Insurance information straight from the source!

[Turk]

Guys,
First it seemed like there was an invite for a discussion. As the threads populated it is sounding more and more like ,if you don't subscribe to the party line we should keep our opinions to ourselves.

Is this pretty well laid out and decided and only comments that are welcome are those in agreement and any dissention or discussion should take place elsewhere?

I may not agree with every opinion in here, and I wouldnt take this up again, if I didn't strongly feel that this is THE time to air everything out.

You are all engaged in something that will effect us all, (and it may very well be time to do something about what ails us all) but can't we make this discussion more inclusive and not come across as if here is a certain amount of scolding going on if you don't simply get ..GO FOR IT!!.

If it effects us all, then all should participate.Hell we can't even agree on a name and not likely that we would agree on all the details, but this should be where we discuss this. Not LATER somewhere else.

I am getting the distinct feeling like" Look, we are doing it for your own good and just shut up and listen"..

Am I being too sensitive? I don't have an alternative nor do I have any objection to the efforts put forth by the likes of Klayfish and others. I just think we should make it easier for the debate and the discussion to ensue.


TURK

[Double Venom]

Turk,
Fella, all Steve and I have asked for is that the thread(s) stay focused. We don't need to go so far out of bounds that no one remembers what the original thread even was.

We can discuss "this" issue until everyone simply passes over it to click on the newest and hottest. You say, "we can't even agree on a name," not yet, but that is the whole point of asking everyone isn't it? We will simply take the most appointed names, then break those down, and then take a vote.

The mission, the reason, the goal is simply to help in making all Cobras and home builds safer.

The second mission or goal is to let the insurance company's know that "WE" know there is a problem and that "WE" are going to fix it.

That's it. Absolutely nothing more nothing less.
It's your choice to do this. Period.

This is truly a, You either get it or you don't point.
It certainly is NOT a "either you join us or die" option!

I don't even like the connotations that that brings up!

I have been a member of the "Unofficial Safety Club" for over 20 years. I know other builders in my profession also belong.

My thoughts are that it is time to go national, that's all.

These are the questions and every one of them are and should be debatable.

Do you want a nationally recognized safety committee?
If you do, what "basic" safety issues do you want to cover?
Do you want strictly and for ever more, voluntary inspections?

Benefits: Obviously to make your car safer. This is #1
Get the insurance companies attention that we do care
and that we are good risks
promote our Hobby, and our love of these cars.

This IS the agenda, plain and simple. This is where I say, "you either get it or you don't!" My statement by no means implies a take it or leave it attitude! You of all people know from my heart what I am attempting to accomplish. Safety, safety, safety.

This is getting long, but I feel that I have to make a point. Right now, as we discuss this, I have a gentlemen's Cobra in our shop that he bought used. He is the second owner and brought it in for a few very minor repairs and upgrades. Total estimated time in the shop was two days, or if a lot of phone calls came in, maybe three. As of Monday we will be on week three.

Upgrading a few of his gauges and a leaky rear end has come to this:

His clutch slave cylinder was binding horribly causing the car to launch as if it were on a drag strip every time he moved. The cylinder was on such a bind that it leaks fluid to replacing all the fluid in the reservoir once a month. He thought this was normal.

The car had a light vibration: Tracked down to a bent right rear axle which was also leaking rear end fluid. (This repair alone will cost him over $1,000.00, new bushing, seals bearing and having the rear center section rebuilt.)

Not confirmed yet, but it appears who ever made his brake lines only single flared all the lines. (All the lines to the clutch slave cylinder are single flared and leaking!)

His exhaust system (4 into 4) leaks at every seam. (Is this critical or a safety factor? Who knows, I don't suspect he will be sleeping in his car)

His brake lines have more unions than 3 cars should have.
His brake lines, and fuel lines are NOT hard mounted except for a few, and I mean a few fasteners. BOTH lines run rampant around the headers and there is NOT a clamp insight for over two three feet of line.

He has NO neutral safety switch, or at least not a working one!

All of this without doing a single intentional inspection. These are just the things that one of my guys pointed out while working on the car. I keep hearing, "DV, DV...come here, ya gotta see this!"

"THIS" is what it's all about. "This" is what our Cobra people will either, "get it or you wont" comment.

I will also tell you that all of this is from one of the most prized kits out there. It was not a turnkey, nor a turnkey minus situation, but IT WAS supposedly built by a professional with many years of experience!

DV..lets all be safe out there! It IS so easy to do.

[Turk]

I get it.

TURK

[REAL 1]

DV: I think we are getting beyond where I think it needs to be.

There are maintenance issues. Thats not what I see as a role for our proposed organization. Maybe I'm missing the point.

I see the purpose of the organization to provide a checklist, as comprehensive as it needs to be in order for the owners car to be roadworthy. The organization can't provide and account for every conceivable maintenance problem. Thats the owners responsibility.

At least the owner in your example above recognized there was a problem with his car and is having a qualified shop correct the problems.

The issue is whether the cars are constructed properly ie the basics have been properly constructed (steering, brakes, suspension, fuel lines, brake lines, carb linkage, seats properly fastened, safety belts anchored properly) and road worthy. The issue presents itself as a problem for the owner for basic safety and at the time the owner wants insurance so he can establish to the carrier his car is roadworthy and constructed properly. As I see it the organization provides the basic checklist the owner obtains the mechanic and certification that the car is roadworthy and the operating systems properly installed.

I do not want to get involved in determining whether a particular kit is designed or constructed properly ie. the frame being PCV tubing. Thats the owners problem and the manufacturers.

[Ken Greene]

real 1 your getting the idea now

[casaleenie]

I'd like to know the initials of the kit that was involved in the sub-standard build.... Just whisper it if you don't want to say it aloud...

[klayfish]

Turk,
I really hope you didn't take my posts with an attitude of "join us or die". I never had any intention of sounding like that, and I welcome all discussion. Heck, I've been asking for input. I'm a relative newcomer here and wouldn't pretend to be the foremost expert, or try to tell anyone what they have to do. I'm just a Cobra owner, car nut who happens to be in the insurance industry.
I think DV explained it very well. I'm just passionate about it, so if it came across as "shut up and listen", I truly apologize.

The only thing that is well laid out and decided is that we are going to do this. We have to. Beyond that, everything is open for discussion. Also, this will be a totally VOLUNTARY program. Nobody will say you have to participate or give anyone a hard time if they don't. I want this to be a friendly, open and public group. Not a dictatorship. Please don't look at it that way.

Steve

[Howard Bosworth]

A safety inspection/certification program accepted by the industry and insurance carriers would be of great benifit to us all. If there is something that I can do to help make it happen contact me.

Some years ago I attended a national MG show at THE BRICKYARD, one of the clubs sponsored a free safety inspection in the parking lot.
So many serious problems were found that the lift they used for the safety inspection was used at night for emergency repairs. Some folks had drove hundreds of miles with loose stearing/tie rods, bad brakes, leaking/loose fuel lines etc. Some of the worst problems were on cars " just out of the shop" for this show.

[BLACKJACK]

I LIKED TURK'S POST - - - - - -

I THINK IT WAS VERY APPROPRIATE. THIS GROUP TENDS TO BECOME OPINIONATED AND DRAW LINES IN THE SAND. PERSONALITIES TEND TO BECOME THE ISSUE RATHER THAN THE TOPIC MATERIAL. I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT THIS HAS BEEN AT A MINIMUM ON THIS POST. I BELIEVE THAT TURK WAS JUST TRYING TO KEEP IT THAT WAY.

"OPINIONS" WERE REQUESTED AND I CONTRIBUTED MINE - - I'D LIKE TO SEE EVERYONE CONTRIBUTE THEIR OPINIONS - - BUT FOR GAWD'S SAKE ONLY TWO OR THREE TIMES. STEVE WAS RIGHT THAT THIS THING HAS GOTTEN OUT OF HAND. IT'S GOTTEN SO LONG THAT IT'S NOW EATING IT'S OWN TAIL.

IF WE ALL FEEL COMPELLED TO ANSWER (RE-ANSWER) EVERY DARN POST THAT POPS UP - - WITH A RE-WRITE OF WHAT WE'VE SAID THREE TIMES ALREADY - - THE REST OF THE MEMBERS ARE NOT EVEN GOING TO "CLICK" ON TO IT.

WE'RE ON PAGE 6 (?) OR SO AND EVERYTHING OF ANY VALUE COULD EASILY BE CONDENSED DOWN TO TWO PAGES. THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD BE SACRIFICED IS THE REDUNDANCY.

IF EVERYONE HAS CONTRIBURED AN OPINION THAT CHOOSES TO DO SO, THEN, IT'S REALLY TIME TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT STEP.

LET'S MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN - - - - -

MY DEAR OLD GRANDMOTHER ALWAYS SAID THAT THERE ARE ONLY THREE TYPES OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD:

* * THOSE WHO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN.

* * THOSE WHO WATCH THINGS HAPPEN.

* * AND THOSE WHO WONDER "WHAT THE F&%K HAPPENED ?????"

IT'S TIME TO START MAKING THINGS HAPPEN.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT AND SAFE DAY.

BLACKJACK

PS: TURK - - I REALLY LIKED YOUR EARLIER POST WHERE YOU SAID THAT COBRA DRIVERS WILL GET AN ADDITIONAL DISCOUNT IF WE ARE NRA MEMBERS.

[Dan Semko]

This would seem like a prime opportunity for ALL of the cobra manufacturers. If they joined the cause, established the baseline underwriter foundation and asked all of the owners to participate, they'd corner the market. They could easily assess a $200-500 fee in their cars during the build to provide the financial base for a major underwriter! Rather than being told what you can have or do, why not have the people directly involved with our passion provide an alternative path for insurance problems.
Medically self insured companies have done this for years and used this base to "attract" insurance companies to underwrite their plans. Make the insurance companies come to you rather than you crawling to them.