Cobras, unsafe at any speed - Page 2

mr bruce · #21 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 03:34 PM

Contrary to what these Cobra MFGs tell you in their sales propoganda, Cobras are NOT racecars. Even the originals built in the 60s weren't racecars. Few people could handle them. Shelby was smart enough to hire some of the greatest drivers in the world, and that is what built the race records and Shelby legend. No one on this board is named Earnhart or Gordon or Wallace, and the list goes on. Few real racecar drivers would attempt to hammer one of these FPSBs. They are rolling wrecks ,waiting to happen. What makes everyone else think they are in the same league?If you think you are, show up at any Nascar, Indycar, F-1, etc. race and show how good you are.

agro1 · #22 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr bruce

No one on this board is named Earnhart or Gordon or Wallace, and the list goes on. [/b]

Are you SURE about that ?? Don't be so quick to judge Mr. Bruce...Also, Cobras are not sold as "full-race" cars but you can easily make them into one with deep enough pockets...I did.

mr bruce · #23 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 04:04 PM

Sorry dued, Cobras ain't racecars. Surf around on Google.com punch in ASA, or Hooters Cup, or Winston West,Craftsman Truck Series those ARE racecarsOr pick up a copy of Circle Track magazine.Look at the chassis on those cars,full roll cages(Not a paper clip for a rollbar) and race suspension design(NOT some mishmash of passenger car parts) They will do laps faster than all Cobras,and far safer. Once Geoff Bodine was offered a drive in a Cobra, he told the cat that owned the car no way.He had a chance of surviving in the cars he was used to driving if he lost it.

Art Burtt · #24 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 04:28 PM

It's a funny thing but I tend to drive slower in my Vette than in my pick up truck. It's good to hear that I should never "floor" it in the Cobra. Maybe we baby them because we built them and have more respect for them????

Excaliber · #25 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 04:45 PM

A "race car"???? Well, now just what is a "race car" anyway??? I "race" my Cobra at Hawaii Raceway Park. The full "race track", half the race track sometimes (short course), SCCA "cone killer" runs, wheel to wheel, sometimes it's a "drift" (slide") on purpose event, the skid pad (wet or dry), etc. I don't do the "drag racing" thing, not my cup of tea. I put MY number on the car (#44, for Group 44 of Jaguar racing fame) and I "race" the hell out of my car!

When I leave the track and hit a local Saturday night "car show" at the drive in and somebody asks (as they do), "Hey, is this a "real" race car?" I answer TRUTHFULLY,,,,,,YES, it is!

So what your saying is the 289 FIA cars that brought home NUMEROUS RACING victories weren't "real race cars"??? Excuse me a minute,,,,,I gotta LAUGH at the thought! LOL

No doubt about one thing though: The Shelby mechanics considered the 427 SC's "dangerous" and used to make bets on how soon a customers car would be back in the shop "wrecked". FEW drivers were EVER able to "wring out" the cars full potential, MANY died trying.

Of course,,,,,,I'm better than ALL those "great drivers" of yester year combined! I also have a talking pig and another one that flies. Could I interest you in a bridge for sale???

Ernie

Cracker · #26 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 04:59 PM

GUYS! Mr. Bruce reminds me of the days when I used to so easily - lets say "push" their buttons. I too have gone overboard (some would think) in transforming my car into comp spec. but would agree in part that when driven remotely hard they are an absolute hadful. So now Mr. Bruce - you would need to type Earnhardt, Petty & Excaliber.

Cracker

CSX 4039 · #27 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeorgiaSnake

It's not the cars - it's the operators. Intoxicated by the sound and g forces.

Randy

Personally, I think they are, at least initially, pretty darn hard to drive. I see those 1960's pictures of Cobras rounding a corner almost up on two wheels, and I wonder how the heck big those drivers balls really were! I came to the 550hp Cobra, from a 300hp 300ZX twin turbo, with similar wheelbase. I got the 300ZX as a step up from a minivan. Like any other red blooded American boy, I grew up stupidly driving a 1960's 3 ton Pontiac 80 mph down winding roads when I was 17 years old. I could drive the 300ZX like a pro after a couple days. It took me a month of practice to begin to not want to crap my pants in the Cobra. Don't know why the thing scares the manure out of me, I am not known for wimpiness, but maybe my subconscious "death risk" sensors are overloading. I dunno. I want to take a Bondurant course, when time permits, and absolutely will NOT drive my Cobra like Rambo until I do, and then only in a safe environment.

TERRY M KRYSTOFIAK · #28 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 07:43 PM

As I reflect back to my cobra experences in '66 & '67, Im remineded how lucky im here today. At 21, I was always looking to prove "something" on the street. Had more than one close experence. Now at almost 58, track time is the "elderly" release. Thats not to say that being on a track does not lead to pushing alittle too far as one gets tied up in the moment. I really belive that any cobra has the potential for being unforgiven in even the slightest "mistake".

Rick Parker · #29 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 08:16 PM

Tinker 51: Well said!!!!!

Rick...........

petek · #30 (**permalink**) 05-08-2003, 09:40 PM

I'd guess that 90% of the Cobra replicas out there are not "race cars". Fast cars? Brutal with the acceleration? Yup. Represenative of fast and brutal racecars of the 1960's? Yup!

The only real race car I've ever driven was a Formula Ford. You can do some pretty amazing things in a Formula Ford ... right up until the millisecond that you loose it. And I think that's the difference between a Cobra / a fast Corvette or Porsche / and a racecar.

A racecar is stable right up to the line and then bang it's gone. A fast Corvette or Porsche is stable pretty close to the line and then you start to get some pretty obvious indications that you are about to run out of skill before you are going to run out of car. A Cobra is stable ... sometimes. You can start to run out of skill far before you run out of car in a Cobra. The problem is that you can get from "ok, I've got it" to "oh SH!T" pretty darn fast in a Cobra!

Take a C5 out to a track. Do some quick laps, pushing just as close to the edge as you feel comfortable. Take the same car and put it into the hands of an accomplished racecar driver. Who is going to have the better lap times? How close are the lap times going to be?

Do the same thing in a Cobra.

I think we'll all agree that the best lap times will be posted by the professional racecar driver. I also think that the differences between the lap times will be far greater in the Cobra than in the Corvette.

I'm looking forward to finding out just how far away my skill level and the performance of my Cobra are ... while autocrossing where the only thing I will probably hurt are a few cones and my pride!

Excaliber · #31 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 12:20 AM

In the months before I bought back my Excalibur back (going through withdrawalls real bad) I was seriously contemplating "my next car".

I bid on a couple of Lotus 7's. I have driven the Formula Fords before, there is a club of "racers" here. I came THIS close to buying one! But I want to DRIVE it to the track, race it, kick some butt (not neccessarily win) and DRIVE it home!

Ferrari maybe? Nah, to fragile. Viper? Nah, to heavy for autocross here, SHORT track layout. Corvette? Nice handling, good power, comfortable,,,,,nah,,,to "gold chain" around the neck look/feel for me. Porsche? Not really a big "German car" fan. LOVE the english stuff!!!! How about another Jaguar? Would HAVE to be a V-12 XKE though! Hmmm,,,,hard to find, not really "fast enough" in the end. Besides, been there done that. Lambo? Get out of here, COST $$$ and I WILL break it!

The Cobra,,,,it all kept coming back to a Cobra. Competitive car in a WIDE variety of race venues, not the best in any of them, but certainly is "bad news" in the other guys rear view mirror!

Simple to work on, easy to fix, not to "pricey" (and I WILL break it), and easily "smokes" the tires! Something the Jaguar's didn't really like to do! I can DRIVE it to the track, kick some butt and while the other guys are "loading up their trailor", I'm driving home. MAJOR grin/fun factor!

Heck, for a 40 year old design it's not bad, not bad at all! Not to mention,,,,,,it's without doubt the "coolest" car I've EVER owned! And I've had some NICE ones!

Ernie

Mark IV · #32 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 05:40 AM

..it HAS been happening since the 60's....

Look in the SAAC registry and see the number of entries with a "death car" listed.

This is CSX3326 in 1969..

I bought this car as a wreck.....so I WAS an original Cobra owner (but ask me if I ever got it rebuilt or could drive it....uh, well, ya see...)

I am sad to see anyone hurt or worse, in a car, and more so when it appears that it might be their own fault. The guy driving CSX3326 was an SCCA licensed competition driver, sadly holding that license did not negate the laws of physics. These cars were a handfull in 1966, better tire technology has only made the problem more difficult...where the old "blue dots" would have long given up, the VR rated tires today are still hanging on....to a point. This same issue happens in vintage racing, better tires and brakes has increased the cornering speeds. Cars that were driven by world class drivers in 1965 are now being raced by Dentists who feel they are immune from the laws of nature! (no I AM not an anti-dentite, Kramer).

I don't know what the answer is, I wish I knew.

Rick

GeorgiaSnake · #33 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 05:52 AM

The answer is you race on the track and cruise on the street.

Randy

Bill Wells · #34 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 06:03 AM

ya gotta treat these cars on the street like Aretha Frankin sings , with :

R-E-S-P-E-C-T !!!!!

casaleenie · #35 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 06:25 AM

The Shelby American Original Archives 1962-1965
David Friedman

(picture)

"The 427 Cobra ready for delivery to a customer. Everyone at Shelby American used to make bets on how long it would be until the car was returned to the shop with a blown engine or in a box due to a crash... Most employees considered these cars lethal and the 427's never enjoyed the popularity with the employees that the 289 did..."

I think this pretty much says it all....

Excaliber · #36 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 09:51 AM

casaleenie,,,,,,,that was the quote I was referring to. Thanks for posting it "from the horses mouth".

Yup,,,,,that says a TON about the 427 Cobra, with it's THEN limited horse power compared to some of todays engines!

Ernie

G.R. · #37 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 02:16 PM

Cruise on the street--Race on the track

I don't know how many times I've had guys come up along side me, in their Vettes, Porsches,Vipers, Stangs, etc and try and goad me into racing--to me for what purpose--to prove they have bigger cojones or a faster car?--Big deal I've nothing to prove to them--don't have to--why chance an accident or get busted for racing, have the car impounded, face losing your DL--way too much for me to lose--to prove what? Believe me I'm tempted sometimes but this ol' brains logic kicks in, I smile give'em a wave and cruise on--

Anyone who has watched Jim Colmans video "Bitten by a Snake" should pay attention to Olthoff's comments re:these cars v.s. hp etc--I think he made a lot of sense, as do others interviewed--

God forbid I have an accident in this car but if I do I don't want it to be one I could have prevented because I was doing something stupid on the street to prove nothing except how stupid I was--

Your "cojone factor" can quickly turn into a "OH S@#$ ...pucker factor" if these 400-600hp "fibreglass rollerskates" get away from you--going sideways on a city street at 50 can do that to you

Taking a performance driving school w/ wheel time in your own car ought to be something every owner should spend the time and money doing-- alot of us owning these cars are in the 40/60+ age bracket our reaction times are much slower , even if we think they aren't--We aren't in our teens and twenties, Guys

Drive a Cobra within YOUR limit being smart about it--not within the cars limit 'cuz very,very few can drive one at limit

Ok, I'm done off the soapbox

Cracker · #38 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 02:34 PM

G.R.

Beleive me - I'm not proud of that feat! 50/sideways( I wasn't even racing anyone)

Cracker

G.R. · #39 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 02:41 PM

Cracker,

Wasn't picking on you I did it myself wasn't racing either--that's when I decided I needed a driving school--right after I bought the car wasn't proud of that little stunt luckily no one was injured or property was damaged

Gary

decooney · #40 (**permalink**) 05-09-2003, 05:05 PM

Mark IV,

I've seen at least one of those dentists you are referring to go in a modified 427 SC competition at Laguna Seca. The driver was purposely started at the back of the pack, and he ran right by groups of Can-Am cars to first place finish. They can be fast when put into the hands of those with the technology updates, big balls, and espeically those with LOTS of track experience...

just FREAKIN SCARY if you ask me.