Motor builers...Sugar in tank, what will it do?

[klayfish]

OK, many of you know what I do for a living. I need some opinions from experienced engine builders.

I have a claim for sugar in the gas tank. Without giving out too many details, this engine is a newer pushrod, fuel injected V8. What will putting sugar in the tank do? It is my understanding that often it will clog the filter and cause the motor to stall. Or, it will clog the injectors, and cause the same thing. Am I missing anything or will it do anything else?

Steve

[KobraKarl]

Klayfish

As I remember the legend from my teen years, sugar burns in combustion chamber,glazes cylinder walls. adds tremendous friction, burns pistons,rings and cylinders or seizes engine. supposed to be a very nasty trick!

[Clois Harlan]

I think Karl right on. Bad joke!

[agro1]

Steve - What happened ??? Some people are really worthless; "you never touch another man's automobile, ya just don't do it, it's against the rules..."

I would drain the tank if I were you and then fill'er up with some high octance. No sense in taking a chance.

Pulp Fiction

[Ron61]

Steve,

Karl is exactly right. I once saw a 383 Mopar engine that was brought into the shop because it had seized. Someone put sugar in the tank and it was the biggest mess I have seen. If you even thing there may be sugar in your tank by all means drain it.

Ron

[Hotfingrs]

A few years ago I had to leave one of my vettes sit outside cause the garage was full. Someone put sugar in the gas tank, it didn't make it out of the drive before stopping. Had to have to flat bedded to the dealer, needed all new injectors, and a couple of others things that got clogged...insurance covered it all. That stuff about burning rings and glazing I think is just wishful thinking on the perps part...

[Excaliber]

...might be to late to drain, sounds to me like damage has all ready been done? Sounds like a "customer" car, and you know how fussy "customers" are.

If the engine has been run then a COMPLETE fuel system flush would be required, only way to be "sure" you got it all out. Injectors would need to be proffessionally cleaned also. Whew, big job and not sure who would do it right!

Ernie

[Ron61]

Jack,

The Mopar engine that I mentioned in my above post was badly burned. But the engine builder told me the sugar made so much gunk that it had cut off the oil supply to almost everything. So far as glazing I never saw any of that. It could have clogged the oil pump for all I know as I never asked about that.

Ron

[GeorgiaSnake]

The sugar should be trapped by the filter. Sugar will NOT desolve in gasoline. Try it - little glass of gas pour in the sugar and stir.

[Mr.Fixit]

Have you ever burned sugar? It gets goey, turns to caramel, then cruncky black carbon crud. I have never seen an engine that tried to burn it, and I don't want to. It is soluable in aqueous solutions, if your gas has any ethanol or methanol in it, it may dissolve pretty well (speculation).

[Excaliber]

It should be trapped by the fuel injector filter too, so,,,,, ya feeling lucky? lol

Ernie

[Junket]

GeorgiaSnake is correct will plug the filter and guess the injectors (have no experience on that) if it goes that far have not seen any damage to the motors from sugar but I know Coke surup will result in a seized pistons.

[CSX 4027]

Was that...
1 Lump or 2?

[cdog]

From the 'net so you know its true:

Dear Straight Dope:

Does putting sugar in someone's gas tank ruin their engine? Some also say sand in the gas tank will work, but it seems as though it would simply block the fuel filter. --Alan Whinery, Honolulu, Hawaii

SDSTAFF Dogster replies:
Having a spat with your sweetie, Al? Any sort of gritty substance put into a fuel tank is going to have an adverse effect on the car's performance. Salt and sugar are probably the most effective, since they do not dissolve in the gas. Sand is less effective because it is heavier and will sink to the bottom of the tank. Of course, it depends on how much sand you are funneling in, you delinquent.

Let's use sugar as an example. There are three basic ways that sugar in the gas tank is going to foul up someone's car. First, as you say, it will clog the fuel filter. Second, what gets through the fuel filter will clog the fuel pump. Finally, what makes it through the fuel filter and the fuel pump will completely foul whatever fuel delivery system your car uses. A carburetor that gets sugar in it is junk; you can strip it down and attempt to rebuild it but you likely will fail - it's a gummy, sticky mess. Your fuel injected vehicle will not fare much better when mucked up with the sticky stuff. This sort of vandalism will result in the car hesitating, losing power, and stalling. And repairs will not be cheap - replacing the fuel filter, dropping and draining the fuel tank, possibly a new carburetor or new fuel injectors. The latter two are very expensive, both in parts and labor.

An interesting side note - in the days before unleaded gasoline, fuel tank intake necks did not have flapper valves, and one way of screwing someone who was going on a long trip over was to roll a few golf balls down the neck into the tank. Once inside, the cover would slowly dissolve in the gas tank, leaving the spagetti-like fine string that wraps the core of a ball to unravel and clog the fuel filter. Now, if you REALLY want to put someone out of commission, sand in the oil fill tube is the ticket. Once the sand gets sucked up by the oil pump, it will score the pistons and the chambers and make the engine scrap. I do not advocate or recommend doing this, as it is extremely illegal and you probably don't want to go to jail. But then again, I don't know you. Here's hoping your interest in this is strictly academic.

[klayfish]

Thanks for the input guys. It's funny, I've gotten such a variety of answers, ranging from just clogging the filter to destroying the motor. Maybe one of these days, I'll convince my company to buy a junk car and try some experiments.
To give a few more details, this engine threw a connecting rod, and threw it hard. There is quite a hole in the side of the block, and the piston is nowhere to be found. It is claimed that nobody knew about the sugar until after the motor was replaced with a new one. When the shop tried to start the new motor, it started to run funny. They then pulled the fuel line and discovered the sugar.
I've asked many mechanics. Most say it is highly unlikely that sugar would cause this. I had one say that it is possibly, though very highly unlikely. He said that the sugar will burn and leave a black nasty carbon build up, IF it were to get past the filter and injectors. It will then build up over the valves and cylinder walls. Also the gases from the sugar burning aren't the same as gas, so it can lead to a vapor lock type situation. This combination can cause the engine to seize suddenly. But even he admits this is unusual, and would leave very tell tale signs.
Guess I have more work to do. Thanks again.

Steve

[ron427]

Mr Fixit is right. In my thirty-plus years in a Ford dealeship I have seen several engines damaged by sugar in the fuel system. The amount of damage will vary with the amount used and amount of running time. It will go beyond restriction of fuel system components. The caramel like deposits will coat the pistons and rings. BAD NEWS Ron

[Bob In Ct]

Not to doubt any of the stories, but how does everyone know that the engines were damaged by sugar in the fuel? Do those who do this terrible act have a huge urge to confess? If I were a betting man I would think nothing beyond a clogged filter would result.

I would just love to get a hold of an old lawn mower and feed it some gas with a couple of lumps added. Could this whole thing be just another urban legend? Remember the pill that turned water into gasoline?

Bob

[GeorgiaSnake]

This thread will die if any of you simply pour some gas in a jar put in any amount of sugar you want, stir it until the cows come home - it will NOT disolve.

[G.R.]

GeorgiaSnake is right I just poured some gas into a container and then added sugar, stirred and shook, added more sugar, stirred and shook, sugar just sort of suspended in the gas then slowly started to settle to the bottom of the jar



P.S. how do you dispose of a pickle jar of "sugar gas"?

[Excaliber]

So it doesn't dissolve, whats the big deal with that?

Theres no doubt in my mind enough sugar in the tank with enough time running the engine WILL result in some of that sugar going "all the way" to the pistons!

THROUGH the "sock" in the fuel tank, on to the fuel pump, down the lines, past the filter, into the carb/injectors and BAM, you gotta a POTENTIAL problem! How much gets by, IF any, depends on WHAT kind of pump/filter system were talking about!

EFI has a return fuel line so the gas is moving all the time, carrying a little bit of sugar with it! Wehn the motor blew, the release of fuel pressure in the system (over time) let the sugar "settle" in the lines and such. On a re-start your going to get a big "slug" of sugar as the gas pushes it along! The first thing to happen will be clogged injectors, the motor will run rough or stall!

It's possible (likely in fact) they noticed a slight or worse problem with the motor "missing" BEFORE it blew. Some people will respond to this type of problem by HOLDING DOWN THE GAS and revving the heck out of the motor to "clear it out", in hopes of "making it get better". Like it kinda dies out at 4000 rpm, if I can get it to rev higher than that maybe that will fix it? SO, put the hammer down!

Like the customer will TELL you they did that!!!! So why didn't the mechanic see evidence of excessive carbon buildup, clogged fuel lines etc. on the tear down? BECAUSE theres a HOLE in the block, the piston is MIA and he's looking for "piston shrapnel" and other SUBSTANTIAL damage. He's NOT looking at how the combustion chamber is doing, lol. He's kinda "busy" all ready tearing it down and checking out the "gouges" in the crank shaft.

Former line mechanic with Ford and Chrysler dealerships. I know from personal experience there ARE customers out there that will do that! In fact, I bet some of YOU guys have done the VERY SAME THING to your Cobra??? Haven't you??? Go ahead, fess up!!!!

Ernie