Search Warrants and All

[computerworks]

The thread is about a situation emerging in Calif. that may impact the titles of other members.

Please keep it on topic.

ron
Club Cobra Moderator

[petek]

Dunk Tank??? Hey, cool idea! Take contributions to vote somebody into the tank!

[6T5 Cbra]

"The thread is about a situation emerging in Calif. that may impact the titles of other members."

Well, sort of. This thread is about a situation that someone 'said' was happening in CA. I have read and heard that there are some things going on in CA regarding titles and such (and I'm sure there are a few), but I believe this post is bogus. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I for one, would like to see some follow up details from Vprhunter.

Let's look at the facts.

Vprhunter

1. Posts = 1 - Potential troll trying to ruffle some feathers? That's the first question that came to my mind. BTW, the ruffling seems to be working! Sad

2. "5 CHP's" - Seems highly unlikely given the nature of the 'crime'.

3. "..... and if so what is up?" - Wouldn't the search warrant specify what they are looking for? Besides that, anyone who visits the board regularly would already have the answer to this question.

4. If I were served a search warrant, for any reason, posting on this board would be the last thing on my mind! I would think that most of you would agree.

JMHO, take it or leave it.

Gene

[Excaliber]

6T5.

I think the main point still stands. Inaccurate title/registration can get you in real hot water. A guys car was impounded here in Hawaii for title inaccuracies. I personally would NOT use an out of state title service. And THATS the point.

The other point is: When the police show up with questions, you better have some answers. There just doing their job.

Ernie

[BT SNAKE]

Agro, your assumptions are that what vprhunter posted is the truth and nothing but the truth. You cop an attitude on law enforcment not from this but obviously from a pryor experience that possibly didn't go to well. That's fine. sorry you feel the way you do. I have delt with it and I will continue to deal with it cause I'm pretty sure it won't change people like yourself who make generalizations and huge assumptions. Then on top of that be so paranoid as to remove your profile. Believe me, you won't meet a more tolerant person in or out of uniform.
I said hurt, nothing was said about disturbing.
The guys are right. I will move on and please except my replies as spirited discussion.

Hersh

PS... Bring on the dunk tank!!!!

[Monster]

Gene,

It's not a matter of someone trying to "ruffle feather". I was at BACC breakfast and saw 2 members get phone calls , while at breakfast from their wives, and both related the same situation; 4-5 CHP and Sheriff's officers came to the house looking for the owners and the cars and the went on to say that it was related to the registration as Rick427 had mentioned earlier (he was there, as was I).
Yes, the search warrant was for the "Cobra's" both of which were not on the premisis at the time. And I haven't seen a post from either of the individuals that received "visits", so your right it does appear to be the last thing on their minds.

Argo- Your post seemed to be intended to target the thinking behind spending valuable law enforcement resources on what appears to be a trivial matter and not directed at the men and women that are out there risking their lives to "serve and protect" and not at the actual messenges that were out there carrying out orders. The problem is that without the facts we can only speculate on the motivation behind these visits.

Until we know more about what is driving this investigation I think we should reserve further speculation until more facts are provded, to avoid creating inaccurate conclusions.

take care,

Mike "monster"

[B/Stock]

As a new member looking to buy a Cobra I find these posts very disturbing. I don't know how I can feel comfortable going to Spring Fling and paying 40-50K for a used Cobra and not being sure if I can register and title it in my state. And even if I do get the plates on it am I always going to be waiting for the knock on the door? When I speak to dealers about these questions I usually get a wink and nod answer. A lot of smoke and mirrors. I usually get a replys like, "we can get around that" etc. I am not worried about members or sellers trying to unload bogus cars but I am worried about getting caught up in the bureaucracy of the DMV. I have a appointment with the RI DMV this week to address this very thing. After many phone calls to them they don't seem to have a policy reguarding these cars. Its sad to see such great car enthusiasts like Cobra owners go through this. Best to luck to you all and thanks in advance for any info you can give me in reguards to solving these problems.

[6T5 Cbra]

"... And THATS the point."

Ernie, I agree.

"It's not a matter of someone trying to "ruffle feather"

Mike, just seems like a speculative post. As I said, I would like to see some follow up details. If it's true, then it's true. We will see the seriousness of it all as the facts unfold.

Let's hope it's all a big misunderstanding.

Gene

[Monster]

Gene,
There is no question that this is TRUE and that it did in fact occur on Sat. As I said, Both Rick 427 and I were there and spoke with 2 of the folks involved and have related the information that they provided. "multiple CHP/Sheriff with warrants came to their houses looking for their Cobras and they had a list of 19 cars and it was related to "Tittles Unlimited" registrations.
As for the rest of the story, I was hoping to find out more on this thread however it will probably be a day or so until those directly involved can provide more details.

good luck to all,
Mike "monster"

[Bumpster]

B/Stock touched on the point that may be most important here, and that is about what we have to go through to get our replicas registered. I'm having the same worries as he is about registering my Cobra when I get it this summer. If there was one clear path laid out by the dmv to follow, I would gladly do it. What seems to be the case in my area is that, when you register, you need to deal with a clerk who has experience doing exactly what you need done, which is to get it registered as you want it (65 Cobra, new homebuilt, or whatever). If you deal with someone who has no such experience, you may never get it done, or get so bogged down and confused that it seems impossible. That's what drives people to the title mills who claim to cut through all the crap, for a fee gladly paid, and off you go. I don't think any of us want to "go around" the system, we just want to be able to deal with it and understand it so we can legally drive our cars. I would wager that I could call ten clerks in title offices in Florida and get ten different answers as to how to register my car. I've heard too many horror stories about this subject to expect anything less.

As far as this post goes regarding police officers, that's brings mixed emotions to the top. When you're a crime victim, involved in an accident, or anything like that, a police officer is someone you are very glad to see. The chance of this happening to any of us during our lifetime are quite small, however. Most often we see police officers hiding behind trees with radar guns in areas that have unrealistically low speed limits, the dreaded "speed traps".
Their image is one of an adversary that you need to watch out for or you'll get busted. And please don't tell me that speed traps are somehow for our own good, I'll never believe that. They are revenue producing methods and nothing more, and they give police a poor image. And no, I've never gotten a ticket from a speed trap, so this is nothing personal, but every time I see one it generates a real negative feeling about police.As much as anyone, I appreciate the help and protection our police provide when we need it, and thanks to all those officers on this forum and everywhere else who provide it, but try to see the image that's created by the things I've described and the event that started this post.

Maybe this whole thing revolves around the bureaucratic mess that we seem to butt our heads against every time we need to do something with the government. How many of us do our own income taxes? Does it have to be so intimidating to go to register your car? Can you do anything "legal" without a lawyer these days? Why are we doing this to ourselves? What happened to "government by the people?" We seem to be victims of it rather than in control of it.

Bumpster

[Bart Carter]

I feel the really sad thing here is that states do not care enough about their citizens to allow them to enjoy their dreams.

If you build a 1965 car, you should be able to enjoy it. That a state makes it nearly impossible is wrong. They make the rules and then when you use a loophole in their rules to have your dream, they decide the way another state allows titling is not good enough for them and now you're a criminal.

Finally, California came up with some decent legislation for replicas. I think that there should be organized effort to change laws in other states. Until that happens, many will be "outlaws" for simply trying to realize their dream.

[Turk]

California came up with a decent legislation for replicas, and took it away with another legislation.

If in the State of California everyone took advantage of the 500 available slots fopr Special Construction registration, I bet within a short time your dream hot rod would have to wait until the next year because all 500 acvailable spots would have been exhausted.

The following year the lines will form and and within a few days half if not most of the 500 spots again will dissaper.
In this state, seing the popularity of this legislative gift, do you think they would raise the number to 1000? I think not.
At that point the idiots in Sacramento will start talking about the impact of these cars on the enviroment and more than likely reduce that number if not completely do away with it.

I hate this place!

TURK

[Excaliber]

I will be buying sometime after May (IF my investment doesn't tank by then). And the FIRST questions I will be asking will be related to title and registration issues.

Hmmm,,,,this sure makes a STRONG case for Excalibur Cobras! There a piece of cake to register anywhere! I guess you could say there a "real car"?

Uh oh,,,,, "This is Officer "Really", Drop the can opener and move away from the worm can slowly".

Ernie

[flatliner]

argo1, If you don't like your states laws then YOU should write your congressman, or begin to lobby against the laws you would like to change. Police Officers use discretion when carrying out their duties everyday...for every citation that is written many warnings are issued. I too, as well as our agency, do not believe in "speed traps", and they are not used here. Most officers will allow 10 mph over the speed limit.
As far as search warrants being served, most agencies want multiple officers to respond simply because they don't know what they're walking into. Is it a guy with a cobra registered in another state, or is it an illegal stolen vehicle "shop" involved in multiple illegal registrations designed to keep people from getting their stolen cars back...will this "shop" have weapons and people that will use them to aviod capture?
I'm sure after they made an assessment of the situation 4 of the 5 CHP units left (assuming there were 5), and one poor sucker was left there to sort out this mess.
Life isn't always fair and I don't agree with all the laws we have, but it is the law and those are the rules of the game. Whether you realize it or not these laws (not all) do protect your way of life. If you don't believe so then try living in a country with little or no laws and law enforcement. Kiss your Cobra good-by because a street gang kill you and drive away with your car! Then you would wish you were back in the old U.S.A... even if a CSP officer came to your door to check a vehicle registration.

[Mark IV]

....that the trouble stems from using a service such as "TU" and titling your car as a "1965" Face it guys, if it did not exist in 1965 it is NOT a 1965. Whatever ego trip is served by a '65 title is probably not worth the potential for disaster that doing this could bring upon you.

The manufacturers generally do it right, they issue a MSO for the kit chassis/body and assign a VIN to it. It is when you attempt to create a "CSX" type number and assign a 1965/66, etc. year to it that the trouble begins.

That said, I did use TU over 20 years ago to save time with a reg. I bought a car that had not been registered in New York for over 12 years. New York was unable to "find" the info due to the record over 8 years old being stored and not on microfilm or computer. TU provided a tilte and registration that I then turned in to NY and was granted a NY registration. I did not circumvent ownership or assign a VIN to a vehicle that IT DID NOT ALREADY CARRY!

While it does sound like 5 cars of Law Enforcement might have been overkill, without all the details I as a layman would not presume to make judgement upon the logic involved.

Moral? Don't try to make your car something it isn't. There is also a risk down the road with a subsiquent buyer going back after you for fraud claiming they bought the car based upon it being a "real" 1965 or whatever. Not that it was a "real, genuine Cobra" but rather that they believed that it was as a real 1965 model car.

Rick

[Ken Greene]

MArk IV, said it right
If teh car was there in 65 then it is a 65. if it wasn't, and i mean the car you have, not one like it, tehn its not a 65. to use a company like TU for an ego trip or to bypass emisions or safty issues is wrong.
If you have the money to play in this sport then do. if not, then wait till you do and do it right. for you and all your passengers safty. also don't forget about the next guy and what he/she will have to deal with.

[BT SNAKE]

DV and several others touched on the most important points. You must use the laws of the state you live in to title your kit car. No matter how much red tape or hoops you have to jump through. It's the only way to avoid problems down the road. My Midstates is titled the year it was built and that was Indiana law. Now my GT40 is titled as a 1966 Ford recon according to the Arizona State DMV. I specifically stated that it was a kit and it was not nor does it have any original parts on it. They stated that the process requires that the car be registered as to the year the car favors for ID purposes. The Recon on the registration tells that it is a replica/kit car under Arizona law. The bonus for me was no smog checks because it is titled under 1967. However, my Midstates has to go through emmissions every year at the cost of $24. With the Webbers it never passed. But with Edelbrock EFI it sails through.
What is really needed is an orginization similar to the National Street Rod Assoc. They have fought for many new laws that effect their hobby. They even have Street Rod license plates in many states. Until there is a group effort made to fight for us we will always be the red headed step child of the car hobbies.
I was in hopes that the newly formed NKCC (National Kit Car Club) would be the catalist that brings us all together. They are relitvely new and we will have to wait and see how they grow and what their agenda is for the members.

My apologies for the earlier rant. As I went back and reread the posts I believe the use of the word spineless is what set me off.
I judge people as individuals and not by their occupations. I hold no ill will towards you agro. I do understand about the governments being totally out of control on many issues that effect us all. The beauracracies are totally redicules and they are getting worst. I wish I had the answers for these problems.


Hersh

[Chaplin]

Some words of advice.

First, I would tell all would-be Cobra owners to check with the main office of your DMV. DO NOT go down to your local branch where you renew your license or regisration, because they will likely have no idea what you are talking about and you will probably wind up wasting your time. Call the main office in your state capital.

I called the main office of NJ DMV and spoke to someone who actually knew what I was referring to and was quite helpful (which is a first for NJ DMV). She sent me all the paperwork necessary to start the titling process and put me in touch with someone in DMV's "Engineering Dept." who told me about the inspection process for kit cars. It turns out that in NJ, I can title the car according to the year of the motor- therefore I'm using a C6ME 428 block- and will legally be issued a 1966 title. Although the process would definetely be quciker using a title service and would avoid a lot of the DMV headaches, ultimately I decided that it is not worth the risk. Last thing I want is 5 state police walking down my driveway . . .

Your state may or may not have a similar provision. But the point is, don't waste your time at the local DMV office, call those who know, learn what is involved and what you can accomplish through the approriate legal channels provided by the state. At that point, you will know the benefits and risks of each course of action and can make an informed decision.

That's my .02

[Chaplin]

Hersh-
You beat me!

[Turk]

I don't believe the 4 or 5 officers had the ability to look at the assignment given to them that morning and say, "Nope, we don't want to serve that search warrant, we will go and arrest a speeder instead".

It was their job, and for all we know one or more of them may not have agreed with what they were doing that day. It is not up to them to decide what their duties were.

We wouldn't want the cops to decide what is legal and what is not, and what they should enforce and what they shouldn't, Would we?

It is frustrating to see what is important and what is not what laws should be enforced and what laws are not worthy of enforcement in a state that has run a muck.

I believe I have said it elsewhere, the law enforecement in this state does not know how to apprehend and deal with couple of million illegal aliens, but has the time and the resources to go after 19 Cobra owners. Hardly a public safety isssue. Yet, it wasn't the officers who decided that, that day.

Yes, they were just doing their job. As for 5 to do such a silly job, I doubt it they got on the radio and asked their friends..
"Hey Al, are you busy? You want to tag along, I am going over to Turk's house and check up on his car".

We are angry about a lot of what is going on around us, but I think in this case our anger is misdirected.

TURK