Insurance information straight from the source!

[Roscoe]

washingtonpost.com
Couple Sues McDonald's Over Tough Bagel



The Associated Press
Tuesday, February 4, 2003; 10:20 AM

PANAMA CITY BEACH, Fla. –– A couple is suing the franchisee of a McDonald's restaurant, claiming an improperly prepared bagel damaged the husband's teeth and their marriage.

John and Cecelia O'Hare sued Friday for unspecified damages more than $15,000. They alleged the McDonald's, owned by Johnstone Foods Inc., was negligent and violated an "implied warranty that the food sold was reasonably fit for human consumption."

They contend in the suit that John O'Hare broke teeth and bridgework on Feb. 1, 2002 when he bit into the bagel. The suit did not say what exactly was wrong with the bagel.

The suit alleges the wife "lost the care, comfort, consortium and society of her husband." The couple's attorney, Tim Warner, did not return telephone messages left at his office.

Tracey Johnstone, owner of Johnstone Foods, said she never before had a bagel complaint and had no idea how it could have been prepared in a way that would damage teeth.

"It's a bagel," she said.


© 2003 The Associated Press

[klayfish]

Evan, I think I'll end this here. My mission here is to try to organize Cobra owners together to help set universal safety standards and try to help make sure insurance is available for our cars. Obviously, we see things very differently. I had no intention of putting words in your mouth, I extrapolated a conclusion from what you said in your post. Sorry if it was shoving words in your mouth. It's similar to your shoving words in my mouth about soft tissue. I never said any of those things you went off about. I could write a really long response, because I think you're dead wrong, on just about everything you posted. You have your perspective, I have mine. But that is not what the issue is here. Again, if you don't want to be a part of this, please don't. There are lots of other things I'm sure you can concern yourself with. But please don't try to bring this down because you don't like insurance companies. Hey, one last thing... if we're so damn wealty, then how come I can't even afford to upgrade my Cobra?

Turk, I realize that this is a hotbed issue, and it could be argued for all eternity. And that's why I put that huge disclamer in bold at the start of this. Let's try, for once, to leave our personal issues behind. As Cobra owners, we all face the same situation. I want to help if I can. You know I meant no harm about Gasholes and Club Cranky. Hell, I'm a proud member of Club Cranky, and they scare me, so I certainly don't want the Gasholes after me! I actually can't wait until DVSFIII to meet everyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that. But I really want to try to stay focused here. Getting sidetracked will only ruin what we are trying to do.

Blackjack, thanks for the support. As you said, I'm trying to focus on the issue here, not get into personal story debates. I admittedly know very little about medical insurance, as I don't deal with it. I understand it is very different than auto insurance.

Everyone, let's please try to focus on the goals DV and I have set forth. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to an opinion, as everyone is and I respect that. But I request that you respect what we are trying to do. If you don't want to be part of it, that's fine. But please save your insurance attacking, lawyer attacking, or other side debates for another thread. Maybe we should create a whole other forum for that. Would make for some fun reading. Evan, I'll bring my brass knuckles with me.

Steve

[Roscoe]

Steve,

OK...I'll behave

Roscoe

[BLACKJACK]

STEVE - -

ON THE SUBJECT OF "OPINIONS".

OPINIONS CAN BE LIKENED TO RECTUMS - - -EVERYBODY HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THEM.


NOW - - - HAVING SAID THAT - - - AT MY AGE I WISH TO HELL THAT YOU GUYS WOULD GET OFF THE SUBJECT OF "SOFT TISSUE". IT'S SOMETHING US OLD GUYS CHOOSE NOT TO LET OUR MINDS DWELL UPON.

STEVE - KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, WE ALL APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS ALTHOUGH SOME OF US FORGET TO TELL YOU.

Y'ALL HAVE AREALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by Roscoe


washingtonpost.com
Couple Sues McDonald's Over Tough Bagel



The Associated Press
Tuesday, February 4, 2003; 10:20 AM

PANAMA CITY BEACH, Fla. –– A couple is suing the franchisee of a McDonald's restaurant, claiming an improperly prepared bagel damaged the husband's teeth and their marriage.

John and Cecelia O'Hare sued Friday for unspecified damages more than $15,000. They alleged the McDonald's, owned by Johnstone Foods Inc., was negligent and violated an "implied warranty that the food sold was reasonably fit for human consumption."

They contend in the suit that John O'Hare broke teeth and bridgework on Feb. 1, 2002 when he bit into the bagel. The suit did not say what exactly was wrong with the bagel.

The suit alleges the wife "lost the care, comfort, consortium and society of her husband." The couple's attorney, Tim Warner, did not return telephone messages left at his office.

Tracey Johnstone, owner of Johnstone Foods, said she never before had a bagel complaint and had no idea how it could have been prepared in a way that would damage teeth.

"It's a bagel," she said.


© 2003 The Associated Press

If they lose that suit they can always turn to the other deep pockets, the dentist's malpractice carrier, when after subpoenaing the records, it is determined that the dentist did not give informed consent against bagel eating. Never mind the fact that for 50 years the plaintiff smoked, never brushed his teeth, and had end stage gum disease.
I'm sorry, but while my earlier post sighted insurance companies, lawyers, and the failure of Congress to enact 'loser pays' legislation as ALL being part of the problem, an attorney blaming the insurance companies is like the "pot calling the kettle black".
I have no problem with attorneys doing all they can, arguing with all their might to win their clients cases (and keep 40% for themselves), as the other side will do the same, if you don't; but, this results in endless cases which run up huge bills, as I said. With regard to 'loser pays' laws limiting poor peoples access to the court system, it would not be long before enterprising trial lawyers (the one's with ads on the front/back/inside covers of the phone book) would be marketing their services with a promise to cover the costs in they do not settle, therefore, it would not limit peoples access to the court system.
With regard, to insurance companies drumming up a crisis between lawyers and doctors, GIVE ME A BREAK! Is it the insurance companies that are forcing the attorneys to flood the soap opera commercials, (to the stay at home ne'er do wells who are looking for a big lottery payoff), with enticements to sue their doctors, or their grandmother's nursing homes? I don't think so!
We have got a huge problem here, that is just now reaching the Cobra market. But, just ask the doctor's, companies sued over asbestos that never made asbestos, or any number of legitimate businesses being decimated by A COMBINATION of the above three problems, and they will concur.
And Evan, if I ever need a trial lawyer, I'm calling you. Your energy seems boundless, and wearing the opposition down is half the battle.
And, thanks for the info Klayfish.

[REAL 1]

Steve: Agreed.

As to why you say you can't afford to upgrade your Cobra I can't say. That question is better directed to the board members of the carrier you work or write for. I guess they don't adhere to the "trickle down theory".

Again. Sorry for the rant.


BTW. What was the original question again.

[REAL 1]

Dr. Bolte: Thank you.

There are BS claims. No doubt. They are by far a small fraction of a percent of the total docket. The bagel case. That sounds ridiculous unless there was something in the bagel that injured the man.

The recent McD's case made me cringe. Frivilous cases like that are thrown out like it was.

I can counter many, many fold with meritorious cases for each ridiculous one you may want to cite from some press release. Just a little interesting tidbit. Did you know that each year there are thousands of incidents where surgical instruments are left in patients? These are documented. Might those incidents lead to meritorious claims? Hmmm. Haven't even gotten to some of the other cases.

By and large the ultimate awards are fair and just. The crazy ones that are truly far and few between make the press and all hell breaks loose.

Problem is there is no perfect system or process. Some $hit cases will seep in unfortunately. By and large the majority have merit.

Frivilous cases are losing propositions for all. the vast majority of lawyers don't want frivilous cases. Beileve me.

Med mal caps are not the answer. By and large most doctors are competent and professional. Its a small percentage of them that lead to the bulk of the claims. Reducing medical malpractice is a good place to start though.

[Jamo]

Steve
I can take just about anything anyone has to to dish out--call me anything you want, tell me I'm full of, suggest I kiss your behind--I really don't care. But the minute someone calls me Turk...

[Chaplin]

Jamo-
That is an insult of epic proportions. I wouldn't take that from him if I were you. You know what you need to do?? You do know what you need to do. Why are you holding back? Assolutely let him have it.

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by REAL 1

.

The recent McD's case made me cringe. Frivilous cases like that are thrown out like it was.
[/b]

That "frivolous" as you call it obesity case, with it's inclusion of everything you could think of was a bald faced attempt to root through 50 years of paperwork, looking for some internal memo that says something like "we know that millions of Americans are going to die from eating incredibly unhealthy Big Macs, but Americans are addicted to fat, salt and sugar, and we will make a fortune", as they did with cigarettes and the Brown and Williamson papers discovery in 1995, that, after 30 years of unsuccessful trying, finally lead to the multiple many billion dollar settlements now enriching the attorneys of America. Unless another boondoggle comes along (boob jobs, Fen-phen, whatever), they will try and try again, until they find a smoking gun.

[Chaplin]

The worst thing about the McDonals'd case is that the judge gave them another shot. If he had stopped at dismissing the complaint and left it at that it would have been fine. But, in his ruling, he continued to explain to the plaintiffs how they could amend their complaint so that it might withstand a motion to dismiss. Now McD's is going to be inundated with all sorts of discovery to determine what is contained in their chicken mcnuggets. The judge stated that if the mcnuggets turn out to be "McMonsters" (I think that was the term he used) and contain harmful ingredients that people would not expect to find in mcnuggets, the plaintiffs might have a viable claim. Talk about judicial activism at its worst. Just as it is common knowledge that a steady diet of burgers and fries will make you fat, isn't also common knowledge that McNuggets are an amalgamation of all sorts of crap??

[Double Venom]

Sheeesh! Double Sheesh in fact. GET THIS BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND please.

I love the sidebar thread, someone start a new thread! It's hard enough to speak to 3 forums, let alone trying to seperate the side bars! Phew! Now I feel better.

Steve and I are going to do this. In fact we are already doing it. The point is, we want and NEED your input NOW! We are ready to file for a charter, we need an agenda, we need to know what you guys think should be set in stone for basic safety standards.

We need to know and we want to know now! Here are some ideas that will most likely NOT be included: Roll bars, horsepower, side impact bars. We also do not want to be ridiculously picky either, such as tread depth, type of tires, windshield washers, etc.

This is serious stuff. We want to save lives, we do not want to cost the owner hundreds of dollars to meet what ever safety standards "we" pick.

Give us your ideas, give us your support. We are on the threshold of doing great things. I can't tell you how many people of the "who's who" crowd has been following these threads. My personal e-mail is being inundated with, "it's about time" mails!

Yes it is about time! We can do this.

DV...We may be a tenth of the size of the NSRA, but we will carry the same, if not more wieght! "WE" are family.

[REAL 1]

You can't compare the McD's case to the tobacco cases. Tobacco contains ADDICTIVE nicotine which the industry knew was addiictive but did not advise the public. If you are unknowingly getting addicted to something because a manufacture puts an addictive ingredient in the product and does not warn you thats over the line and actionable.

I know of no addiction to sugar, salt or any other food stuff. Not a good analogy.

Cigarettes led to thousands of horrible deaths due to cancer. Don't even try to put this silly McD case in the same category. Thats just ridiculous.

What the Judge said in dismissing the case makes sense and is consistent with product liability law. If there is some ingredient in the product that you would not reasonably expect and that speicific ingredient results in health problems if ingested in reasonable quantities or has an addictive quality to it then thats a whole new ball game and then there might be a legitimate claim.

The Judge didn't give them another shot at all. All the judge did was to point out that they didn't state a cause of action in the case. To state a cause of action they will need to prove a violation of established according to product liability principles which they did not.

If the plaintiff's want to waste their time analyzing chicken nuggets thats their business. I think short of showing something that you wouldn't expect in the food that causes health problems they are wasting their time.

In short if all the plaintiffs in the McD case are saying is that "they should have told us we would get fat if we ate this stuff day and night" the case is crap and should have been tossed.

[Chaplin]

Evan-
You're absolutely correct, the judge did accurately state products liability law, but if these people were not smart enought to figure it out in the first place, why did he need to turn on the light switch for them??

And I think what they were saying, at least in the first case, was that McD's didn't make it clear how bad their food was. In fact, the father of one of the 5'2" 200 pounders submitted an affidavit to the court stating that he thought McDonald's food was healthy and, had he known it wasn't, he never would have fed it to his kid. Come on . . . .

(Sorry DV- back on topic now)

[Double Venom]

I have seen the enemy and WE are the enemy!
DV

[Excaliber]

...whew,,,,I got ahead ache trying to figure out who's on first with this thread.....

Ernie

[Jamo]

Wait--one more thing before we return to your normal programming...

It's the damn sweet and sour sauce! Who knows what is contained in that goo? I, for one, am sick and tired of people picking on the poor maligned chicken.

KFI does bring up a good point, though, in it's commercials--what the he!! is a "nugget"?

Back to where we were--figuring out how to insure chicke...er...Cobras!

[klayfish]

Jamo,
DO'H!!! I was trying to type my post, take phone calls and eat lunch all at the same time. My humble apologies. Shows you what working for the insurance companies has done to my brain. Yikes.

Can we please, please return this to the original topic. If you want to start a sidebar in Cobra Lounge about the insurance vs. lawyers debate, please do. I'll jump in if I can.

We want and need your help with the issue at hand. As DV said, we're moving towards filing the charter. We want to get our agenda set, and get organized. How about suggestions for the safety checklist. I'm not a mechanic, but I do agree we shouldn't get too picky, but the list should be comprehensive enough to cover the major safety items that can be checked on ALL Cobras. I'm sure there is debate on this too. But lets' work on it. I think you will all be surprised how much results this gets us in time (and it will take some time). Our goal is simple. DV is right. Don't want to cost owners a lot (I couldn't afford it if it did), but hopefully this will save lives and save our butts with insurance and allow us to keep driving our cars.

And by the way Evan, no sugar addiction? Obviously you've never met me! Ever see the guy at the drug store the day after Halloween, Easter, Valentines Day, etc... snapping up the 50% off candy? That would be me. And I'm only 150 lbs.

Steve

[Jamo]

Nope--don't want to engage in THAT debate (read my earlier post carefully). Just realize some will--that was my message.

Carry on--you and DV are doing just fine.

And don't call me Turk!

[klayfish]

For crying out loud, I'm having no end of troubles with my typing tonight. Jamo, I only intended my first paragraph directly towards you. The rest of the post was a general post, but I did a terrible job of indicating that (actually I didn't do anything, and that's the problem). I read your earlier post. I was just saying to everyone in general that we can debate the topic elsewhere. I know some will, but hey, that's up to them.

Now I better shut up before I do something else stupid. Besides, my Flyers are playing now.

Steve