Need some advice on Ca. Registration

[mikee]

Hello all!

I am brand new to this forum, new to owning a Cobra and live near Burbank, Ca. Hopefully, as we speak, it is safely on its way here in and enclosed transport from the state of Michigan.

I Just purchasd a FFR from a really great person in Michigan who built the car himself and has managed to register this 3 year old vehicle as a 1965 Ford Convertible in that state. When I called the DMV registration assistance office at AAA here in California, and told them I was planing on reqistering this in Ca., they informed me that I would have great dificulty in registering the car altogether.

Apparently the DMV in the state of Ca. sees these vechicles differently. They claim as they are not made by a major car manufacture (Ford, Chevy, Honda) they are built by hand, and therefore, subject to a through and complete safety check, including smog, wipers (which I do not have either of these two items), horn turn signals etc. and that the vehicle would not be rigistered as a 1965, but a 2000 model year and subject to all those smog laws.

My question, is HELP!
Anyone got any ideas or suggestions, or a friend at DMV?

Also if I might ask, if any of you could reccomend a good insurance company, reasonable Ca. rates with about 5000 yearly miles?

Thanks in advance,
Mikee
mplesh@mail.com
818 768 4444 evenings until about 9pm (we are old, tired and get up at 5am)

[JB from Campbel]

Hey Mikee I don't think you can use SB100 to register your car since it has already been registered. To California it is a special construction not a 1965. I think there is another California Bill (I forget the number) that addresses your issue. I pay $650 a year from AAA and drive it to work when the weather is good. I'm in Campbell, CA
PS I have no smog stuff.

Later
Johnbgood

[mikee]

Thanks John
You are right. SB100 is out for me. I will check with AAA on the insurance, as we already have three other cars registered with them.
On the registration, I was hoping that someone out there had a good way around a bad situation.

Regards,

mikee

[sfry]

Research SB1578. That might help.

Shannon

[Edley Rondinone]

Mikee, My Cobra was built in 1992, and registered in Arizona until I bought the car in 2002. I went to the local AAA office, and they assigned a new California registration sticker to the firewall, I wrote the check, and it was a done deal. I dont think that you will have a problem if was already registered as a 1965.

[meat]

Originally posted by mikee "...I Just purchasd a FFR from a really great person in Michigan who built the car himself and has managed to register this 3 year old vehicle as a 1965 Ford Convertible in that state. When I called the DMV registration assistance office at AAA here in California, and told them I was planing on reqistering this in Ca., they informed me that I would have great dificulty in registering the car altogether.

Apparently the DMV in the state of Ca. sees these vechicles differently. They claim as they are not made by a major car manufacture (Ford, Chevy, Honda) they are built by hand, and therefore, subject to a through and complete safety check, including smog, wipers (which I do not have either of these two items), horn turn signals etc. and that the vehicle would not be rigistered as a 1965, but a 2000 model year and subject to all those smog laws..."[/b]

That's not exactly true, and I would avoid at all costs the person who gave you that advice. There are two ways of registering your car in California. The first - and most obvious - would be to simply register it as a vehicle coming from out of state. If your car is a 1965, then it's smog exempt.

However, that's not the best way to register the car, because your car isn't a 1965 car.

The problem you will run into is that the car has been assigned a VIN number by some entity. You can't just take that number off and start over.

SB100 also would not have helped you, because it only applied to new cars. The changes made to the Health and Safety Code by the newer bill should allow you to properly register your car. However, I haven't attempted to re-register a car using that bill.

The proper way to register your car is to do it according to the newer bill - SB1578 is I believe the number of the bill that is applicable to your car.

The secret to registering your car is to not say that the car was "in storage" for years, and not to say that you bought the car for $20.00. The DMV is only interested in getting their money, and anything you do to avoid paying them the money is going to raise a red flag on your registration.

To get a better idea on how to register your car in California (you're going to have to go through most of the steps anyway) go here:

http://www.cobratrader.com/registrationCA.html

Your pal,
Meat.

[Venom S]

Hey Mikee-

Listen to Meat. I followed his steps from another forum, and my registration was a breeze - in and out in 35 minutes. Mind you, it was under SB100, but there is a new bill that Meat references that allows previously registered cars to be registered similar to SB100 (smog exempt).

BTW-when you get your Cobra registered, drive it out to the Sandwich Factory in Ventura in April (next meeting). We usually get 12-15 Cobras, (including a few originals), to show up.

Meat-thanks for providing the steps necessary to make the registration process palatable

Regards
Venom_S

[DaveR]

Whoever wrote the description of the registration process in the link above deserves a big Thank You. I haven't registered yet, but this is the clearest, most concise, and throrough explanation I have seen.

[petek]

That would be Meat ... he can be a little "wordy" at times

(Just tuggin' at ya Meat.)

[cobralee]

Mikee-

I'm not sure what the SB100 is, but it sounds as though if this car is already registered with a '65 registration, the actual registration belonged to maybe a '65 Ford and not a Cobra or replica. If thats the case, you should be able to take the registration right to DMV (I recommend Triple A) and they should just transfer the papework to a California title. If this doesn't work, I would register the car in another state, then attempt to transfer it to California again. I say that because the last thing you want to do is attempt to register it as a replica or kit car.

Again, I think if its already registered as a '65, it's probably a legitimate registration that just needs to be transferred.

Good Luck.

Ron

[Ron61]

I have a question regarding the above statement about trying to register a car built by SAI or Kirkhams or any other licensed specialty car manafacturer. In the link given, the statement is that they would not fall under SB-100 if I read it correctly. Yet if you buy a non complete car and finish it then why wouldn't it be legal to register it under SB-100. I can understand the Shelby Series 1 as that is only sold as a turn key car from my understanding. But I thought the Cobras were usually sold as rolling chassis and then you can have them do whatever amount of work you want them to do on it. So what is the difference there than hiring a person from here or any other state such as DV in Ohio to put your car together so long as you have all the necessary receipts to show the DMV what you have invested in the car ?

Thanks,

Ron

[meat]

Originally posted by cobralee
"...I'm not sure what the SB100 is, but it sounds as though if this car is already registered with a '65 registration, the actual registration belonged to maybe a '65 Ford and not a Cobra or replica. If thats the case, you should be able to take the registration right to DMV (I recommend Triple A) and they should just transfer the papework to a California title. If this doesn't work, I would register the car in another state, then attempt to transfer it to California again. I say that because the last thing you want to do is attempt to register it as a replica or kit car.

Again, I think if its already registered as a '65, it's probably a legitimate registration that just needs to be transferred.

Good Luck.

Ron

If the car was made in 1965, then yes, it's a legitimate registration. However, I'm fairly certain that FFR started selling kits in 1994, not 1965. Which means that the year is WAY wrong on the car. Red flag.

Registering a replica car at AAA is not always a way to go. In fact, cars that qualify for SB100 cannot be registered at AAA. AAA is the very last place you should ever go to register a kit car; the people there do not have access to all of the DMV information (including the internal memos specifically related to kit cars). If you are planning on registering a kit car, take the time to do it right. Registering a kit car at AAA, and doing wrong, will raise a red flag.

ANd - oh my God! DO NOT TAKE YOUR CAR, REGISTER IT IN ANOTHER STATE AND THEN ATTEMPT TO BRING IT BACK IN. That is absolutely the stupidest thing you could do. Period.

If you attempt to circumvent the DMV - who is only interested in their money in the first place - you can look forward to three things: fines, imprisonment, and the impounding of your vehicle.

The paperwork you sign clearly says "under penalty of perjury." It is a FEDERAL OFFENSE to take a VIN number from another vehicle and use it. If you put a 1965 VIN number on your car, and your car is NOT that vehicle, your car will be impounded for at least six months, at $74 a day. And if you registered that car with that VIN number (under penalty of perjury) you could do time at a federal facility, as well as pay a huge fine.

You will lose your car. Do not take the above advice. You could go to jail. Do not do anything to raise red flags.

Register your car properly, pay the fees, and enjoy your car.

Your pal,
Meat.

[meat]

Originally posted by Ron61
I have a question regarding the above statement about trying to register a car built by SAI or Kirkhams or any other licensed specialty car manafacturer. In the link given, the statement is that they would not fall under SB-100 if I read it correctly. Yet if you buy a non complete car and finish it then why wouldn't it be legal to register it under SB-100. I can understand the Shelby Series 1 as that is only sold as a turn key car from my understanding. But I thought the Cobras were usually sold as rolling chassis and then you can have them do whatever amount of work you want them to do on it. So what is the difference there than hiring a person from here or any other state such as DV in Ohio to put your car together so long as you have all the necessary receipts to show the DMV what you have invested in the car ?

According to the DMV investigators that I have worked with, if it has axles, and it was made by a manufacturer, then it is a vehicle under the law, and must meet the DOT safety bits (5 MPH bumpers, properly sized rear lights, back up lights that provide illumination for a certain number of feet, side impact protection, collapsible steering column, retractable 3-point seat belts, mirrors that are a certain number of inches, air bags for both driver and passenger, headlights that are a certain number of inches off the ground, all the smog equipment for the current year of the car when it's first registered, ODBII stuff, etc.

Shelby American / Venture is an automobile manufacturer. The cars they produce must meet all of the safety and smog regs for the year the car is manufactured.

That includes crash testing to show how the required crumple zones work.

Kit cars - like the kind produced by Kirkham, ERA, FFR, EM, Unique ... well, pretty much everyone that is a part of the kit car industry and isn't trying to shut it down, like late-comer Shelby - are exactly that: kits. If your kit car is built by a third party (not you or an automobile manufacturer, or their affiliates) that's okay, in the eyes of the California DMV.

Your pal,
Meat.

[Excaliber]

Meat,,,,,so what if you buy a car that IS all ready registered in another state? Why is that "different" than registering out of state and them bringing it back in?

Ernie

[meat]

Originally posted by Excaliber Meat,,,,,so what if you buy a car that IS all ready registered in another state? Why is that "different" than registering out of state and them bringing it back in?

Exactly what you just said, that's the difference. If you're buying a car from another state and bringing it in, that's different than taking a car out of state, registering it, and then bring it back in. That falls under 'washing the title,' and is a felony.

The DMV flags questionable cars. A pre-smog car coming in from another state? That's flagable. A car with an Alabama title? Flagged. Cars that are not on any computer in any state? Flagged.

Don't do any of that in California. You do not need to; we have the BEST law regarding kit cars in the U.S.! Registering your car properly will help you keep your car, will keep you out of jail, and will make the DMV happy. The DMV just wants their money. The CHP just wants to enforce the vehicle code. Nobody wants to stop you from driving your car...But if you break the law, you will go to jail.

SB100 was a godsend to the Cobra guys. The car gets registered as a brand new SPCN vehicle, with a 1965 smog exemption. What could be better? I've helped alot of people register their cars this way, and it's slick, it's easy, and it's legal.

Your pal,
Meat.

[Excaliber]

I get it! If you go out of state and then turn around and come right back in THAT is title washing. But if you really DO live out of state and bring your car in, thats OK.

Alabama must be a wild place..........

I'm growing more concerned everyday about buying a Cobra out of state (Hawaii). There is ENORMOUS trouble getting one registered here. Some still aren't done after MONTHS, others were done using the TAGS thing. At least one I know of went through in one day, no problem. Seems to be who you get at the DMV on any given day.

Ernie

[meat]

Alabama has Titles Unlimited.

Check here:

http://www.cobratrader.com/registration.html

Your pal,
Meat.

[mikee]

I would just like to thank all of you guys who have provided information, either personally by phone, or by posting on the board here.
I still have not received my cobra but now know that there is hope, one way or another.
I will heed Meat's warnings, and sort through all the other advice I received. What I am most worried about is, starting the wrong process with the DMV.
For instance, do I try to register it as it is currently registered in Michigan "65 Ford Convertible" or do I start over and use SB100 with the SB 1578 ammendment? I will work this all out, sooner or later.
The important point of my post here, is that you are all a great bunch of people, and I hope to have the chance to meet and thank each of you personally at some time in the future.

Thanks again,

mikee

[Ron61]

Meat,

Thanks for answering my question about SAI and Kirkhams. I talked to my DMV and am considerign having a car built out of state but not by a regular manafacturer and they told me as long as I produce all the receipts for the total amount of the car I would have no problem so long as it wasn't built by a licensed car manafacturer like Ford, Chevy, & etc. The woman I talked to even toldme that I could just get a receipt for the whole rolling chassis instead of each part like rear end, shocks, etc. Then of course for the body, motor, tranny, paint, interior and so fortyh but they would just as soon not have a receipt for every nut and bolt as they already have enought paper work. She was very kind and helpful and that is why I was wondering how you could register a Shelby under SB-100.

Ernie,

Meat didn't begin to emphasize enough what can happen when you use the take it out of state and register it and then bring it back method. I have a friend who did this and I know from personal experience what he went through. All that saved him from losing everything is he has almost unlimited resources and literally paid his way out of that mess. Don't even think about doing that !!!

Ron

[meat]

Originally posted by Ron61 "...Thanks for answering my question about SAI and Kirkhams. I talked to my DMV and am considerign having a car built out of state but not by a regular manafacturer and they told me as long as I produce all the receipts for the total amount of the car I would have no problem so long as it wasn't built by a licensed car manafacturer like Ford, Chevy, & etc. The woman I talked to even toldme that I could just get a receipt for the whole rolling chassis instead of each part like rear end, shocks, etc. Then of course for the body, motor, tranny, paint, interior and so fortyh but they would just as soon not have a receipt for every nut and bolt as they already have enought paper work. She was very kind and helpful and that is why I was wondering how you could register a Shelby under SB-100..."

Here's an important point to remember as well: The amount of tax you have to pay, and the lic/reg is based on the receipts you produce. In California, the DMV is not supposed to charge you tax on labor - only on parts that you have not already paid tax on.

For example, let's say that you buy an engine in CA, pay tax on it, buy a tranny from a different state via the internet, don't pay tax on it, and have the entire thing assembled by a mechanic.

You have already paid tax on the engine. Make sure you show this on the receipt.

You have to pay tax on the transmission, as you have not paid tax on it yet.

You do no pay tax on the mechanic's labor.

And, to further confuse the issue, if you buy something from out of state, and actually physically purchase it in the other state - paying the necessary tax for that state, you have to pay the difference in the two sales taxes when you register the car. For example, if the tax in Nevada is 4%, and California tax is 8.75%, you will still owe 4.75% tax to California. Neat, huh?

My recommendation would be to do exactly what the FFR and Superformance guys have done: take down a copy of the magazine ad showing the price of the kit, take down receipts for the drivetrain, and use that to get the tax basis for your car. The benefits to doing it this way should be obvious - and not just from a simplification of the paperwork standpoint, either. The downside is that when dealing with your insurance company, they may want to know how the DMV came up with the sales tax amount.

In either case, it looks like I'm going to be helping someone re-register their bathtub Speedster here next week, so I'll get to see how the new and improved law works!

Your pal,
Meat.