BIG BLOCK vs. small block engine

[Excaliber]

,,,,,,,,the BB vs SB debate,,,,,

,,,it's baacccckkkkkkkk

Ernie

Evan,,,,read the Twin Cities Owners thread.

[Great Asp]

On the SB vs BB question....

"Not gunna do it, wouldn't be prudent" per Geo. Bush #41

On this though.....

"Million times as much power as a Ford at half the cost".....come on, your kidding right? You going to save enough money to convert the car back over to a Ford to sell it? A simple build is cheaper with a Chevy, but custom build for horsepower is the same dollars. Million times?, don't you mean Ga-zillion times?

I personally can not stand to see one more 32 Ford coupe tricked out, with a dopey 350 in it.

Great Asp

PS Fire away!

[Fasttoyz]

WOW....LOL
I have to thank you guys for comments. But so far I have heard some really funny stuff and a few things that are making sense.

One is I really don't like the amount of room that the small block leaves. It just looks empty?
Two: Is the wow its really cool looking factor is something that works for me... ( I am building car for me).
Three: I would just hate to buy BB and get school by a sb. HATE to pay money and get ass kicked by vette or pony car with sb.
Four: I would really like to get as close as possible to lookk or 66 427 with the turkey pan and all.
The car will be a street car for the most part. I don't want to make the mistake that some of my friends have done with their HDavidson's to try and keep up with my ducati in mtns.
I don't want to buy an engine that comes with its own tuner... I want to be able to start her up and ride like a bat out of hell.
The reasons I asked about 500 Hp and Torque is because I have driven a Z06 and a Viper and love the amount of power and feel it has & if I am not mistaking they are close to the 500 mark.

I have been told that the 406 kit sold by Southern Automotive should be enough but when I look at figures... I question. They 351 C for $6400.00 has 485 hp vs the BB 406 @ 430 hp. So then I thought why not then get the 428 which has 470 Hp and it about 900.00 more, which would then give me the look or WOW as it was put earlier.
ALso wondering how reliable and how lasting would that 351 stroked out be? Would it require lots of tuning?
Also would it help me recover more of my investment in the car having the BB and WOW... if I ever sell the car?

Again a list of names or other engine builders who you guys have bought from or have had friends who had great reviews from... would be helpful.

Thanks Again in advance.
DAvidlee

[Fasttoyz]

One more thing my last comment about the list of names on all was not meant to be snappy in any way.... I am greatful to learn from your mistakes or wise choices after all you guys are where I hope to be soon...drive one badass car!!!...

also your opinions... pro and cons on your experiences with either the BB or Sb would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Davidlee

[Carroll DeWeese]

The Corvette and Viper do not have the power to weight ratio of a Cobra. Both have only about 400 hp. For a power to weight comparison, go to the following: http://performanceunlimited.com/supe...eleration.html

With either a stroked SB or a BB, your problem will be hooking up, not torque or hp. You can easily get either with 500 or more torque and hp. What you will not have is all the modern ABS, magnetic shocks, active suspension, etc. of the modern car. You will have to be a much better driver or the Cobra will bite and kill you. It is a driver's car that will fault you on virtually every mistake that you make. With lots of torque and hp, it will be unforgiving.

The original Cobras could go 0-100-0 in 12 flat. The modern Cobra can do even better. You will have plenty of "snap" with either engine. The SB has the advantage normally of better weight distribution and ease of accessbility (the empty look has advantages). If your chief goal is to impress others on the street and when you park with the hood up, get a BB. It is pure macho. If you want better handling and curve road performance, get a SB.

[Fasttoyz]

Carroll That is well put... information like this really help me. It kind of reminds me of a debate among motorcycle guys with the Vtwin vs. inline four.... Its getting clearer.
The power to weight is something I had not really given it a lot of thought. With the viper and Z06 having 400hp not 500hp. Then this little car is really going to rip along.
Is there anyone builder or builders I should call and chat with in your opinion? About my needs that you can help me with.
Also what is in your car or going TBD?
Where are heading and why?
Thanks Carroll

[TerrysSPF]

Fasttoys: One thing that you mentioned in your 1st thread was that you would like to take the car to a "road track" once in awhile. If thats the case, I'd go with a stroked SB. A lot easier to handle around those curves. If you want to take it to the drags, then go BB. At the drags, they rule........as long as you can get it to hook up.
As far as being able to stomp the ZO-6 and the Vipers, you could do that with either engine. I have a buddy with a 500HP 408 and he hasn't met a Vette / Viper that can take him yet. It's all about traction though. The Vette's / Vipers with those big fat low profile $300 a peace meats on the back will get you off the line if you're sitting there spinning your 15" BFG's. But don't worry, you'll catch up quick. Then, after you pass them and wait for them at the next red light, see if they'll look at you when they come to a stop!

[southernfriedcj]

David, You have gotten several good replies and a couple from Turk(insert rim shot here).
Let me just tell you that I dated a girl that had sex with 50 Cobra owners. She said the 25 BB guys had small Dugans and the 25 SB guys had large Dugans. Using these facts as a basis for my decision, I am going to put a SB in My 289 FIA.

edit: The girls in Boca LOVE small blocks!

[Turk]

Since resale was mentioned...I will go on a limb in here.

If you can get an 428 FE from Southern Automotive for an additional $900.00, I can guarantee you, when it comes to resale the car will bring more than $900.00 than a comparable car with a small block.

I would be willing to bet on that.
I am not going into which one is better. We have beaten that one to a pulp in earlier threads.
I am talking strictly about resale.

Are you sure it will only cost $900.00 more? How do they do it?


TURK

[KobraKarl]

FT,

Get 428.

available

authentic.

relatively inexpensive $ to bhp.

there may be a small block to beat you , but they will be few and far between.

Ooh ....Ahhh...

a small block in a Cobra will give you a sh!t eating grin... A big block will Keep it on your face!

[Excaliber]

Turk makes a strong point for the BB,

(I hate it when he does that......)

Ernie

[Edley Rondinone]

Fasttoyz: Got Snake had it right...find some Cobra owners with big blocks and small blocks and go for some rides. I have a built 351W/5 speed combo with 3.05 gears, and it is a HANDFUL! I cant imagine what the BB guys do for traction, especially with lower gears than what I have got. So, the "WOW" factor of the 427/428 may make all the difference to YOU! Weber injectors look REALLY awesome! Just remember, there will ALWAYS be someone somewhere with something nicer/faster/cheaper/more expensive/rattier/cooler/more intense/more arruminum -ier than what you GOT. The point is to GET!!! Besides, you can always make changes down the line. Just try to never be without a Cobra, once you have owned one. Just ask Ernie from Hawai'i !!! (the ex-Excaliber!!) I would think a 428 would do you well, and they are lots cheaper than the 427 SO. Good Luck!!!..............................Hey, Turk, isnt "poorly mistuned" one of them oxy-maroons, like "military intelligence?!!!

[Fasttoyz]

Well you guys have surely helped answer my question on the BB vs. sb. If anyone has anything to add please do. I certainly enjoy the off mark comments about wag size, moon pies and the here we go again’s … and don’t mean any malice or sour feelings with my responds… it’s just fun. Nothing personal.

TERRYSPF: It won’t be a competition thing on the track it would be more as (here is a place I can open up my car and not get a Ticket. I do understand that the sb would be a better weapon of choice there… With my experience on the track with motorcycles that’s why my Ducati whips on the guy who shows up with his drag racing Hayabusa with 70 hp more then my Ducati… so point is well taken and understood…thank you Terry you have cleared up what I am to expect when on the trackJ)

SOUTHERNFRIEDcj: LOL I don’t believe that FORMULA of BB=little pp and sb=BIG MANDINJO… at least that won’t be the case here. If it were a case of insecurity or ego the thread would have started out a little something like This (WOULD A BB COMPENSATE FOR MY LITTLE WAG OR CAN I FAKE IT WITH SMALL BLOCK)…. I am sure I have done some damage down in Boca Raton while living their…lol. I didn’t mean to hurt anyone with a sb feeling's … I only ask about something I was sure of. However when I get my BB I be sure to tape a picture of my wag under the hood. For those insecure sb guys who might think that way.

Turk: With Southern Automotive a 351 Cleveland w/ single 4 barrel 485 hp, 396 cid, special stroker crank, h-beam competition rods, 351 ported & polished heads = $6400.00
428 COBRA
428 COBRA - 470 HP - SINGLE 4 BARREL $7,900
428 BLOCK, 428 NODULAR IRON CRANK> 428 CJ BIG BOLT RODS PORTED & POLISHED, 428 HEADS OVERSIZED STAINLESS STEEL VALVES, COMPETITION STEEL BILLET ROCKER SHAFTS
406 COBRA
406 COBRA - 430 HP - SINGLE 4 BARREL $5900
390 BLOCK, 390 NODULAR IRON CRANK, 390 FORGED RODS, PORTED & POLISHED 390 HEADS, OVERSIZED STAINLESS STEEL VALVES, COMPETITION STEEL BILLET ROCKER ARM SHAFTS
Ok Turk $1500.00 more not $900.00 new math… I have been looking at so many different things its all getting fuzzy. Thanks for comment.
Now what do BB guys do for traction… I had planed on getting 16” rims so I can get larger rotors to fit. Any suggestion?
Thanks guys
Davidlee

[scottj]

Fasttoyz,

Most of the BB guys solve their traction problems with tire softener. Track Claw is one popular brand but most of the big block guys seem to prefer C & R's Tire Softener. It costs a bit more but after applying the C & R's to the rear tires you are guaranteed not to spin, I've seen it and it works. And since the stuff is only availible through your engine builder the SB guys can't get a hold of it.
Scott

[Fasttoyz]

thanks Scottj
but what about 15" vs. 16" and with of rims. what combo are you running? How is this tire softener working for you? How much is it?
Thanks
DL

[scottj]

Prices vary... The more expensive your "Crank & Rods" the more it costs each time you apply it. If I ran a BB I'd go with a 17" rim and a run-flat tire... for safety reasons. Scott

[Excaliber]

I recommend a DOT "R" type tire. 15 or 16 or even 17 is controversial (hey, on this site, what aint?).

Yokohama auto x tires, for instance, are "legal" for the street and offer WAY more traction than any regular "street" tire. I see Hersh is running those on his GT-40, good call.

Also, I like "bolt on" wheels instead of "knock offs" because I like to have a couple of sets of rims and tires mounted. Some for street, strip, or track. A second set of "knock offs" will set you back some serious dollars.

Ernie

[Fasttoyz]

Hey Ernie
It seem I will have to get 16's in order to get larger brakes with Unique from what I understand. What size are you using ?
I was thinking about 16 x 8 in the front and 16 x10 rear. Is anyone else running something like this?

DL

[Fasttoyz]

Back to engine thing...
What builders should I contact about my BB engine?

thanks DL

[terry lee]

HEY FASTTOYZ,
I don't know where you are in So. Fla., after 33 years down here your town is new to me. Anyhow, I am located at the south end of Palm Beach. If you want all the answers to your questions, come check out my car and engine setup.
Call me at: (561) 540-2525
E-mail: tml427@bellsouth.net
Terry Lee