The "Flip Top" Invoice: Snakeeyes has a Coronary

[Cal Metal]

Rich Mason of CSX 2196 Flip Top fame sent me some very interesting photocopies of the SAI fire sale in 1966. The one posted below belongs to the infamous Flip Top. Check out that final selling price.

I think Snakeeyes should have given up some of that Ivy League tuition money and transferred it to Carroll, instead. Talk about "right place, right time". Enjoy and dream........

Hopefully, Computerworks Ron, will get it posted some time this evening.

[computerworks]

[snakeeyes]

Ivy League tuition money...my alma mater's present-day tuition would barely buy that thing. Forget taht, anyhow, I'd have been donating BODY PARTS to raise the cash.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), I hadn't been born yet...

Cal, oh Financial Guru, what does that invoice translate to in 2003 dollars?

[computerworks]

Bob...that won't lessen the pain...
Using the Cost of Living Calculator ...
$3000. in 1966 translates into $16,657.41 in 2002 dollars.

[Cal Metal]

If you invested the $3,160 with someone other than me, the number would be just shy of $50,000 ($3,160@8% for 36yrs).
Invested with me, considerably less.

The only smart person in this scenario is Rich Mason. The rest of us are simply Flip Top wannabees--some more than others, I might add............

[snakeeyes]

Thanks a bunch, guys.

Just a guess--I'll bet Rich paid a tad more than $17K for 2196...

[Jamo]

Snakeeyes

Cal emailed me a couple of weeks ago giggling about this.

[snakeeyes]

I can't believe he's been able to contain himself from posting it for this long.

I would imagine there's a deal like that sitting out there right now, and that 35 years from now a bunch of enthusiasts will be sitting around wishing they had been so prescient...I'm just not smart enough to recognize those kinds of deals. Heck, with my "Mesquite (not Ivy) League" edumacation I'm lucky to put the same color socks on in the morning...

[Cal Metal]

C'mon Bob.....I saw that Princeton Blazer hanging in the back of your exquisitely appointed Ford diesel concept truck when you came up to pick up the GTD.

[snakeeyes]

Oh, that. I stole it off some guy in Coke-bottle glasses in the restroom of a Flying J truck stop.

[STG]

It's really amazing top see that $3,160 invoice from 1966. I was in the second grade back then and talked my dad into buying a '66 Dodge Charger. I wanted the 426 Hemi, he wanted the 318 V8. Wre compromised on a 383 4 Barrel. I recall that Dodge cost somewhere around $3,500 new.

Maybe Cal can help me out here, but I seem to recall that CSX2196 had a less than illustrious racing career (hence the "Turd" nickname) and this history may have contributed to the lower price. Didn't CS get considerably more for his old winning race cars?

Anyway, I'll be that CSX2196 didn't look like this in 1966!

[Cal Metal]

It certainly didn't have the history of the Coupes or the FIA snakes, but one has to remember that it was really the 427 prototype, which morphed, eventually, into the production car and the S/C racers. In that respect, it is very significant.

Additionally, the 'flip top' characteristics make it a true one-of-a-kind. The Miles connection cements the whole history. There were really three key operational people at SAI: Brock, Miles, and Remington. Miles combined the best of both worlds, in that he had an excellent knowledge pertaining to chassis design and was, in addition, a great driver. IMHO, the "Flip Top" besides the Coupes would be the most valuable, today, of all the cars SAI built.

As far as the sales price in 1966, I don't think the $3,000 reflects much of anything. Most of these cars, including the Coupes, were old race cars. Tom Greatorex, who took CSX 2287 to Bonneville and set numerous land speed records, was offered that car for $800.00. The other Coupes reputedly sold in the $3,000 to $7,000 range. History and accomplishment meant nothing back then.

As Remington once told me, after the '65 Championship season, all eyes were focused on the GT program and the J-Car.

[snakeeyes]

The Flip Top, which was affectionately referred to as "The Turd" around Shelby American, has been discussed in a lot of detail on this forum several times. A few months back I posted a bunch of detail shots of the car that CC member Terry Krystofiak was kind enough to send me. Those who are interested can do a search and probably pull up more info than you ever wanted to know.

The car holds a unique position in Shelby lore, probably because of the "what could have been" notion; it is the lightest roadster Shelby (Miles) built, with one of the most powerful engines they ever put in one of their team cars. In many ways it is the "ultimate" Cobra, at the very least the ultimate leaf-spring car. By all accounts it was no more than an interesting diversion for Miles and crew. If they had given it serious development time it probably would have enjoyed more success, although front-engined race cars were quickly becoming antiquated. Like the Corvette Grand Sports--Chevrolet's Flip Top, if you will--CSX 2196 was the pinnacle of a class of sports cars that technology had already passed by.

2196 raced at Sebring in '64 with Miles and Morton. At that time it had not been built into the Flip Top but had a conventional Cobra body--albeit one with cooling holes punched in the nose and flared fenders to accomodate wider tires--and a 427. The car DNF'd. It was then transformed into the Flip Top and raced at Nassau in '64. The car was very quick, as the pictures in "Carroll Shelby's Racing Cobra" will attest, but suffered from a number of teething problems that meant it retired from the various races in which it was entered in the Bahamas that year. The car never raced again for Shelby American and was sold at the famous fire sale to a gentleman from, I think, the San Francisco area. It ran some SCCA events in the ensuing years, driven by racers such as Dave Ridenour. Ultimately, being just another used race car, there was even a plan to turn it into a circle track racer, if I'm recalling correctly. Thankfully that never came to fruition and the car instead languished for years before showing up at some vintage events in the early '80's. It is now in the loving and appreciative hands of Rich Mason, who thankfully recognizes the interest enthusiasts have in the car and accordingly brings it out most years to places like Monterey (where I had the good fortune to drive it around the paddock last year, the ride of my life ).

Sigh. $3,160.00...

[PDHse]

Has anyone got any pictures of the fliptop after it was sold in 66,when driven by the likes of Dave Ridenour to post on cc.

[snakeeyes]

Paul, I've never seen a photo of it from that era. One of us needs to ask Mr. Mason--

[snakeeyes]

Rich said he does not have any pictures from the post-Shelby era, unfortunately. He said the car was painted white for a time after it was sold, perhaps with a blue stripe. Also mentioned he saw it at Monterey in 1980, when it was either very, very light blue or silver. He has had the car painted since he purchased it, in a more "correct" color scheme--

[TERRY M KRYSTOFIAK]

GOSH GUYS, MY COMPUTER HAS BEEN DOWN FOR A WEEK AND I ALMOST MISSED OUT ON A GREAT TOPIC. THE PURCHASE PRICE FROM THE FIRE SALE WAS ALOT OF MONEY BACK THEN. AL RIVERA OF S&C FORD WAS A GOOD FRIEND.....IM SURE I MADE HIS HOUSE PAYMENT MORE THAN ONCE. IN FACT, WHEN BILL COSBYS TWIN PAXTON CAR WAS AT S&C FORD HE TRIED TO SELL IT TO ME. MY DAD WOULD'T SIGN THE LOAN, AND BEING THE "SALESMAN" HE WAS, SOLD ME THE "NEW"GT500, #0962. THAT DIDN'T WORK AND WENT ON TO CSX2192.
THE HISTORICAL VALUE OF THE FLIP TOP, ALONG WITH THE LINAGE OF MILES, REM.,AND OTHERS MAKES IT ONE OF THE MOST PHOTO SHOT COBRAS. JUST GO TO A HISTORICAL EVENT AND WATCH THE CAMERAS CLICK!! THIS PROTOTYED CAR IN ITS FIRST RACE LEFT THE GRAN SPORTSWAY BEHIND ....ON THE FIRST LAP! IT SHOWED WHAT COULD BE DONE WITH ALITTLE R&D. WHERE WOULD THE "LEGIONS" BE TODAY WITHOUT THE VISION OF MILES ETC.THE GRAN SPORT MAY HAVE GONE ON TO EVEN MORE GLORY. THE BEST PART ABOUT THE CAR TODAY IS IT DOESNT SIT UNUSED IN A SHOWROOM, AND THE MAN WHO OWNS IT LETS IT BE DRIVEN. HIS ATTITUDE IS HE IS JUST THE "CURRENT" KEEPER OF THE CAR. WHEN ASKED TO PUT IT ON DISPLAY (PETERSEN MUSEUM. DETROIT AUTO SHOW ETC.) HE SHARES AT HIS OWN EXPENSE. I HAVE DRIVEN MY SHARE OF COBRAS (REALLY NEVER ENOUGH) AND THIS CAR IS ONE SCAREY PIECE OF MACHINE.I HOPE THAT ALL COBRA LOVERS SOMEDAY WILL HAVE THE CHANCE TO SEE THE IMAGINATION OF THE MILES TEAM. IF YOU ARE A NOR-CAL CLUB MEMBER, THE APRIL SPRING FLING AT THUNDERHILL THE CAR SHOULD BE THERE TO BRAKE IN THE NEW AL BLOCK MOTOR...THE CAR IS GETTING READY FOR THE MONTEREY HISTORICS.