Manufacturers Statment of Origin

[mr bruce]

Anybody still have theirs? Was it issued by the state of your cars manufacturer? Does it have the states seal? Or, Is it just a made up piece of official looking paper?

[hound dog]

mr. bruce,
It's a certificate issued by your car's manufacturer. You take it, together with what other papers your state requires down to the license bureau and they use that to issue you a title.
h dog

[mr bruce]

When you buy a real car, the dealer gets an MSO,from the factory, to verify where this new car came from(GM, FoMoCo, etc) The STATE then issues a Title for said car. What I'm getting at is, since these kit mfg are selling you a pile of parts, not a real car, is the state issuing MSOs for the parts or is the MFG of the kit just giving you an official looking piece of paper, calling it an MSO. Some even calling them 1965s.

[hound dog]

mr. bruce,
When I bought my deluxe pallet kit from Unique, the MSO came from Unique, and I would assume that the same is true for ERA, Kirkham, etc. I've never bought a FFR so I don't know about them. With FFR you have the parts car which presumably has a title. I did have to post an indemnity bond with North Carolina to cover the engine and transmission just in case someone says they are stolen. I don't see how the state can issue a MSO on an automobile, but they can make you post bond if you don't have one from the manufacturer.
h dog

[Clois Harlan]

MR. Bruce,

I back doored mine. I sent my bill of sale to New Hampshire for registration in NH. The person I sent my B.O.S. to assigned the registration back to me. I did this so I could get my car registered and titled as a 1966 Ford Cobra. When I registered my car here in Tulsa I gave them the N.H. registration and assignment and the agent came out and checked my car for serial numbers. Everything matched and my registration cost me $5.00 and my annual tag cost me only $22.00. My car now falls under the catagory of classic or antique.

In short all I needed was my insurance varifacation and a bill of sale from my manufacturer to get my car registered.

Clois

[Chaplin]

Mr. Bruce-
Company, whether it be ERA, FFR, Unique, etc., provides the MSO for what they provide- usually body and frame. In NJ, at least, when obtaining a title, you need the MSO and receipts for all other items to prove that they weren't stolen.

[Bob Putnam]

The MSO requirement may vary from state to state. I know that for some reason (I wasn't directly involved) we had to buy some very expensive, embossed MSO forms, sequentiallly numbered. This was after we had been in business for quite a while, so either things had changed nationally, or it was for a single state.

[Neal Jackson]

It's all a matter of the states and feds being able to keep track via registration of what's on the road. With the documentation from the mfg, the state is able to document the completed car. State titles probably aren't gonna be issued on imcomplete or non-complying autos. When a mfg sends a box of parts they also send appropriate documentation (MSO or C of O or bill of sale) so the vehicle, when completed and in compliance, can qualify for registration and titling.

[Mike I]

Mr Bruce,
Don't know about other states, but the MSO I received from E-M was issued by the state of Florida and it looked identical to a FL title except that it included info identifying the vehicle as a replica. My understanding at the time was that E-M had to petition the state (at my request) to issue the MSO on their behalf, so that they could transfer legal ownership of the incomplete vehicle (VIN number stamped on plate attached to the body) to me. I then had to turn in the MSO to the DMV when I went through the title process. Hope this helps.

~ Mike ~

[mr bruce]

Thanks for the replys ,guys. Mike ,yours is exactly what I am looking for. Sounds just the way it is done in Pennsylvania( is Florida a Commonwealth?) I have a car going to Italy and it requirers a WMI number. Some kit car companys are making up their own MSOs with the wrong number sequence to work in PA. Each state may be differnt The more digging I do the greyer things get. Some states (and countrys)consider the frame a "car". Others ,the body, Some say it can't be a car if it's just parts. Very tough to find out what the correct way to do things is.

[Jack Zupan]

bruce,

My MSO was issued by Superformance and essentially says the chassis and body are made of new component parts. My agent (in PA) immediately said kit car when he read it. Anyway I tried to title it as a 2002 car but I don't have a 17 digit VIN which PA looks for and will kick the application out if it's not there. The MSO states that the id number is a chassis number. Anyway after six weeks the state kicked the application back and asked for a re-application under specialty/reconstructed vehicle. I don't know if this will be a problem or not.

The MSO did come from the manufacturer. I don't see how it can come from the state.

Jack Z.

[mr bruce]

A fellow posted a pic of his MSO on the all F5 website, and it doesn't have the 17 digit/letter sequence either.(Wonder how F5 buyers from PA are getting their cars titled?)( unless they are just using the bill of sale. That's all the current PA paperworks says is needed, mso OR bill of sale) I'm surfing all over the web today trying to crack this nut, but will have to get on the phone next week to get the real story.

[Neal Jackson]

McBuana,

Hi Tech sent me a "Certificate of Origin" that had only their Hi Tech sequence number showing on it. No 17 digit VIN at all. Arizona would have issued their own VIN and stuck a tag on the car accordingly.

The Hi Tech C of O also referred to me as a "distributor or dealer", which I wasn't. I was just a buyer.

Sounds like Florida and PA MVDs have a bit more "hands on" during the process if they are having their local manufacturers submit to them to receive an MSO.

[Mike I]

Mr Bruce, Neal,
As is generally the case within bureaucratic municipalities, the right hand is generally clueless as to what the left hand is doing. My E-M VIN is a 17 digit alpha-numeric number stamped on a plate attached to the body. There is also a VIN tag on the chassis that has a different 17 digit A-N number (purchased chassis and body separately, years apart), but its not used for anything. When I first went to the DMV assigned inspection station in Jacksonville, I was told that they would assign a new FL VIN, via a sticker attached to the steel instrument panel support hoop inside the car, even though I had a FL issued MSO and 17 digit VIN allready assigned. They were going to treat it as an "Assembled from Spare Parts" registration, which is how they do it for a completely home built vehicle with no identifiable manufacturer. In other words, they were going to completely ignore the MSO until I called the main office in Tallahassee and pleaded my case. I won't even go into some of the other crap they put me through!!!

~ Mike ~

[Rogers]

Bruce,
I have built 2 Classic Roadsters both have the MSO. This with the adhesive tag with the number is not good enough for Missouri.
I had to trailer my first car to the state patrol inspection station.....30 miles. They classified it as a salvage car. Checked the engine and tranny numbers. Lots of beaurocratic crap...wants you to be sure and vote republican. Finally cost me tax on the engine, tranny and cost of the kit. I had to pay on 17,000!!! I need some feed-back on using an out-of-state title service. I've seen ads for an Alabama and Las Vegas service. Is this the same as signing over your car? Also how do I come up with a VIN# of the 60'S. Is it an eleven digit number? I don't feel real good about signing over my car....