady compared to others.

"Street" car setup, yeah, I can see that lowering the price somewhat. Smaller pool of buyers, might be a good buy for someone looking for that. Not for me, I want the S/C look all the way, as I suspect most of us do. While I still admire that street look!

That Cobra in Hawaii listed on CobraCountry,,,,,,,,in my opinion,,,,,will never bring near that asking price from someone who has even a little knowledge of Cobras. A recent sale of a Hi-Tech car here, which was NOT in great shape sold quickly in the low $40's. Now THAT surprised me, so what do I know!

Ernie

[Buzz]

$47.5K is a decent price for a good sideoiler equipped ERA. Even though it's a street version, the seller is willing to include a roll bar w/template and adding quick jacks & sidepipes wouldn't cost much. Many SC type replicas (and probably a few converted originals) have the street style dash so that shouldn't be a deterrent.

[frankym]

about the comment about dollars diverted from US to SA: First off, the reality is that ERA operates beyond it's capacity with excess demand not capable of being fulfilled by ERA. So until ERA expands capacity to a point where they have cars unsold, there is no dollar being diverted away from America. Secondly, taxes paid on the purchase of either car are paid to our state governments (if owned and registered in the US). A significant portion of both cars prices reside in the drivetrains which always bring in US workers and craftmen. Thirdly, ERAs and SPFs are high end cars, and do not have substitutes in other US manufactured cobra replicas. This is fact, there are 3 or more tiers of quality, price etc for every manufactured goods. Toyota isn't selling cars to people that are considering a BMW 740, since ERA and SPF are near perfect substitutes, the purchase of an SPF doesn't sacrifice the sale of another make of cobra.

In many cases, a Honda accord purchased here in the US employs more US man hours than many US cars, so buying American isn't what it once was, this is truly a global economy. All for keeping jobs within the US, but in order for a free market economy, there has to be free and unrestrained trade with other nations. There are benefits to specialization and if a country posesses a peculiar and unique skill or process, it is more profitably for that country and a lot cheaper for other nations to outsource making for a greater good. If we can't be competitive, we do a disservice to free trade by creating subsidies for inefficiency. Maybe a little tangential but thought it was worth considering, just my 0.02 cents, all that it is.

[Mark IV]

If this is the car I think it is, it was originally owned by Jim Wright and it is SUPERB!

A fabulous street type Cobra, very well done and detailed. The car is as close to a "stealth sleeper" as a Cobra can be.

VERY well worth the money asked, in fact guys THIS IS A SCREAMIN" DEAL!!!!!!!!

Rick

[Turk]

There is a lot more difference betweeen the two cars than to simply dismiss it as "$10-$15K more, and a bit more authentic".

Most ERA's are powered by a 427 and support a show quality finish. People planning on doing a backyard paint job, normally do not buy an ERA.

If you were to install a 427 Side Oiler in both cars the price difference would not be $15K.

Frankly I have not seen a poorly finished ERA. That is not to say there are not any, just that, I haven't seen one.

As for SPF, they are pretty much finished the same way. Good Finish. The two cars are different in fit and finish. Neither are bad, nor are they perfect.
There is really a little more than that meets the eye.
There is a reason why ERA has a long wait. They don't feel they can crank up the production without loosing some of what makes that car what it is.

A I have friends who own SPFs and have seen them close up, I can't find anything bad to say about the car for what you pay for it. Heck of a buy....but I am afraid it is no ERA.

I have ridden in Toyotas, they are great. Are they Lexus'es?
How to say ERA is better without putting down SPF is tough to do.

Let me try this. If the two cars were the same price and neither had a long wait, and cost the same....which one would you prefer?

In my case the wait wasn't what it is today, I chose the ERA.

TURK

[Allan A]

TURK

Let me look in my ball, I see a an ERA in your future

[Turk]

Yes THERE is!!

TURK

[BANDIT 1]

I think the one thing Turk and others are not thinking about is that the ERA and the Superformance Cobra's are made for two very different reasons. Everyone gets caught up in this "original" thing, they make the assumption that everyone wants a "original" Cobra or a exact "replica".

Let's look at some facts about the "original" 427 S/C Cobra...

1. The legacy to most people is not that the Cobra won every race it ever entered, the legacy is that every year up until the mid 1980's when a magazine made a list of the "Fastest Production Cars", the Cobra was always number one! (12.2 1/4 mile @ 118 mph/ 0-100-0 13.2 seconds)

2. The car is awesome looking (men respect it and women love it)!

3. A "original" Cobra is very expensive.

4. As legend goes the 427 S/C Cobra is a deathtrap, the race car drivers didn't even want to sit in the car. While some of this is contributed to the tire technology of the day, the rest is the 1960's Chassis design.

ERA COBRA:

I think some people have "hit the nail on the head" when they say that the ERA is the most authentic Cobra replica/kit car made (The Kirkham and Shelby "continuation Cobra's" are exact also...). They have kept to the original lines right down to the 485 - 500 Horsepower FE engined 427 S.O engine and fans in the grill. My only reasoning for not going with a ERA Cobra was very simple, most owners that I have met have 500 horsepower 427 S.O. 4 speed cars running in the low 12's with street tires (just like the originals). I also have seen some ERA's that the owners have as much money in them as the Shelby "Continuation Cobra" prices. If I was going to spend that much on a "exact replica", I would probably buy a used "Continuation Shelby Cobra" (or one of the "authorized" Kirkham Cobra's).

SUPERFORMANCE COBRA:

The Superformance Cobra's are built to be a "modern day" Cobra.
They use a race tested chassis and use all new parts. While the Superformance Cobra's don't look exactly like the original, that was never there intention (or else they would have the fans up front, etc...). While Superformance wanted there cars to look "close" to original looking, they didn't mind slight changes. With dealerships like the Olthoffs the Superformance cars get "raced" to the limit. Because of this heavy testing, Superformance comes out with many different upgrades (suspension, shocks, etc...) to make the cars even more faster and stable. I didn't need my car to be 100% exact, after all my Cobra has "modern" American Racing wheels on it. I think if someone wanted a Superformance Cobra to look "original" (to 99% of the people), all they would have to do is have the front fans installed and the car lowered. I felt that when I was done with my Cobra it would have atleast 650 horsepower (1,000 horsepower soon... Nitrous/supercharger). That is why I didn't buy a "continuation Shelby Cobra" or a Kirkham. If the Shelby and Kirkham Cobra's are almost 100% identical to the originals and with 500 horsepower the race car drivers of that era were afraid to drive these cars, what makes me think I can handle a "original style car" with 650 + horsepower? My Superformance Cobra with a 650 horsepower 520 c.i. Big Block drives as easily and predictable as any modern supercar (and that is with no traction control or any other modern systems).

It really comes down to this...

If you want a awesome looking "original" looking Cobra then the ERA is a no brainer!

If you want one of the fastest Cobra's (and live to tell about it), you go with a Superformance Cobra's. Ask the road racers which they prefer, a 427 FE powered 500 horsepower ERA Cobra or a "Stroker" 351 500 horsepower Superformance Cobra. Ask any Drag racer if they would rather have a 427 FE powered 500 horsepower FE Cobra or a 514+ c.i. "stroker" 600+ horsepower Superformance Cobra, the Superformance Cobra is the no brainer.

I had a 427 S.O. in my 1969 Mach 1, while it was a awesome engine, the 429/460 engine is much better than any 427 FE engine, Genesis Block, etc...

P.S. I tried to stay out of this one, however everyone is acting like ERA and Superformance set out to build the same "style" of a Cobra replica. The answer is they are both great at what they were designed to do...