What is a "hot rod"?

[Carroll DeWeese]

Exactly what is a "hot rod" ? Even since I was a kid I have heard the term used but I was never sure exactly what it means. Many times it refers to a car that someone has modified by putting a bigger than normal engine in it. Sometime it is used to refer to factory cars. What does it mean in what context?

Is a Cobra a "hot rod" -- either as a replica or an original? Or is it some other form of a powerful, fast, classic car? What differences exist between a "hot rod" and a "street rod"?

I would appreciate some definitons, explanations, and how the terms apply to Cobras.

[Ron61]

The official Webster defination is an older car stripped of uneeded parts and modified for great acceleration and speed. I don't know how this manages to cover a lot of cars that I see called Hot Rods and really don't see how the Cobras would fit under the so called official defination. I talked to a man that I know who is even older than I and he has been a car nut all his life. He considers most of todays hot rods as just fakes using the name. He said their Hot Rods were more of the no fender and nothing that wasn't needed to make the car run type. Also any motor or drive train combination that they thought woulod make them go faster.

Ron

[computerworks]

The phrase 'Hot Rod' has no strict definition although the main aims of 'Hot Rodding' are to make your car bigger, faster, lower and all together more obvious.

Some define Hot Rod as any car modified by the owner to make it go faster.

(from The Rod Journal - Bill Alexander)
"The National Street Rod Association defines a street rod by it's year of manufacture, including in their definition only those cars whose original manufacture was prior to 1949. This definition, based partly on the "fat fender" design of cars built prior to 1949 as opposed to the "shoebox" design which followed, has served our hobby well and has been generally adherred to for well over twenty years. In spite of that, I believe it's time to consider changing the definition to include cars up to 1958. Here's why I feel the way I do:

Most people are aware that the cars we now consider to be "street rods" were orginally called Hot Rods. This name came from the act of modifying cars for greater performance, often through engine modifications and engine swaps. The main idea was to go faster, increase maximum rpm's and horsepower, keep those (engine) rods hot. Street racing led to more formalized and much safer drag racing off the highways. Competition on the drag strips and the quest for higher and higher speeds brought with it huge engine displacements and severe rear end ratios, neither of which were conducive to pleasant or cost efficient highway driving. As a result, many rodders Hot Rods became specialized vehicles which were seldom driven for pleasure, but used predominantly on the drag strips.

The late sixties and early seventies saw a movement toward driving the cars once again. This movement, fueled in part by Rod and Custom magazine and the establishment of the first Street Rod Nationals get-togethers sponsored by that magazine, encouraged Hot Rodder's to become Street Rodders, and to use their cars for more than drag racing. Changing the term from Hot Rodder to Street Rodder removed some of the negative connotations brought about from rodding's early history of street racing, and as the term was picked up and used by the National Street Rodding Association, it became a part of our hobby's language.

When this term began to become widely used a 1940 Ford was about thirty years old. The fat fendered cars were more widely available at that time than were the earlier models which had generally been considered the classics of Hot Rodding, the Model A and Model B Fords. Available at reasonable prices, rodder's snapped them up and became modifying them, performing the same engine swaps and making the same kinds of interior improvements that had been made on earlier models in past times. Their popularity necessitated the inclusion of them in the definition of "street rod" at the time.

That was all almost thirty years ago, and the fat fendered cars have now become just as rare as were the A models and B models in the sixties. Rodders have turned now to the shoebox models, just as they turned to fat fendered cars, and more and more of them appear at car shows and rodding events throughout the country. In 1997 a 1955 Chevrolet is 42 years old, over a decade older than was a Forty Ford Coupe when our definitions were established. It's time to include them, and other models of that vintage, in the definition which is central to our hobby.

Some would make the point that it doesn't matter very much what these cars are called, but I believe the hobby and sport of Street Rodding is best served by focusing on the nature of our activities than on the specific years that automobiles were manufactured. There is something of a natural cut-off which occurs during the 1960's due to the fact that the Muscle Car era came during those years, an era in which factory cars came already sporting most of the modifications which Hot Rodders had been making in the past. Later years brought with them front wheel drive and many other changes which are less adaptable to modifications by the average hobbyist.

Rodders were once known as rodders because they did the modifcations to their cars themselves. It was common practice to buy an old clunker and make it new again, only better. As the supply of old cars diminished it became harder and harder for such hobbyist's to find cars to modify. When this occurred, they turned to those old cars that were available, the cars manufactured AFTER 1948. It could easily be argued that many "Street Rods" today bear much less resemblance to the hot rods of old than they do to new cars, because they are so often manufactured by professionals and purchased after all the work has been done. This is not the case with most of the Fifties cars one sees, and I would very much like to see the effort that goes into their restoration and modification recognized by inclusion in the definition of Street Rod."

[427 S/O]

Dam!!

[JAM1775]

I consider my FFR Cobra replica a Hot Rod.

[Carroll DeWeese]

computerworks,

Thanks for the detail. By the Hot Rod and Street Rod clan, no Cobra is by strict definition a Hot Rod or Street Rod.

What kind of performance classification is a Cobra?

[Edley Rondinone]

I think the general definition of a "HOT ROD" is a vehicle with added performance, albeit thru the manufacturer, or added by the owner(s). More specific classifications could be used, as in "30's HOT ROD, '50's HOT ROD, "factory" HOT ROD (lightweight Galaxies, Super Duty Pontiacs, RPO Camaros, etc...) I think "Cobra-bodied" HOT ROD works for me. Now, this thread may turn into a multi-page dissertation on what is considered what, with various combinations and uses of nomenclature. In fact, I hope it does!!! In the glorious words of another member,...................AAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDD WE'RE OFF...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Excaliber]

I once got into a 3 day argument over what a "sports car" is.....try THAT one sometime!

In MY book the Cobra is NOT a Hot Rod but it IS a Sports Car!

Is the Corvette a sports car,,,,,hmmmmm,,,,NAH,,,to heavy. Maybe it's an "exoctic"? NAH,,,don't cost enough.

Ernie

[Edley Rondinone]

Ernie, How many pages in your book? (just joshin'!!!)

[Excaliber]

It's a very thick book,,,,,,and I'm adding another chapter! WHAT is an "exoctic"? And where does the Jaguar XJS fit into all this? So many questions! lol

Ernie

[Edley Rondinone]

If I put a frame under a VW Karmann Ghia, cut the roof off, added a 9" and a 351, and sat in the back seat to drive, would THAT be an exotic? Would it get its own page in your book?

[Excaliber]

Edley,,,THAT would clearly be a Hot Rod,,,unless you sold it for 100K.....then it's an exoctic Hot Rod!

McClaren F1, exotic in the purest form!

Ernie

[Carroll DeWeese]

If a Cobra is not a "hot rod", what is it?

[Ron61]

Ernie,

I thought they normally wouldn't consider any car which seats more than two as a sports car. However a hot rod seems to be about as elusive to define as a street rod. The local street rodder's club is going through their annual argument about which of their cars are legitimate street rods. I always thought of the Cobra as more sports car than hot rod. The local car shows are no help as they all seem to have different opinions as to what cars belong in which class.

example== Car show #1 Cobras special construction
Car show #2 Cobras sports cars
Car show #3 Cobras stock or modified.

It makes no difference to these people if the Cobra is an original or replica.

What does you book say about this ?

Ron

[Cal Metal]

Ron:

I don't think Brent pays you enough. Ask for a raise.

Just one small point. I think the origin of what we refer to as hot rods/hotrodding came from the pre WWII era on the dry lake beds of southern California (El Mirage). The people we know as household names today started that whole era. To wit, Remington, Hilborn, Iskenderian, Engle, Racer Brown, Vic Edelbrock, Nellie Johnson.

[Ron61]

Cal,

I thought the same thing about the orgin of hot rods. I still watch some of the old shows of those guys out in the dry lake beds. I also thought that the sports car concept or term really came into being here after World War 11 when a lot of troops brought back their MGs and such from England but am most likely wrong about that. The Speed Channel and History channels have a lot of shows lately about the old cars and the people that built and drove them. But getting any two people around here to agree on anything is almost news worthy.

So, in your opinion where would the Cobras fall ? Hot Rod or Sports Car, or neither ? As I said above I have had the car shows put us in almost every class so they don't agree until now. They created a special construction class that is a catch all for everything from 18 wheelers to boats and yes, they do have them in the shows.

[Cal Metal]

Definitely as a Sports Car. That concept to me, is strictly European. Even in ecomonically beat up, war torn countries, post WWII, these places were at least producing them, albeit in small numbers. Ferrari in '48 for example. We were still dinking around with the Corvette six years later. The Nash Healy (some what of a hybrid) never caught on, nor did the Kaiser Darrin, all of which were very limited attempts. Cunningham built some "one offs" but never produced a production vehicle.

In the U.S., USAC was very strong in the 50s. Remember that Corvette production didn't eclipse 10,000 units p/yr. until 1960--this from the World largest corporation with a lot of marketing power behind it. How many '57 Chevs sedans were sold? I think close to a million. To me, the Sports Car concept was never an American idea.

[Carroll DeWeese]

You are probably right that the Cobra is first and formost a sports car. It has the size and driveabililty of a European car. The old towns of Europe have narrow, winding streets. There are lots of winding 2 lane roads on mountains and hills. More people know how to drive and use manual transmissions. The cars are smaller.

Look at European race courses. Most are road courses, not ovals. A premium is placed on driveability and driver performance. Formula 1 on streets is not really a US sport. In Europe, many fans love road courses.

Europe has also been much more about craft shops. No manufacturer has been able to truly dominate: not Fiat, VW, Renault, Vauxhall, Opel, etc. The US has a few big manufactures, miles of good roads, wide open spaces, etc. US racing is disproportinately on oval and drag strips. Sports cars of all types are secondary. They inspire passion, but few have them and fewer know how to drive them. US cars tend to be big and macho.

The Cobra combines a European body with a US engine. It is a road car, not an oval track car.

[Trans-Am Jim]

To add to Cal's post on page one, here's my understanding of the origin of the term.

Pre WWII, the only cam grinds available were stock ones; i.e., as supplied by the manufacturer. The earliest rodders would create their own custom one-offs by welding on metal to the stock camshafts, regrinding, and then re-heat treating them, making it a "hot rod."

[Jamo]

I prefer to think of Cobras as sports racers given their racing heritige and early 60s pedigree. They just happened to show up on the street.