One carb or two

[computerworks]

Originally posted by Alex Donghi
Ron
Thanks for the close up. What I wanted to see was where you had the linkage hooked up in the rear carb. My old old r motor from the sixties in a galaxy had different linkage all mechanical. Which springs you runing in the secandary vacume pots?
thanx

Alex, here is a shot of the rear carb.



Thanks for presuming these are mine, but, sadly, this is not my car.

These are pictures of CSX3042, an original S/C

Karl..the 'Gold Portfolio' book is not a very accurate source, in general.

Originally posted by Real1
There are also other sources which document that some S/C's also originally came with dual quads.

Evan, name one, please.

Also, Evan,...go to your control panel and enable notification of Private Messages.

[REAL 1]

Ron: You are becoming a pain the @$$. You want the specific cars that came with duals??? Stop being so...well..anal.

I will look at my sources tonight. There are others besides the Gold Portfolio series.

So far the sources are the Gold Porfolio, Special K, Billy Andrews. I will supply others.

I can document sources that establish SC's came with dual quads but I can't name the specific CSX numbers except CSX 3042 for now. But thats enough for me. But oh no not you. Oh nooo. You want more.

Man you are a pain in the BUTT!

[computerworks]

Hey...barrister.... I'm just asking for admissable evidence, that's all.

What else could it be but the CSX's?

BTW, your e-mail address is no good.

[pderouss]

"Original AC Ace and Cobra" by Rinsey Mills shows that the S/C was fitted with both single and dual carbs. It also states that all roadgoing cars were fitted with dual carbs and all competition cars with a single.

Interestingly it also says that all chassis numbers up to CSX3053 were built as competition cars for homologation purposes. That does not tie up with the description of CSX 3042 as an S/C .

[computerworks]

yeah... the ONLY S/C in that book is 3042 (!)

All 30xx cars were originally built as Comp cars. After only selling 19 or so, they converted the remainder to S/Cs.
All S/Cs have a CSX30xx number

[Cal Metal]

Here might be some help, gentleman. According to the Registry on the 427 Cobra Specification Differences:

Street: 427 low riser with 2X4bbl; some with 428 medium riser
Police Interceptor SOME with 1X4bbl.

S/C : 427 medium riser (most with 2X4bb); a few with 1X4bbl.

Full Comp: High Riser (medium optional) w/1X4bbl. @485 h.p.

My best guess on the first two is that, whether or not a car received one carb or two, might have been based on customer demand as well as availability. 427 engines were fairly scarce back then--it was not a high production engine--and the NASCAR crowd took precedence over any other program within Ford. I suspect the 2X4bbl. issue could have suffered the same fate.

[REAL 1]

Pderouss/Cal: Thanks. Rinsey Mills and the Registry are other sources that documents SC's as being fitted with dual quads.

Remember the first 53 chasis were built as comp cars. After failure to homologate for FIA it was then the remaining cars that were not sold as comp cars were fitted out to SC specs (street/competition)

Ron: I don't think there are any records that detailed that will tell us what cars had singles and what cars had duals.

The information in recognized treatises and books such as Rinsey Mills and the Registry is a good source. Good enough for me anyway.

[computerworks]

So, ...."some" is admissable?

[REAL 1]

In this Kangaroo court anything is admissable!

[KobraKarl]

Ok Ron I'll bite ................since every reference I (or aparently any one else) can find seems to suggest 2x4 carbs were the predominate configuration on the S/C cars, why your implied scepticism? you are one of the guys here that can usually "back your play" what is your info??? Karl

[computerworks]

Karl -

...it's not hardcore skepticism.
I'm just questioning the frequently-quoted line that "..most S/Cs came with 2x4..."
If you lay all the Cobra books out, side by side, you see one author paraphrasing what the other said.
There is so little depth in print about the S/C history.

I just think that more cars came with 1x4 than people think.

I looked thru my files and pulled the data for 8 'well-known' S/Cs:

CSX3015 - Twin Paxton, so, 2x4
CSX3022 - restored to orig - 1x4
CSX3025 - SCG article 1981 - 1x4
CSX3032 - Bill Murray, Shelby Museum - orig config - 1x4
CSX3036 - recent full restoration - 1x4
CSX3039 - Old Car Illustrated article - 1x4
CSX3042 - SAAC-27 Concours winner - 2x4
CSX3052 - original owner - 1x4

Six of the eight have 1x4.

This may be no big deal to most, but if you are a self-admitted buff (like me) the proportion is significant.

(...plus, a little bit of this is just breaking Evan's chops)

[kountzecobra]

Ron, the real question is..."How many of the single-four equipped Cobras WISHED they had dual-fours?"

[computerworks]

Venturi-envy!

[KobraKarl]

Ron I"m sure you're right as far as these books go about paraprasing /plagerizing each other especialy in the great vaccuum of any significant body of documentation ,but........I would suspect over time probably more were converted to 1x4 from 2x4 than the reverse just for drivability. Also since CSI was fitting its street cars with 2x4 almost simultaniously it dosn't seem much of a stretch ..........as for busting Evan's chops....sheesh ..........shootin fish in a barrell............

[Excaliber]

I recall some of the early 60's Austin Healey 3000's came with 3 side draft carbs as an option. There were SO problematic to keep in tune it wasn't long before the factory dropped the option.

Today, the "triple carb" model is THE one to have, even if you can't make it run decent, it LOOKS cool.

Two fours look WAY cool. I do my own tuning, so I would be tempted to get a "pair". But at the same time, I would not recommend it to my friends.

Ernie

[pderouss]

The plagiarisation problem is the bane of all history books on any subject. It's a great shame that Friedman appears to stop photographing Cobras so soon after the 427 was introduced - otherwise there would be a much more reliable record.

From his photos is there any dispute that the competition cars had a single? If you follow a certain logic then singles (Le Mans type) should produce more power and be less prone to surge on corners. As a result many of the S/C's may have been converted to them. My own car was originally subject to surge after hard right hand cornering. I can assure you that there is nothing more frustrating than nailing the throttle (as soon as you dare) only to have the engine splutter on you. Many people would soon want to eradicate this problem if it shows up when driving on duals. Does anyone have current experience of how on they perform under hard cornering conditions?

By the way, remember that one of the advantages of winning wars is that you get to write the history books.

[Turk]

If I wanted an engine with ony one carb, I would have put in a SB not an FE..

TURK

[Cal Metal]

Correct, Turk. The SB with two carbs would produce WAY more power than what most people could adequately handle.

[Turk]

Cal,
You too?

TURK

[REAL 1]

Ron: I don't see any need to worry about which CSX #'s came with what configuration. Stop it already. Stop the insanity! Go back to your original wiring diagram.

The simple fact is 2x4's were an original configuration for SC's and are correct for an SC spec car. So are 1x4's. Does it really matter which configuration was predominant? No. It doesn't. There.

1x4's are better for track work. Although my dual quads run fine, if you really corner hard to the right there will be a slight (I mean very slight) hesitation upon applying throttle. Not enough to bother me for the street. But if racing where every nano second counts you might want a single quad.

But nothing beats the look of dual quads. Well maybe a full set of Webers but thats not correct for an SC!