Substituting Shelby block for Iron SO

[NSXDRIVER]

I'm the guy that just ordered the ERA. Been stewing for years over the whole SB/BB debate, and have elected to go BB. (Discussion of that point is NOT the intention of this post) I'm partial to the side oiler, but after pricing blocks and considering the inherent risks of paying that amount of money for a vintage part, I'm leaning hard toward the Shelby aluminum block. Here's my question: It seems that $10-12k is a good round number for a complete, authentic side oiler. If I am starting with an engine builder from scratch, and simply specify the Shelby block instead of the vintage part, will it have a dramatic impact on final price? Of a $12k side oiler, how much of that price is the builder going to tie up in the vintage block? I've noted that some builders have the aluminum block as an option, but at the $4000 mark, wouldn't this mean that the vintage part was only being given a $1000 offset against the $5000 Shelby option?

[ENTDOC]

Keep in mind that many of the best 427 builders have accumulated many blocks over the years and may not have that much in them,so a shelby block may add significantly to the cost but his profit may be little changed. chuck

[btsai]

I am not an expert, but $12K sounds low for a good, built SO.

Anyone???

[CSX 4027]

Just remember that the iron block was made by Ford in substantial quantities back in the '60's & 70's. It is a known item and the faults and their corrections have been published forever. The Shelby is an aftermarket piece and is a topoiler. My point is that if you are going to have an engine builder do the Shelby in your build, chose one that has experience with the block. I think your estimate is low if done right. Call Mike LeFevers at Shelby. He can build you either one. At least since he designed the aluminum block, you will be getting the best there is in the build. Also, cheap now will cost you in the long run. If you look at any of my past engine threads, you will see what I mean.
Bottom line...Get a real 427 guy. It is a quirky old tech piece that they are just starting to support again in the aftermarket industry.

[Tom T.]

Steve,

Do you know why they went with a topoiler design with the new block? I know the preference on old blocks has been to use the sideoiler, supposedly to address oiling issues with the centeroiler design. This is not an issue with the new design?

Thanks,

TT

[Turk]

Only people I have heard building 427 Side Oilers for $12,000 or less is Southern Automotive.

As for a good iron block, without sleeves or cracks...be prepared to pay more than you would for a Shelby Aluminum block.

How does $7650 on ebay for a NOS FE block sound?
Where are you going to find Side Oiler blocks for $1000.00 to $2000.00?

TURK.
For a well built Side Oiler start thinking upwards of $20,000 and more.

[CSX 4027]

Cal LeFevers for the whole story. I have heard it but can't remember it verbatim. I would think that Shelby did it that way for durability, oiling etc. The sideoiler as I have read was designed for racing so I assume it was great if it lasted one race. Most of the CC guys and the majority of Cobra guys do not do a race only car. The Shelby aluminum saves the weight, disapates heat better and has the potential for big cubes.

[Specialk]

The Shelby block is based on the 417 Donovan engine I believe. They probably stuck with its oiling system. Carroll owns Arias, so maybe Arias had expierience with the Donovan block?

[bmalone]

Kris, a quick question: will TP heads (or any vintage 427 head) bolt up to the Shelby block?

I was actually thinking of purchasing a Shebly block and bottom end and build it up while still running my vintage block in the car. When the aluminum block is ready, I could then take out the vintage and store it and transfer the top end to the Shelby block. Will this work?

[NSXDRIVER]

Over $20K for a side oiler -- HOLY COW. Any idea as to why Southern Automotive's price is as "low" as it is? (Guys, that's still not cheap) I'll tell you -- I would have a lot of trouble enjoying a $20k big block, not because of a fear that it would be fragile, but because of the mere fact that I had put that much money into it. I have other cars that I can baby, I want someting I can stomp on. That 390 with aluminum heads is sounding better all the time.

[sfry]

NSX- A friend of mine bought all the Shelby stuff and built the motor himself. He had 18k into it. I bought the Southern Automotive 427 S/O and I am into it 12k. My motor came to me running. Plug and play is all it takes. Use Southern. Their motors are great. And the support is also award winning. Look at my gallerey and see how the motor arrived.

Shannon

[James Baldwin]

Sfry is right on the money (no pun inteded) in my experience.

[btsai]

Anyone know where Tom Lucas' pricing comes in? Seems like I've only read good things about him on the forum and he seems to be forthright in sharing information...

[NSXDRIVER]

sfry --

That thang's beautiful! Makes my mouth water to look at it. What kind of horespower do you get from from that beast? Southern Automotive sounds like a great place to consider.

[sfry]

Thanks NSX-I am at 500. I can't say enough about Southern. Granted I did send them the Intake and Valve covers. I only have 100 miles on it but it RUNS STRONG!!! Give Bill Parham a call. You wont regret it.

Shannon Fry

[SFfiredog]

The Shelby 427 block is NOT a center oiler or top oiler. It has a priority main oil passage that runs next to the camshaft. This passage feeds oil directly to the main bearings from the oil pump. A factory 427 side oiler does have a separate main bearing oil passage but the oil still needs to feed around the outside of cam bearings (through grooves cut in the cam journals) before it feeds down to the crankshaft. The reason the oil passage was placed where it is in the Shelby block is if someone ever broke a connecting rod (heaven forbid!) and punched a hole in the block the aluminum could easily be reaired and it would not be necessary to attempt to fix the oil passage on the side of the block. Also theoretically the motor would not loose the oil pressure lost from punching out the side oiler oil passage. The priority main oil galley is in the same location as all the other aftermarket Ford and GM racing blocks. I have my own Shelby block and have built 2 417 Arias/Donovan hemis and can tell you catagorically the only thing these two blocks have in common is they both have 10 head bolts and 8 big holes arranged in a "V"
The Arias Chevy has strengthening ribs in the lifter valley as well.
Maybe it was built from the 417 too! ALL standard FE parts
(except for a stock starter) will fit on the Shelby block. As for the original question that started this thread, Yes you are correct.
If you are having an engine built and you have to pay $4000+ for
an original side oiler and all the other components are the same,
it will only cost you $1000 to $1500 more to build the same
engine with a Shelby block.
HTH,
Mike

[Specialk]

I spoke with Mike Le Fevers today. What he said is pretty much identical to what SFfiredog posted.

[Tom T.]

Mike,

As always, thanks for sharing your expertise.

TT

[Jamo]

Yup--Firepooch be talking straight. My builder, Joe Boghosian, builds a ton of AA Fueler motors as well as 427s--pointed out all the stuff Mike just explained. And the price difference of $1000 to $1500 is about right unless you find an NOS--all of which are now owned by Turk.

Now, I've got some high-priced items in my build (Velasco cranks are not cheap) and it's about $18K in just the parts and head work--so I expect about a $25K final price, maybe more. A lot of money to be sure--but it's going in a lot of car.

[Lew Ledyard]

What is the weight difference between an iron SO block and an aluminum Shelby?

Lew