Fastest Muscle cars.....list

[Excaliber]

Car and Driver, and I LOVE that mag and think TODAY they are very accurate in their testing.

.......but in 65,,,,,a different world, a different time. But maybe it's accurate. Dang, could they have been THAT fast????

Ernie

[CSX 4027]

In my opinion, that car could only turn in a time like that off a cliff
That car had to be well into the mid 4000lb range. It was a boat.
After reading further. The folks at pontiac recurved the distributor, rejetted the carb and had a special head gasket which apparently raised the compression. Even if they somehow got anothe point in compression and faking the engine to think it was advancing even more with the curve, I can't believe that thing was putting out 500 ponies through stock exhaust.
Oh Well

[Jamo]

I recall reading, I believe in C&D's anniversary edition some years ago, that the Catalina was one of the ringers they normally received from mfgs (the Goat cited being another). In the Cat's case, it was actually a 421 prepped by Royal. Also, though huge by today's standards, the boats of the 60s did not weigh as much as they looked (wished I could say the same for my a$$).

[PatBuckley]

I remember that Pontiac 2+2 road test and their claim of 3.9 seconds to 60....there is no way a car that heavy with that gearing and those tires could get within a second and a half of that time....pure bs.

Back then I made a big graph and using their power to weight ratios, plotted all the 0-60 times from every car magazine road tests I could get my hands on - and I had a lot of them! - that Pontiac time was so far out of the norm it was a joke!

They later tested a 427 Cobra that weighed about a thousand pounds less and had about 125 more HP and it did a 3.9 second 0-60....with Blue Streaks!!!!

Of course I was a Ferrari fan so I was still highly pi$$ed off about that GTO vs. G.T.O. scam that that rag perpetrated...

[CSX 4027]

Maybe they used some cheater tires with cleats in them.

[Excaliber]

I think Jamo's onto something with the weight thing. They were BIG cars, but I'd like to see numbers on the weight. It might be quite surprising. 3300-3400 maybe? Paper thin head gasket was a common "race trick" in those days.

Who was it that did those Chevy super tune ups? Yenko or something like that? Thin head gasket. indexed plugs, recurved dist. rejet carb,,,just bunch of "little things", but impressive gain in h.p.

Ernie

[RawCobra]

Yer right, Jamo, C&D DID finally come clean on the goat a couple years ago - it WAS a ringer - a bigger, somewhat tweaked engine as I recall - definitely not stock. They also admitted that their testing methods at the time left a lot of room for error.

[Excaliber]

You know,,,,,even with a "tweaked" motor, those ARE some very impressive times.

Ernie

[RICK LAKE]

Pat Buckley Pat you made a mistake about this Cat. It was a 421 swiss cheese framed car with 2-4 barrel carbs the front end was aluminium. Bumper, fenders, hood, and steering box. The car was 6 or 800 pds. lighter the the production one. I think the total of these cars where in the low 20's. With 430 gears and posi they could run 3.8-3.9, 0-60 they used 2 different cars, 1 auto and 1 stick to set these numbers. I will see if I can find the 2 articles about these cars in my mag collection and tell you what year and who's. It is possible with the weight transfer of these cars. They would lift the left front tire off the track. Stay tuned for more on this. Rick Lake

[Whaler]

Ernie....I hear they were also adding z-max with the infamous "linkite"additive to take seconds off the runs...
The early pioneers in the testing process.......

Like i have said b4 anything with Linkite or teflon and your going to have a whole new car under your arse.......lol

I mentioned weight in my initial post...you can bet some of these beasts were pretty heavy too...

Whats a 70 Buick GS weigh??

Tim

[PatBuckley]

Thanks Rick -

As I recall, wasn't there some other people or cars involved in this "road test"? Wasn't it a comparison test of some sort? My memory is a little fuzzy on this.

If so, you would think that they would have been caught.....I would imagine it would be pretty hard to hide a car that is pulling the left front wheel when launched! Especially one that is supposd to be stock!

Doing a darned wheelie is usually the first sign that things may not be what they seem.

It also amazes me that more people didn't say anything about this car back then....but perhaps they did and the rag didn't let on.

[Carroll DeWeese]

What I find most interesting about the list is that the Cobra cmae in second with older tires and technology than the other top cars on the list. With racing slicks and all, the Cobra would be first. But what is more impressive is that many of today's replica Cobras can outperform the listed Cobra. Talk about a "best buy": the Cobra absolutely shines.

[TerrysSPF]

That list is fun to look at, and reminisce about the cars of the 60's, but as for those times............I wouldn't put too much stock in it. It's impossible to tell what cars were tweaked, which weren't, which ran with the stock bias-ply tires, and which didn't (although you can probably guess by some of the times, ie: 66 'Vette 427 12.8 // 67 Vette 427 13.8), etc.....and take a look at some of those rear gears used for the tests!!?? Who goes to the track with a 66 Vette 427....... with 3.36 gears?? 69 Vette L-88 with 3.36 gears....and an AUTOMATIC?? 70 Cuda 426 Hemi with a 3.54 rear?? Stick a 4.56 or even a 4.11 in that 70 Chevelle LS-6 and see what happens!!

Carroll: You're right about the Cobra replica's! Best bang for the buck, for sure! Most properly set up replica's would dust that Viper GTS in the quarter mile...........even with 15" tires. Congrats on your SPF - it looks awsome!

[jhein]

When I was in my 20's, my buddies and I all had Pontiacs. I had a '70 formula RAIII 400, muncie M21, 12 bolt 3.73 rear. One guy had a '69 GTO "Judge", another '70 formula 400. We had to do all kinds of stuff to our cars to break into the 13's. I don't think I believe a lot of those numbers. They list a '73 TA with SD455 faster than a '70 TA with the revered RA IV motor, I don't buy it. Sorry for ranting, I know Pontiacs are a bit obscure.

[Buzz]

Jhein, don't be so quick to scoff at the Super Duty T/A's. Those engines were phenomenal performers - even moreso because they produced good numbers when all the other muscle cars had gone the way of the dinosaurs. They were rated at 310 and 290 HP in '73 and '74 respectively, but those were conservative Net figures as opposed to the overly optimistic gross ratings used before. I too was a big fan of the RA IV (and don't even get me started on the legendary RA V) but the 73/74 SD was superior. I lusted after the 74 model for years and finally bought a regular '74 455 automatic in 1978. I did a lot of tuning and tweaking with that motor trying to pretend it was a REAL Super Duty and my best time on N50X15 Formula 1 Super Stocks was 13.2. That motor was a brutal, monstrous beast down low but was eternally plagued by valvetrain problems at even moderately high rpm's. I really should be arrested for the amount of tire smoke I put into the atmosphere with that thing. Still dream about it sometimes.

[Excaliber]

...like I was saying, for "Street" cars 14 seconds in the 1/4 is STILL a pretty respectable time. You get in the 12's and you really got my attention! Sure there are "lots" of cars that can do 13's off the show room floor.

Ok,what is "lots" of cars? I think were talking a handful here, not counting "exoctics" using your fingers should suffice to add them up!

Viper (or is that an exotic at THAT price!), Vette, Porsche (see Viper), Mustang Cobra (will that do 13's off the showroom floor), not a "lot" of cars here! Feel free to ad to the list!

Ernie

[Kputz]

And All Wheel Drive is impossible to beat. Keep in mind that this measurement of going fast in a short straight line is almost uniquely an American measure of fast, and a reason our Cobras were truly track fast for only an extremely brief period of time long, long ago.
There is a reason SCCA banned AWD and ABS from all but the World Challange class back in the 80's. Currently they have relaxed their ban on ABS some and there is talk that the AWD ban might be revisited now that cars so equiped are getting older (cheaper). Audi ate up TransAm in the mid 80's against cars with horsepower ratings much, much higher and SCCA didn't need a crystal ball to know that the new tech would make every other unequiped car obsolete and drive the cost of racing even higher, as drivers had to ditch their American and European muscle for new cars just to stay competetive.
The Cobra was developed for the track, and the fact it went fast on the strip was probably more responsible for it's romance in the eyes of Americans. But it's still a track car in essence and despite the rush of traffic light to traffic light woo hoo, would rate far, far down the list of the truly fast track cars of today. It's best to keep one's perspective.

[Excaliber]

What makes a "fast" track car is about what class you run in. The Cobra, in many venues, is still a worthy opponent and not to be taken lightly.

Ernie

[Kputz]

And that venue would be......what??? Aside from Vintage, which is real racing.....except that it isn't....the last time I saw a competitive Cobra in a sanctioned event, I had acne.

[Excaliber]

My Excalibur did VERY well here in SCCA Solo 11 events. And thats with a STOCK 302. On open track SCCA I events I was easily over powered on the straight away but could hold my own in the twistys.

How a Cobra is BUILT determines the level of performance. How about this one for instance?

What do you think of our AP racer??

....not to even mention JBL!

The Cobra design may be old, that doesn't mean all the cars are.

Ernie