Shelby buys CAV GT40 for 80th Birthday !!

[REAL 1]

Captain: one word- delusional.

As to the rest of the CSX bashers. Very simply, all I knew about the CAV relationship with SAI is from this thread and the CAV website.

Its clear many are hoping to see a drop in Shelby Cobra values and looking for anyway to knock the marque. The remarks about owners of CSX being pigeons is offensive. Clearly those who have envy in their heart or sour grapes think that the relationship with CAV represents blood in the water and are ready again to jump into another feeding frenzy reminescent of those of a year or so ago.

Enjoy.

It is very common for manufactures to look to reduce the cost of their products to make them more competitive. CAV would be a new subcontractor for the manufacture of the frames/chasis and body. If construction is to spec and of quality workmanship thats all thats important. The workmanship of the original AC chasis wasn't anything to write home about and has been far surpassed by todays manufacturing technology and standards.

If the cost of glass cars can be reduced so that they are a little more attainable thats a good thing. At roughly $49,000 to $59,000 for a glass roller is not that much less than what they cost now.

Could it affect the resale value of glass CSX's possibly/maybe. Aluminum CSXs probably not.

If I were the other companies I would be very scared, I mean very scared if SAI does figure a way to cut their manufacturing costs and then pass it on by reducing the price.

For those that still wish to knock the CSX as just being a "dash plaque" all I can say is that the fact remains CSX owners have a REAL Cobra even if the plaque is removed. What do you have???

[Jamo]

I think SAI is smart to provide a more attainable glass product. Why shouldn't they benefit from the market like everyone else. It is a different product than the metal cars, so I just don't see any effect on those values.

Obviously, going to SA is a bit curious, but if they can get a quality product made there, what the heck. This is a very small world we live on.

[REAL 1]

Jamo: How is it I need twice the space to say the same thing????

[southernfriedcj]

Originally posted by REAL 1


[B What do you have???

[/b]

Although not a CSX knocker, what I have is exactly what I want. A Fauxbra!

[STG]

Evan,

You take twice the space to say what Jamo does because you bill by the hour. Jamo does all that pro bono and flat fee work!

By the way, if most current owners remove the CSX plaque from their cars, they have a KIRKHAM! (Evan you're making this waaay too easy!)

Wilf,

Your use of the word provenance in this forum may be an example of setting your expectations too high!

[wilf leek]

Thanks for the steer Stan!! LOL

[Jamo]

Evan

I read your briefs and draft the conclusions.

[Jeff Frigo]

Guys:

Brent said $1,000 per car.

[Excaliber]

Quoting Brent F. of SAI:

"P.S. Bruce, we tried to offer licensing agreements to several of the kit car builders about ten years ago and they declined stating that they can build whatever they want. The proposed price of the license was a $1000 donation to the Childrens Foundation for every car they sold."

Rumors do die hard! Perhaps this was one of a couple of different offers while "negotiating" a settlement? Or perhaps indeed it was the ONLY "real" offer SAI ever made. Perhaps there was "talk" of other offers, counter offers, no offers to certain groups? My guess is you would get a different answer from different people.

In this case the "source" is coming directly from SAI, so it carries some weight.

Ernie

[REAL 1]

Stan: No. You would still need to grind off the CSX #'s on the frame.

I'm just curious. If you ground the CSX numbers off the originals would that turn them back into ACs, kinda like turning them back into pumpkins too????

Stan, you make this much too easy.

[Dan Semko]

Jeff,
Brent needs to review the Shelby threads on this forum. When he does he'll soon learn that history does indeed repeat itself by those that fail to read and understand it. If you look in the Shelby Registry and note the date of the last publication, then compare that date to the date that Superformance and others actually established a business in the United States, you'll soon realize that they DO NOT coincide. Brent, as a General Manager, should know this history before he misquotes and misleads the readers.

Hey Bob Marsh, would you like me to send in a resume and curriculum vitae?

[BT SNAKE]

I dug this out of the archives. It was posted several months ago.
I tend to believe this version over all the others.

Hersh

Posted by Richard Hudgins:

Hi Folks,

I really hate to enter into this discussion, but there are some points that need to be brought to light about the licensing bit.

In the early 90's, I designed a 90 inch car for a little company in Oklahoma. They were currently building a standard type reproduction unit (Meaning Mustang 2 front suspension and 8.8 rear end.) They were doing quite well and production was steady and the car was a nice piece overall.

They built the 90 inch car and won “Best engineering” award at the Run & Gun held at Firebird in the early 90’s. They were a class operation.

They contacted Mr. Shelby's organization about the licensing deal and really thought that it might help the cause for his charity and 1k on top was livable in the then current marketplace, particularly with the 1k being for a charity, therefore tax deductible outside of a normal cost basis. (Also, it would have certainly been good for their business to have his signature on the car.)

Well, the deal was a bit different then what the press spoke of.

1. The deal was with Shelby Licensing Inc. (Or something close), not CS or his heart fund.

2. There was nothing in the proposal that said or inferred that the 1k was to go to the Charity. Matter of fact, the gentleman running this place said that the distribution of funds was solely up to him and Mr. Shelby’s charity had nothing to do with it.

3. To qualify for the licensing deal, you had to put up 50k per annum "up front" and this would be credited against your production on an annual basis. (The statement from this gentleman was “If you cannot put up this amount of money, then you would not be a manufacturer that we could endorse.)

4. If you did not build 50 cars you still spend 50K per year. The deal had to be renewed each year and the deposit of 50k was due immediately at the end of each year.

5. If you built more than 50 cars per year, the price went to 1.5k per car and you had to pay them up front once again to maintain the licensing agreement. (Based on the previous years production)

6. What you got in this licensing deal was that they would not sue you for building the reproduction of the Cobra. There was no endorsement, no plagues, no press, nothing other than the assurance that they would not sue you. You could stay in business, that’s all.


Well folks, this little company did not go for the licensing deal. It was just a bit too much money for them to put up. They are now out of business. (Due to the owner developing lung cancer from constant exposure to the fiberglass operation and therein dying.) Maybe the heirs would have been able to carry on if they had of paid for the CS licensing deal. Who knows?

Now, the bottom line here is that not one piece of communication was from CS. It was all from others who represented him. I do not feel that he would have wished nor endorsed these draconian business practices. However, it was all done in his name and the deals fell apart due to greed and avarice of others.

I feel the industry was ready to pay homage, but I guess that his people were not willing to allow for deals that would have allowed the industry to stay in business.
__________________
Best regards,

Richard Hudgins

[Dan Semko]

Good piece, Hersh,
In addition to Richard's information we know that Superformance was not a viable production company in the U.S. When Jim Price, owner of Superformance, approached Shelby to donate and receive his endorsement, his inquiries and correspondences were not addressed. If this was or is an important aspect of the Shelby legacy, the simple question would be: "why doesn't he do it now? " The South African CAV deal "appears" to be another sideline confrontation with the Superformance industry rather than another "venture". Brent should spend more time in the archives than behind the keyboard.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Hersh;

Nice work digging this up and posting it.....

After reading it twice,I come away thinking "this is NOT a licensing aggreement,it's "EXTORTION". You pay me 50k up front a year and I will not SUE you,I'll let you continue running your little business, but if you sell more than 50 cars a year the price is 1.5k per car......The way I see it it's EXRTORTION, plain and simple........

And the Heart Fund doesn't even get the money.....

Nice bunch of people over there at SAI....really generous too.....

David

[REAL 1]

David: I wouldn't be so quick to flame SAI. The people at SAI are good people and they make a quality product worth having.

It seems that there are separate entities run by different people. Shelby Licensing Inc. was apparently the entity involved according to Hersch. Hersch even indicates that he suspects CS didn't even know or was aware of the dealings.

Its not good or fair to paint too broadly when assigning blame unless you are sure.

[Dan Semko]

Evan,
I have to agree with you about the good folks at Shelby American. Bob Marsh, Kris Kinkaid and many others are honest, pleasant, top shelf people. The statement about Carroll Shelby NOT knowing about the donations for the heart fund is erroneous. If you check the Shelby Registry you'll find a quote from Shelby regarding the situation. The more important question is: IF this is the MAJOR concern that is causing the disparity with the cobra community, why isn't it being properly addressed currently? By your own admission, the CSX 4000's are a "continuation" of the original Shelbys which embodies the evolution of better technology and materials. Since the original has evolved, why can't the desire for unity do the same? Peace accords frequently require repeated table gatherings. I'm sure that if the proper good will attempts were proposed, a summit could be scheduled and the problems resolved. You're an attorney and one of the staunchest Shelby defenders, why don't you initiate the summit?

[pderouss]

All this now seems to be coming together nicely.

Jim Price can build cars for SAI, he builds the Sperformance cars and is also the new owner of AC. I say good luck to him as in my contacts with him he comes accross as a straight guy and a good engineer. If this means that people have access to well engineered and built cars at an affordable price then hopefully the Cobra legacy will be even more enhanced. The low labour costs and weak exchange rate in South Africa are already used by BMW to succesfully export around 40,000 cars a year.

I pressume that the glass cars may be similar to the Carbon Fibre Series (CRS) that were sold by AC as a fully built vehicle for about $60,000 here in the UK. Jim has one of the largest autoclaves in the industry. It would make sense to build carbon composite cars as they would be much stronger and more stable than fibreglass. The AC factroy could be used as a development base and to build a small number of alloy cars on the original bucks. Last time I was in there they were fitting a 4.6 litre OHC Ford V8 to a CRS which would represent a logical update for people who love the looks but don't want the cost/hassles that come with the OHV engines.

All the above is conjecture on my part - it will be interesting to see how things develop.

[pderouss]

PS

The cars could then be badged "Shelby AC Cobra" as the first 52 CSX2000 series cars were.

[STG]

Evan,

You said it, not me. If you ground the CSX numbers off a Shelby could YOU recognize it?

Here's an original. Does it look familiar? IT DOES NOT HAVE A CSX NUMBER. It's a COB. Please tell everyone that your discerning eyes can tell the difference. (The FIA wheels don't count!)

So, a CSX minus the the CSX is a COB. How easy can this be???

And since you are a true Shelby afficianado, you must remember that SAAC specifically asked Kirkham to place their ID numbers in the same location on the frame as thre originals to help prevent fraud.

[STG]

Steve Sunshine,

Just wondering if you have any more of those old watches?