Insurance issue/Cobra charter group. Your vote is NEEDED!! Input very important!

[klayfish]

Randy,
I have not had the opportunity to speak with the underwriters from the other companies, but I hope to if I ever get a free minute. I don't know there is a set number they'd be looking for. I guess the best answer is the more the merrier. I think if we have a large, strong group with a good driving record and high performance driving "experience", it will help us.

Nope, not reinventing the wheel. Just creating a Halibrand version of it!

Steve

[CSX 4039]

Dear thread-

Please explain to me, or the thread how a safety check list will help? Are these things falling apart in the middle of the highway? The only safety things that really matter, absent (presumably rare, since I am not aware of these cars falling apart in the road) severe construction flaws, would be side impact bars, drop down and out engines with crumple zones, air bags, hard metal roofs, large tail lights with center brake lights, etc. If the body of the car is a stiff as a locomotive with no crumple zones to absorb the energy, then the only thing that changes shape in the event of an impact is the driver and passenger. Well demonstrated in the old Indy Roadsters, in the IMAX movie 'Super Speedway'. That great movie showed Indy Watson type roadsters slamming into the wall, bouncing away at nearly the same speed, and nearly intact, and the driver's snapping so hard (whiplash) that surely he died of a broken neck. If the car absorbs the energy in the frame, this doesn't happen nearly as much, no? Every Cobra manufacturer I can think of adveritizes how stiff thier frames are....no?

signed,

Confused

[Excaliber]

Wheres the poll so I can vote "YES" we need this. I will be buying in the near future OR having a custom one built for me, Either way, I want the NEXT car to meet the new proposed requirements. "Roadster" should not be in the name, what if I get a "wild hair" and buy a Coupe? I want IT to be covered also!

Ernie

[Dwight]

I VOTE YES

ANY NAME WILL DO.

[Double Venom]

Klayfish, You think your having a hard time keeping up! We're putting in 10 and twelve hour days in the shop! I used to sneak onto the shop computer at lunch, but hey, most of us aren't even taking lunch anymore! If it wasn't for Mrs. DV's Cookies I'd be skinny!

Brett, take no offense but your ignorance, or better put, your lack of knowledge is dangerous. At least 12 Cobras burned to the ground last few years becuase of poorley made fuel lines, or improper installation. There were at least four fatalities that included the seats being torn loose from the car. Dozens of accidents because of improper brakes. Do we hear about these? Almost never! Who is going to admit they used the wrong fuel line for an EFI engine. Who will admit they didn't know that all brake lines are to be doubled flared? Who would admit that they mixed and matched brake components, only to work at slow speed, but when a sudden "stop" was needed their brakes wouldn't lock up.

How about the Cobras that started all by themselves. Or the ones that caught fire hours after they were parked? How about the ones that were simply driving around after dark and for no reason the headlights, or for that matter all the lights went out for no apparent reason?

Want me to go on? Hell I've just got started!

WE CAN NOT JOIN THE NSRA! UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE YOUR COBRA WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT PRE 1948!

No, it is not our intention to inspect your frames, your welds, or anything else your kit manufacture supplies or makes.

YES, this is for all Cobras. Eventually I would personally like to see all home built, self assembeled, kit cars included. Someday, but for now, we are the ones in the ugly limelight. NSRA is NOT an elitist group, they only have their heads out of the sand and have had for over 25 years. They had the same problems years ago that we are facing now. They didn't withdraw, they didn't hide and hope the problem would go away. They faced the challange on their own, and we will too.

As Steve indicated, everyone of our "Streetrods" roll out of the shop with the proud small "NSRA" decal in the bottom left corner of the windshield.

I hope I live long enough to see the same type decal on our Cobras.

DV..It IS for you. Not your neighbor, not for me, not for Seve nor anyone else but, simply you and yours.

PS.. The State legal definition of "our" cars is. "Self assembeled Vehicle".

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by Double Venom



Brett, take no offense but your ignorance, or better put, your lack of knowledge is dangerous. At least 12 Cobras burned to the ground last few years becuase of poorley made fuel lines, or improper installation. There were at least four fatalities that included the seats being torn loose from the car. Dozens of accidents because of improper brakes. Do we hear about these? Almost never! Who is going to admit they used the wrong fuel line for an EFI engine. Who will admit they didn't know that all brake lines are to be doubled flared? Who would admit that they mixed and matched brake components, only to work at slow speed, but when a sudden "stop" was needed their brakes wouldn't lock up.

How about the Cobras that started all by themselves. Or the ones that caught fire hours after they were parked? How about the ones that were simply driving around after dark and for no reason the headlights, or for that matter all the lights went out for no apparent reason?

Want me to go on? Hell I've just got started!
[/b]

1) Thanks for the info. You're right, I did not know.
2) Dangerous? I merely asked a question, I thought.
3) Like many, I am not a mechanic, that is way I bought a turnkey car. Many who are not mechanics buy kits. I hope I know my limitations. It is still a very unsafe car though. Moreso in traffic than out in the country or possibly even on the track. I wear a Bell helmet when driving it.
4) Except for not hearing about funding (inspecting 20,000 Cobras= $$$), I vote YES.

[Double Venom]

Bret,

I was way out of line!
Excuse me please. To many long days, trying to keep up and answer three forums, of course the Fling is running rampant, and the shop is buried to the hilt. I thought about what I had wrote, thinking I had taken to many short cuts in writing my last few responses. I went back. I checked and I did.

Even though you didn't complain, took my hard hitting comments without so much as a " You SOB", and then responded positively says a lot more about you than it does about me. Maybe you didn't even take it the way it appears to me, but please except my apologies anyway.

I guess I just think everyone that drives one of these cars of ours believes as I do. Seen too many, removed too many, knocked on too many doors at 3:00 AM.

No excuses, maybe I will just sit back and relax for awhile.
Naah way to much to get done.

DV...if I get out of line again..will some one slap me and take my cookies away!

[Jamo]

DV

Who's gonna call you an SOB when you got all the cookies?

[petek]

SAVA ... self assembled vehicle association. Even sounds appropriate when you say it: "save a"

One area particularly dear to my heart is the car's electrics. While I recognize that electrics are like magic to many, in reality there are no truly complex circuits in any of our cars ... and yes, I'm including the fuel injection computer. Some simple guidelines about wire size, fuse size, switch current carring capability and the like could go a L_O_N_G way towards safety!

On the other hand... how much safety would we want to include? For example, the turn signal assembly on the GM column is double-redundant. There are individual switch contacts for front and rear turn signals and yet another set of contacts for the hazard lights. When I re-wired my Montage I just used a single set of contacts for the left and right signals and then a single contact for the hazard lights ... a reduction of over 50%.

What did I give up? Redundancy. Undoubtably GM (and I'll assume every other manufacturer) knows something about the safety required to ensure the signals work and used redundant switch contacts. Is my Montage any less safe? Nope, as long as the turn signal contacts continue to work.

[klayfish]

DV, I have no idea how you can even vaguely keep up. Please let me help however I can. I think the thoughts of your post was right on, and not out of line. It's not a personal attack on Brett, and to his great credit, he didn't take it that way. As you stated, the street rodders took their heads out of the sand many years ago, it's time we do too.

No, I fully agree that we cannot join the NSRA. The only thing I am saying about it is that I would think that many of our inspectors, such as DV, will be both inspectors for us and for NSRA, so there will be some overlap.

I also agree fully with DV that eventually I want to include all "kit" "cutom" cars, but the immediate focus needs to be the Cobra.

We are in a very bad spot right now. Our industry is facing a huge issue. The way I see it, we can do one of two things.
1. We can ***** and complain. Point fingers, call the insurance company names, call lawyers names and argue 'till the cows come home. While I'm all for a good debate, it will get us NOWHERE.
2. We can all agree we face a common problem (regardless of the cause), join together and do something about it.

This is not an attack on anyone or any group, it is my opinion. I choose option number 2. It appears many of you do too. We can debate insurance, lawyers, rules, etc...and I'll be happy to participate, but let's take action first!!!

No matter what "kit" or manufacturer we own, we are all part of the same family. Let's show it!!

Steve

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Steve & DV;

Now that we've got the NSRA thing settled,we can get to our business at hand....I was unaware of their pre-1948 rule,but that's o-k with me,we need our own group seperate anyway.....

Yes, we need to do just as the street rodders did 25 years ago and start our own group and show the insurance industry what we plan to do and then do it....It will be a slow start,but should in time catch on and do some good for everyone...

Let's move forward......

David

[REAL 1]

All good ideas.

Steve, as BLACKJACK said I think we need to find out what the carriers would want to see as a minimum for safety as far as construction and roadworthiness. Otherwise we might just be piss'n into the wind.

I know you have names picked out but I think the name of the charter organization should have the word "Cobra" in it. After all the members have tremendous knowledge about both replicas and originals and the idea is to have the organization be Cobra speicific and bring the point across that Cobras can be built well and are owned by responsible drivers and we are organized as a very specific group.

I would suggest "National Cobra Safety Association" (NCSA) or "American Cobra Safety Association" (ACSA).

Just a thought.

[REAL 1]

Steve: I understand your thought. We, however, have not a had any problems with Mr. Shelby at "Club Cobra". Cobra Forum has not had any problems that I know of neither have any of the private so called clubs lilke the Texas Cobra Club, Bay Area Cobra Club etc...Has Chevrolet, Ford etc stood in the way of the the various Corvette Clubs, Mustang Clubs etc...

Its a private organization. I think we can call it whatever we want. We aren't selling anything and the members of the organization all own Cobras and Cobra replicas. If I'm a member how could he or SAI complain? I own a Cobra. Also private owners can call their cars whatever they wish. We could certainly notify SAI and ask them to let us know if they have any objection to the name. I don't think they would stand in the way of such an organization in light of its purpose and the fact its a private club.

The above is not an official legal opinion. Just my thoughts. I defer to our official legal counsel Jamo for the official legal opinion on this.

I just think the name and focus of the organization should be sharply focused on the subject..Cobras/Cobra replicas and their safety.

Just my opinion.

As to the "list" you may be right.

[klayfish]

I suppose you're right that the local "Cobra" clubs haven't had trouble with CS. But this group is going to be national and large. Yes, I agree it will hopefully benefit SAI and many of its' customers. But it will also benefit FFR and their owners. Given the past and present issues with Shelby, the Cobra name and the manufacturers/owners of other kits, I think it's better to leave it out.

Besides, the long term goal of the group, once the initial problems unique to our Cobra family are solved, is to include all forms of "custom" cars, such as Hummer replicas, Lambo replicas and such. That will be a while down the road, but we hope to get there eventually. So a more generic name may be in order.

Steve

[Double Venom]

Good evening all.
I personally, cringe at the thought of leaving "Cobra" out of the name. Two reasons I haven't pushed this;

I) Mr. Shelby..why would he complain? But then again, I don't want to find out. If anyone can reach Shelby, get his written permission, I am all for it. I can change the name right up to the point that we file for legal rights to the name.

2.) As said before, I know this group / organization will get huge. Should we not include all self assembeled vehicles?

DV..so many posts, so little time!

[klayfish]

DV,
If we think we will not have trouble with Carroll Shelby, I'm all for using the word "Cobra", my friend. I was just worried about the legal side of things.

Steve

[Edley Rondinone]

Association of Hand-Crafted Automobiles. AHCA. or AHA. (not the band of the '80's - "Take on Me" ) If the NSRA has a valid checklist that they use, can we "Piggy-back" on it, or at least use it as a general guideline? This is a good topic; it would be nice for weekly updated post to let the readers here know what, if anything, gets accomplished

[GeorgiaSnake]

I think we need the Cobra name. I also think the initial thrust should be for Cobras (real or replica, coupe or roadster) and address nothing more.

This is the Cobra Club Forum not a generic organization that will support any and all replica's, kit's or whatever. Our problem is Cobras - so why not stick with it. If the hand assembled Lambretta Replicas need to form a club to gain insurance let them.

Hope this doesn't come across as snooty - I mean no disrespect for the other huddled masses - I'm just concerned with my Cobra Replica and the insurance that may evaporate.

Now I gotta go finish building my Lambretta.

Randy

[Bumpster]

First I want to give my support to this effort and will join as soon as it is formed. There are a lot of details to iron out, obviously, just look at the volume of responses in such a short time. A time frame to bring up questions and make suggestions may be in order or we will debate this issue forever and never get it going. Then a committee to finalize everything and let the joining begin. Perhaps not everyone will like the final form this thing takes, but then not everyone has to join if they don't care to.
Is there some overriding resason that we don't want ANY input about this from any insurance company? I was thinking about Parish- Heacock being the "official" insurance company of SAAC. They probably know more than other companies about Cobras and could at least tell us if this whole idea would even do us any good at all. We THINK it will, as it has for the hot rod crowd, but if in the end it does us no good, then we are wasting our time. I just hate to assume too much, as it can make an ASS out of yoU and ME.

Bumpster

[Ken Greene]

Association of Hand-Crafted Automobiles sounds Great to me
i do believe that the cobra replicas need to be our first focus but i also believe its only our FIRST focus. think of the datonas and the GT40s. and what about all the hand built cars that arn't replicas of anything those sould be safe also.
thats why my vote is for the Association of Hand-Crafted Automobiles.

thats my story and i'm sticking to it