Anti-Carroll Shelby???

[STG]

Let's atart at 705 posts, O.K.?

[DougD]

At the risk of getting kicked off this forum (I mysteriously disappeared from the Cobra Forum in the past after asking this same question), can someone PLEASE post the original article or story about these Continuation Frames that were supposed to have been found? That argument has been posted so many times that everyone assumes it is truth. I have never seen or been able to get anyone to show me where this story originated. And just to set the ground rules, we don't need more heresay. I don't care who supposedly said what. I'm looking for FACTS. Magazine article. Letter to someone. Anything concrete. I say it's BS. There is no smoking gun. Flame on, but do so with FACTS, not urban legend. I'm man enough to admit it if I'm wrong.

[REAL 1]

Doug: Your not getting it. Their not interested in the facts here.

Rumor, hearsay, unfounded accusations carry the day here.

These guys don't need no stinkin facts.

[Excaliber]

Doug,,,,a VERY good question! All I hear is rumor about that.

Evan,,,,I need some stinking facts, lol.

Ernie

[Dan Stryffeler]

As near as I can tell, the first independant article on the continuation cobra's may have been the following;

Lamm, John. Shelby Cobra 427 S/C. Road & Track v43 p66-71 Ag 1992 (Ag - August??)

"The Shelby Cobra 427 S/C was designed by Carroll Shelby in 1964. Shelby built 57 of the cars that year, but he had the parts to build 100 cars. He did not begin to build the remaining 43 cars until several years ago, and he has since finished 8 cars, which are all made from the original parts. Because Shelby registered the 43 unbuilt cars in California in 1965, the recently finished Cobras are not expected to meet the anti-smog rules that went into effect there in 1966. The results of a Cobra 427 S/C road test are presented."


Note that the registration problem in California may be coming from the 1965 vs 1966 registration date, it's a smog issue - not what I assumed to be a "did they really exist or not issue". I don't think I have this article at home - but I'll see what I can find.
This was found under a 'google' search for continuation cobra, california

I couldn't find anything yet on the claims from AC that there were no unaccounted for frames - will keep looking.

- Dan

[Excaliber]

Rumor has it.........

Smog is/was in fact the issue with these cars not being able to register in Calif.

Ernie

[computerworks]

A while back, when this same topic was thrashed about, the letter from AC Cars was posted that indicated, essentially, that there were no unaccounted-for frames.
What was at issue is that SAI had unused s/n's in the CSX30xx sequence, but AC documents they never built frames for those numbers, hence the "tubing" must have been new.

[Jeff Frigo]

DougD:

I hope you have a lot of time on your hands. Its not an "Urban Ledged". He is very lucky he is not in jail.

There are two missing documents from this original thread. The first one is the one posted by STG. It was a letter from Brian Anglias (sp.) who was the owner of AC cars. It stated emphatically that there were no "left over frames". Maybe STG could post it again for us.

The other missing document is the article that the LA Times wrote when they caught McKlusky making new frames for CS that he claimed were leftovers.

Both of these documents still exist, but the internet addresses have been changed or deleted.

Make up your mind for yourself, but it is very clear to me and most others excluding Evan, you know the guy that thinks CS has never done or never will do anything wrong.

Continuation Thread

[Excaliber]

I do recall that thread with the letter from AC stating they had accounted for EVERY known frame.

I'm still fuzzy on the details about how these cars were marketed. If it was as "originals", wouldn't that be a clear case of fraud? If so, what became of the "legal issues" that must have surrounded that? And, where the cars today? What is their estimated value?

No ax to grind here one way or the other, just curious.........

Ernie

[STG]

In the words of the immortal Count Basie, "One 'mo time!"

I'll dig up my files, but Brian Angliss wrote a letter to CS after his "continuation" series was announced. He stated that ALL Cobra chassis/bodies were manufactured by AC Cars and that EACH unit was assigned a serial number. AC manufactured no imcomplete chassis/body units, all that were manufactured had been accounted for.

I also have a letter signed jointly by Angliss and CS were CS admits that his continuation cars were/are of U.S.A. origin with no parts manufactured or supplied by AC.

Give me some time, and I'll post them again.

By the way, it doesn't help when experts like Brock Yates and Alain deCadenet don't know the difference between a CSX4000, an original and a continuation car. Did anybody catch deCadenet's discription of a CSX4000 at the Barrett-Jackson auction? He said the car was an almost perfect duplicate and that the only difference between it and an original Cobra was the hood latches. He claimed he could tell it was a 4000 because they faced a diffrent direction. I think they were unlatched!

[STG]

HEAR YE, HEAR YE,

Here is the letter from Brian Angliss to Carroll Shelby:

DougD,

Anything you'd care to say?


Evan, face up to the facts. You have no case. I'm filing for a demur (sp?).

[Excaliber]

Alain deCadenet is generally considered to be a "walking encyclopedia" of automotive history. I've seen him make some serious blunders concerning cars though, so I gotta wonder. I suspect he's working with a "script" most of the time, and without it, just no telling WHAT he might blurt out, ha ha!

Maybe he does better with the foreign iron, he tends to "butcher" American cars with his inept comments.

Ernie

[STG]

Evan,

"Their (sic) not interested in facts here."

Rumor!

Hearsay!

Unfounded accusations!

....along with, drumroll please .....

Carroll Shelby's (hisownself's) Signature! HOW COULD THIS BE????

Really, counselor. It seems as though your memory is faulty. Remember this little gem? The following is FACT, please stop drinking the CS Kool-Aid.


Every time Evan "forgets", I'll repost.


Just the facts, m'am.

Jack Webb

[KobraKarl]

looks like interesting reading , but I cant quit make it out . Any chance you could blow that up about 50%?

[STG]

Doug,

That independent article in R&T was lifted almost completely in context from the Shelby press release. Please, don't make me find that one, too!!!

It seems that after the LA Times expose, the California D.M.V. became interested because CS told them that he had pulled titles for the "unfinished" cars back in the sixties. The joint letter above doesn't exactly jibe with replacing lost titles, does it?

It IS this kind of stuff that keeps the legend going!

[STG]

I'll find the printed copy later to re-scan, but until then:

[STG]

I love this..."wholly North American construction." He even names McCluskey!

[KobraKarl]

In my best Paul Harvy............Paaaage two

[captain]

flatliner got it right. Shelby lost in court over the shape of the car.
now he is trying to own the 427 S/C logo which has been used by others for years but he never tried to protect the logo until he went back in business and is trying to use the courts to put out the competition. He is a greedy old man kicking the very industry that helped keep his history alive. It also is Shelby himself sueing and not the companies he aligned with.
A shame after we [the replica owners primarily] honored him all these years.

[STG]

Here's a copy of the offical settlement. PLEASE READ PARAGRAPH 9. SHELBY DIDN'T GET HIS TRADE DRESS CLAIM.