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02-22-2003, 04:44 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: St. Lucia, West Indies,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique 427SC 383 stroker
Posts: 3,765
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Not Ranked
Incredible machines, both of them! As far as accuracy compared to an original vintage Cobra goes, both are at a level where the only thing they're missing is the fact that they're not manufactured in the 60's. Pedigree wise, comparing them is like comparing an original AC COB# car to an original Shelby CSX# car. The only tangible difference is in the serial number and the badging, but the Shelby carries a premium because it's a Shelby. I can say this with no slight towards the awesome Kirkham product - but in my opinion, Brett's car is probably pretty close to the pinnacle of the replica pile simply due to the nature of its build. The only other car that would compare favourably with these two is the dry sumped 427 comp car manufactured by AC. Has anyone seen one up close?
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Tropical Buzz
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the strength to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. -(wasn't me)
BEWARE OF THE DOGma!! Dogmatism bites...
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02-22-2003, 04:55 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: St. Lucia, West Indies,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique 427SC 383 stroker
Posts: 3,765
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Not Ranked
Here's a pic from the AC website. Detail wise, about as real as you can get.
__________________
Tropical Buzz
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the strength to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. -(wasn't me)
BEWARE OF THE DOGma!! Dogmatism bites...
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02-22-2003, 08:58 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Bay Area,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: What Cobra?
Posts: 7,193
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Not Ranked
From Left to Right
DAVE SEMKO
DAN SEMKO
JAMO
COMPUTERWORKS
DAVID KIRKHAM
GLENNN
U-2 DRIVER
TOM KIRKHAM
TURK
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OBAMA IN in 2012
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02-22-2003, 09:09 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: CAV GT40 with 331 KC
Posts: 2,187
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Not Ranked
Brett - correct in your assumption!
I don't think that any of these cars are identical.
PB  |
02-22-2003, 09:38 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ridgewood,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham or the Evil Empire. Do kids NEED college?
Posts: 322
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Not Ranked
am I the only one who thinks the rear fender line of the AC looks like the Superformance fender?
Also we've had a long thread(s) on the chrome rollbar and it's problems with tech and yet all the 4000s have these chunky chrome bars. Do owners have problems on track days?
Just for the record I think Kirham and Kimmons make a cobra that Shelby would be proud of. SAI does have a vested interest in pushing a Kimmons over a Kirkham due to the fact you can't buy them from anyone but him.
untill Kimmons joins the board and does some of the selfless things the Kirkhams have done -Kirkham will get my money when and if I can scrape together the bucks.
pk
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02-22-2003, 10:40 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
Adding to Turk's listing, Pat Buckley took the picture with my camera--this was the only picture I was in during KISS thanks to Pat. 
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Jamo
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02-22-2003, 10:48 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA,
Posts: 1,389
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Not Ranked
Thanks for the easy pic comparison Jamo, Iv'e looked at least twenty times..............still cant put my finger on it ..............I am not trying to start one of those moronic "most original replica " debates since I dont want to pay the price of admission, but................those two "Shelbys" are different.
Now i have to go apologize to my car for all the oggleing and lusting.
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Foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of tiny minds
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02-22-2003, 10:55 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
KK
Only posted the pics so folks could see what cars were being discussed. I think you're looking at windshield rake differences--makes the rest of the lines change.
IMHO--I was extremely happy with my 20 year old Butler--set a high standard for the Kirkham to be measured by for me.
Here's a pic of Dick Smith's and other originals at SAAC 27 for reference...
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Jamo
Last edited by Jamo; 02-22-2003 at 11:10 AM..
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02-22-2003, 11:44 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
I recently got a chance to see up close and personal a Butler and I was IMPRESSED! Thats a heck of car all right.
Whats up with the front bumper on Dicks car? Kinda interesting.
The Kimmons car does indeed seem to have a more upright rack to the windshield. I can't tell from these recent posted pics, but in the previous ones:
It appears to have a bigger flange on the lip over the rear wheels also.
Also, the lighting for the pictures seems to make a HUGE difference in the "patina". Some pics look more "shiny" than others. I thought Bretts car almost look "polished" in one pic, same for the Kirkham. But in others they both look more natural.
Ernie
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02-22-2003, 11:52 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Texas,
Tx
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4039 427 FE 1966- SOLD
Posts: 749
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Not Ranked
Ernie. The previous owner of 4039 had waxed it. (!) When we removed the wax, it became almost impossible to photograph! That's why there is a difference in some of the photos. We didn't really polish it, just stripped the wax.
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My carbon footprint is bigger than your carbon footprint.
Last edited by CSX 4039; 02-22-2003 at 11:55 AM..
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02-22-2003, 11:59 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
I see! Thanks for clearing that up Brett.
Ernie
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02-22-2003, 11:59 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
yup
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Jamo
Last edited by Jamo; 02-22-2003 at 12:28 PM..
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02-22-2003, 07:04 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Evans,
CO
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 289 FIA, 347 stroker with Weber 48's, building a '48 Anglia gasser, driving a '55 Chevy resto-rod
Posts: 3,119
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Not Ranked
Guys it doesn't really make a difference, Kirkham,Kimmons, AC, Shelby--most anyone here would probably trade their car, left nut, wife and first born to own one 
Brett--one beautiful car!
Jamo- ditto!
Pat---ditto!
Turk--ditto!
Ron--ditto!
Evan--ditto!
and to any other "tin boys" I've missed--Ditto!
You all have good one, nit-pickin' you hear! 
They are all a tad different, from 60's originals, but from what I've learned here from the Cobra guru's even the originals could be different from one another in some aspect.
If I could afford one it would probably be a Kirkham just because of their unselfish contributions--not to say I',m knocking any of the others.
And if money was "no problem"( ) it would be an original 60's CSX
__________________
"Breathe in... Breathe out... then move on with life. Lifes too short to sweat the small stuff"
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02-22-2003, 09:15 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Jersey,
N.J
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
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Not Ranked
Kobrakarl: As with the original series there may be some slight variations in shape ie. height of rear hip etc..So your observations may be right.
The Bolte car is a dead ringer for the #98 car. The Kirkham car does look more like the Dick Smith #98 car.
In the end it doesn't matter though. Both the Kimmons bodied Shelby and the Kirkham bodied Shelby (the more numerous of the two) are both correct for Cobras since they are both...COBRAS!.
That simplifies matter.
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U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.
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02-22-2003, 09:18 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Northport,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, KMP178 / '66 GT350H, 4-speed
Posts: 10,362
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Not Ranked
...I have a much softer pastina than you, Evan.
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02-22-2003, 09:20 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
my scoop makes a metal sound when you tap it... 
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Jamo
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02-22-2003, 09:29 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Evans,
CO
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 289 FIA, 347 stroker with Weber 48's, building a '48 Anglia gasser, driving a '55 Chevy resto-rod
Posts: 3,119
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Not Ranked
bb/sb, real vs. fake, right rivet count/wrong rivet count, exactly "right " color/ shade, "right" tires, AND now we have "patina" 
BTW uric(sp) does strange things to bare aluminum
__________________
"Breathe in... Breathe out... then move on with life. Lifes too short to sweat the small stuff"
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02-22-2003, 09:32 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Northport,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, KMP178 / '66 GT350H, 4-speed
Posts: 10,362
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Not Ranked
...pastina
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02-22-2003, 09:39 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
Assolutely--only way to make good pastina is with arruminum. 
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Jamo
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02-25-2003, 07:25 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SOUTH FLORIDA,
Posts: 135
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Not Ranked
FE BLOCK CORRECTNESS
I HEARD ON SPEED CHANNEL THIS SUNDAY, A HEMMINGS OR MOTOR TREND DOCUMENTARY STATING THAT SHELBY FIRST USED A FEW ALUMINUM 390 ENGINES IN THE BEGINNING OF THE '63 RACING SEASON, PRE 427 CARS.
IF THIS IS CORRECT, IS A 390 AN ALLOWABLE BLOCK FOR AN ATTEMPT TO HAVE AN ACCURATE EARLY WIDE BODY REPLICA?
I HAVE HEARD CRITICISM WHEN 390 BLOCKS ARE USED ....
B. SMITH
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