Anti-Carroll Shelby???

[Cobrabill]

If it has horns-it can gore.Semantical B.S.

[SCOBRAC]

I'm not anti Shelby.. I just think the guy did what americans do best, he adapted and over came and excelled..

He never invented anyting.. The "Cobra" may have been his name but it certainly was not a unique concept.. He didn't invent the OHV V-8 or the car he put it in.. As far as that goes he didn't invent slapping a big engine in a small car.

Worlds most famous chicken farmer.. yes.. A tireless self promoter certainly, hellava good driver absolutly.. American original, Legend.. Sure.. Self described A-hole and Gouchy B@#stard.. 100%..

[Sal Gerace]

A lot of guys buy the cars because they can. Some care about the history of the cars... some could care less. Then you have the guys that just want to bolt as much HP to their @ss as they can in the lightest frame. What I don't understand is how someone could claim to love the car enough to buy one (or a replica) but totally dislike the guy who made it all happen. Shelby's connection to the car runs much deeper than a badge or plate. If anyone feels that much dislike for the man why don't they just go buy a Ferrari or a Corvette or something.

Thanks I feel a little better now!

[RICK LAKE]

MY Turn. Shelby is a Legend. He borrowed a car from a company in trouble and with hot rodding engineering made History. We could all be driving cobras with Chevy or Dodge motors under our hoods. He is a sharp bussiness man then and now. However He used people when racing to promote the cobra. The winningest privateer was snubbed unless he beat the team cars. There is alot of skelletons in OLD Shells closet. One day FFR will write a book and clean the air about that man. This will not happen until he is passed. My car is a replica, based on an orginial. I don't have a 80k floating around to buy a real one. If it was not for the thousands of cobra lovers and addicts who want this car look, this story could have ended like the Tucker, Corvair, or that stainless steel car. GM has gone after D&D Corvette and someone in Nev. or Arz. over building the Grand Sports. I don't know why GM would not want the press on this car. Ford has the GT-40, Chrysler has the Viper, and GM is falling behind with the ZO6 vette. I went to Lime rock for the 25 year Shelby meet. He was there. His book was 100.00 or 125.00 and for an extra 25.00 he would sign it or take a picture with you. Make a livin yes, rapeing people of an extra charge NO. I would rather have a autograph of Bob Bondurant, Dick Smith, or some of the orginial drivers, because these people would be more thankful, nicer, and happier to sign for FREE and maybe ask for a donation to a charity then a sign that said you pay this price for my time. Thats my feelings on the Shelby dealings. I will wait for the movie. Rick Lake

[Sal Gerace]

Replica guys are putting at least 40+ in their cars. I don't think money is all that big an issue when you get into putting together a decent car. I decided to go a little more and hope that my car holds it's value for me. I do not have it ($$) in barrels in my basement neither. Overall I bet I am in the lower income level of most that participate in this forum. I am a very happy owner of a Real One. OK so all I could afford was a glass one. My point is that anyone who ownes a real one is not just some rich snob. My love started because my father worked for Ford. I had Mustangs all my life. I then learned about the Shelby Mustangs and then about the Cobra's. So if the Cobra's had a Chevy engine in it I probably would not have had an interest in it. When I had learned about how the AC Cobra and Ford came together in the 60's and made history I was pretty impressed. As far as Shelby goes I am sure he did a lot of things that business men do and probably made some enemies. Nobody bent my arm to give him $25.00 for his autograph at the Atlantic City show. He was really nice. He talked to me like a regular guy. He was funny and witty and sincerely thankfull for my donation! Cloe is also very a charming person. They both displayed a lot of class and grattitude towards everybody. So I am only giving my opinion on what I know. Not on what someone else says. Just my 2 cents.

[Excaliber]

I just got back from a camping trip, almost missed my favorite subject!

DV,
I think it's great that CS is helping/encouraging the Fling. I admire CS, and I try to pass that on to my son also. Respect for a persons accomplishments, while realizing that people are not perfect. And life is not always "fair", or we "think" we would be fair.

I don't always like some of the things my friends do, but there still my friends and I support them. I would be honored to shake Shelbys hand, and at the same time, I feel bad about some of his comments concerning the replica industry.

I'm very encouraged that he has offered his support for the Fling!

Ernie

[TheShadow]

His support for the Fling is a great news. It nice to hear positive things about Shelby. I hope it is a sign of things to come. My comments about CS are observations based on what I see and read about him. I would like to have one of his new 427's but the wife say's to give up some of my other hobbies first. Ed

[Slither]

Why did I buy a 4000 series car? To be honest, I was going to settle for a kit, replica, look alike or what ever we are calling them now. But my financial situation changed dramatically and I wanted a true SHELBY Cobra. Don't get me wrong, there are some very nice replicas on the market. Here in AZ. we have some superb examples in the Arizona Cobra club. I have met CS on several occasions and at least he knows me by name now. I'm sure that some of his business tactics haven't been most favorable in the past. We all screw up once in awhile. And he does sign autographs without a fee from time to time. He loves the little kids that surround him all the time. But remember, CS is 80 years old now. Ever think how we will feel IF we make it to 80? He is bitter over the replica thing and will take it to his grave with him. But you have to admit, when you see a Cobra, whether it be one of his or a replica, doesn't a chill go down your spine? No matter how we think, it is still a reflection on Carroll Shelby. By the way Sal, he married a gal named CLEO!

[Dan Stryffeler]

Never met the man, just have seen TV and magazine interviews...

Astute businessman? Not sure, let's see...

- Ford could'nt hardly giveaway the Cobra's by the end of their production run.

- Helped set up the Hertz rent-a Shelby (mustang) which was a financial disaster for Hertz; stolen engines, blown automatic (automatic????) tranny's

- From the "History of the Automobile - Shelby" show, I learned he didn't even want to get involved with the Mustang, which he called, "A secretaries car". So it wasn't his business sense that brought him into the program - but Lee Iaococa who saw the potential of the car.

- Allowed "his" design, i.e. the Cobra to become public domain, so he could not trademark it at a later date, costing him big $$$

- Sold the Cobra trademark to Ford for a dollar

- Let's not forget about the Series I, which started off with a price tag around $85,000 and ended up around $120,000 with a different engine. (Apparently as the price went up, if you cancelled your order and remember an order is a contract between the buyer and the seller - you lost your deposit).

- Oh the the Continuation Cobras were a resounding success, just ask anyone in California who ponyed up $500,000 for one of these cars only to find they couldn't be registered for road use.

- Anybody seen the collector value of all the Dodge/Shelby stuff lately.

Come on, the guy was a great driver, built some terrific cars, setup a worthy charity, and is a great promoter... but I think that the claims I hear regarding his business skills are just a little off the mark, although part of being a good manager is surrounding yourself with great people - which he has done and seems to be continuing to do.

I don't dislike the man, but - he wanted to hit all of us replica owners for $10,000. OK, this was supposably from an article/interview in Automobile magazine which I have never seen, so to be fair - this may just be a myth.

Sorry,

- Dan

[John McMahon]

So JJ Rodman (what a great guy, met him at the Glen) is selling his DragonSnake, one of four known to exist for $450K or 2 289 street cars.

Replica owners (including CSX4000s!) should all be envious.

Please note...CS will not get a dime of this man's money in the transaction.

[Keith Lyles]

Originally posted by REAL 1


Blood sucking lawyers???

Lawyers represent clients who have retained the lawyers who are asserting what the client believes are valid claims.

Some win. Some lose.

Everyone hates a lawyer until they need one.



BTW: Its the "Ox" thats gored. Not a cow.

Didn't mean to offend. Are you a lawyer ? BTW the Ox is a member of the Bovine Family. Bovines pertains to Cows or Oxens. So it really does depend on "Whose Cow" if you live in the Texas or Ox if you live in Asia "being gored".

[Russ Dickey]

You guys were right. I am truly sorry that I started this thread and got everybody all up in arms. Two things that I would say regarding things that have been mentioned lately in this thread:

1. When Shelby asks for $ for his autograph, he turns around and gives all that money to his foundation. You guys who are complaining about this should be ashamed of yourselves. Seriously, how much money have you poured into your replicas, and your raising a stink about a $25 charitable donation??? God forbid that someday, your kid may need an organ transplant, and you might find yourself calling "the Grouchy Old Man" for some assistance.

2. If FFR (or whoever) is going to write a "tell all" book about CS, they should have the testicular fortitude to do it now, while he's still alive, rather than wait until he's dead. In my dealings with CS, he's always been honest and upfront. I'm sure he'd like the chance to give his rebuttle, and I for one would like to be able to hear what he has to say, instead of listening to others sling mud at a defenseless corpse.

[KeithBrown]

Russ et al,

I am glad that Mr. Shelby has a foundation that does give money away. He is to be commended for this work - I believe that goes without saying. Any help to those needing transplants is outstanding and I take my hat off to anyone willing to give time and/or money. I admire Mr. Shelby for this act.

That said, and without any editorial comment, if you think that his charity his efficient at providing the financial support you propose, please review their records for actual outlays over the past few years.

While I believe his intentions are honorable, there are many more efficient charitable organizations.

Regards,

Keith

[Russ Dickey]

My point is simply that I am amazed at people who scoff at a $25 charitable donation for an autograph, regardless of the effeciency of his foundation. This is a common practice among celebrities, athletes, race car drivers, etc. We have had multiple NASCAR drivers at my place of business for "free autograph" signings, because my company made a sizeable donation to the driver's charity of choice (so that the fans didn't have to). As a fan or someone who has admiration for that "celebrity", you get your autograph and you do something to help others in the process. It's a win-win if you ask me.

I guess it all comes down to the respect that you have for the man. Some CC members, like myself, have the utmost respect and admiration for him and for what he has done for the automotive world and our hobby. Others it sounds like, think he is no better than Ralph Nader. I am surprised that the folks in the latter group would even want to own a Cobra, but everybody is entitiled to their opinion.

Russ

[Excaliber]

I don't see the controversy concerning CS signatures as related to his charity work at all. Most "celebritys" are very aware of how they "present" themselves to the public, what "things" they will or will not "sign" or "promote". They are protecting their "name". CS will promote ANYTHING, making it hard for me to take his "endorsment" seriously. I am particularly "galled" when I see his signature on a "replica" that is far from "accurate", and that doesn't have squat to do with his charity work.

Two different issues here. I would be willing to "pay" for his signature, I think he's a great man. What he wants to do with the money is up to him. I'm not paying for his signature to "promote" his charity because I'm not SURE how the money is being used, what percentage goes where, etc. I am very skeptical when it comes to how "charitys" use the funds. If a portion of the money goes to charity, thats cool!

I support the "Fling" first because it is a very cool gathering of the Cobra clan, second because it will benefit a charity cause. In the case of the "Fling", I CHOOSE to believe DV and the others will use the funds wisely. I'm going to have fun one way or the other!

CS is SO involved in various "marketing" strategies it is more difficult to have "faith" in how the charity work plays into the big picture. Won't stop me from getting a signature, but I'm doing it for myself and may CHOOSE later to do something for a charity, maybe even his!

Ernie

[REAL 1]

Just a correction for Mr. McMahon.

CSX 4000 owners own REAL Cobras which also by their very nature replicate the original. Only to that extent are they "replicas".

As to CS and the replica industry. They are both to a large degree motivated by $$$.

Business is business. Sometimes bad business decisions are made. Sometimes good ones are made. CS has made some controversial decisions for sure.

[RICK LAKE]

Russ Dickey Hi Russ I see you are very fond of CS. I may have caught himon an off day. He was short, cranky, and looked tired. 25.00$ dollars is not laying around in my back yard. It took me 17 years to save the money to buy my car. I sold scrap metals, soda cans, worked odd jobs, etc. When you make 40K a year, 25.00$ means something. Russ when FFR was being sued alot of info was brought out in the open. Would you like to know the TRUTH?? I would like to hear the other side of the story and come to my own Findings. I am not anti-CS but I try to find out the facts about things before I start pointing fingers. I hope he goes to the DVfling. Seeing 3 to 4 hundred cobras for a charity like this is a Great Thing. Maybe CS will write his own book for all the world to read. You have had good dealing with him, I have not. This didn't stop me from buying him alum block and heads. The engine and heads where perfect and for 7500.00, I didnot get a christmas card, but thats OK. You are right about 1 thing, maybe next time before a thread like this is typed, think about boths sides of the story. Both sides have facts. Russ I for one thank you for helping out charitys of need. Have a good day, take the car for a drive and enjoy it. You worked for it Rick Lake

[HIQ]

This thread is a complete waste........

[Jeff Frigo]

HIQ:

Then don't read it.

[Excaliber]

Good call Jeff, I second that.

I think the issue DOES need to be "aired out" from time to time.

Ernie