Cobra Safety and HP

[Richard Hudgins]

Hi Folks,

There is much being said about how dangerous these cars are.

Well, I beg to differ. Any of the chassis's currently available can handle 10 lbs per horsepower quite well and would be quite safe in the normal drivers hands. They would also be quite fast.

Let us look at some examples to prove the point of being a fast car.

Stock Porsche 993. 3250 lbs and 300 hp. 10.83 lbs per hp.
Corvette C5 3174 lbs and 305 hp. 10.40 lbs per hp.

Are not these cars quite fast? Maybe not the fastest, but they are not bad.

Now, let us look at some race cars.

Formula Atlantic, 1275 lbs 245hp 5.20 lbs per hp.

NASCAR Winston Cup. (Road race Configuration) 3500 lbs, 775 hp 4.51 lbs per hp.

CART 1575 lbs, 750 hp 2.1 lbs per hp.

F1 1350 lbs. 780 hp 1.73 lbs per hp.

Now let us look at a John Marseys JBL in go-kart stage.

2200 lbs 545 hp 4.03 lbs per hp.


You will notice that John's power to weight ratio is better than the Cup car and the FA car.

Can this level of HP get you in trouble? (I guess so, it got a pro drag guy in deep Sh$t and cost John a bunch of cash)

I notice that everyone here who has or is building a Cobra wants 500+ hp.

WHY?

The best drivers in the world have a hard time with power to weight ratios below 5 to 1.

Therefore, what makes you guys so special that you can handle power to weight ratios below this level, when the best drivers in the world have difficulty?

The bottom line here is that a 2500 lbs car for street use needs no more than 300 hp. Anymore then this is just plain stupid!!!!

[PatBuckley]

Of course you are right - but if your reasoning is followed then no one should own a Willys with a blown big block, or a T-bucket, or a Suzuki Hyabusa, or anything like this....let alone a JBL like Johns! My point is that this freedom of choice is part of what makes the USA the best country on earth!

I bet a lot of guys have .44 Magnums when a .38 is more than adequate.

I also think that most of the people who own these types of cars know that they can't master them. That some die trying is the bad part but I would be willing to bet that the same people who die trying in a car with a power to weight ratio of 4 to 1 would die in a car with a power to weight ratio of 10 to 1.

Pat

[Excaliber]

Hmmmm,,,and I been shooting for 400 horse. Hey wait a minute, the Excal is one of the heavier Cobras. Maybe 400 is OK for me. Now the rest of you guys go out and buy that restrictor plate. LOL

Point well taken Richard. We know from history darn few RACE drivers could run the Cobra at it's "limit".

Ernie

[renaissance man]

Great point Richard ! My car is 2250 lbs and 325 HP (289 HiPo). I am at 6.9 lb's per HP. Pleanty fast enough, sounds great and turns heads none the less!

Cheers

[Richard Hudgins]

Pat,

I did not say that anyone should not have the freedom of choice as to what sort power they should have in their vehicles.

I did not propose any sort of restrictions whatsoever.

My point is quite simple. 300 rwhp in a 2500 lb car gives you a power to weight ratio of 8.33. This combination will produce 0>60 times below 6 seconds. This car will idle, not overheat in traffic, will have a long MTBF, the cost will reasonable, and be fun to drive on the street.

Chuck Millers JBL has 345 RWHP. It is one of the quickest Cobras at Willow and it gets driven every day in all sorts of traffic. If this car had 500 hp, it may be faster at Willow, but it could not be a daily driver without a bunch of driveability issues.

You may correct that the same folks who crash with a 4-1 PR will crash a 10-1 car.

But they are going to have to try real hard to crash a 10-1 car.

With a 4-1 car you have try real hard not to crash.

The bottom line is quite simple. You design vehicle systems for the application and the end user capabilities.

I have driven many racing cars in the 2-1 and 4-1 range and I really enjoyed them.

But they would be way outside of my capability to use as a daily driver.

[BANDIT 1]

You all make the "assumtion" that every Cobra owner is about road racing. I don't think you speak for the 1/4 mile guys or other Cobra owners. I wanted a Cobra that could do 10's in the 1/4 mile with drag radials or slicks. Don't think any 300 horsepower Cobra's are in the low 12's. Some people want Cobra's for the "Harley" effect, the sitting at the light with the car making that beautiful sound that only a Big Block can make. The feel of passing a row of parked cars and setting off several car alarms.

Why is it that you all think we purchased our cars for some race track. I respect the Olthoff's very much, however it is only their opinion that a Big Block high horsepower engine is not needed in a Cobra. I understand it is the "road racer" in them saying that.

Let's make it real simple, if I was to race the Olthoff SPF Cobra that was in the September "Car And Driver" in two events (one, a "road race" and One a "drag race") Dennis in his small block Cobra would kick the $hit out of me in the road race event. I would kick the $hit out of the small block Cobra in a drag race.

These cars were made to give us a feel of the 1960's, if someone wants a "modern Cobra" with airbags, windows, anti-lock brakes, etc.. than they should get a BMW, Honda S2000, etc...

[Excaliber]

I don't see Richards comments as an assumption, I see it as "targeting" an audience for whom the message applies. It DOES apply to me. I'm not a big fan of drag racing myself, but I do love a good road race course!

Cobras make a great drag car too, and yup, you need PLENTY horse power in that venue!

On a short tight SCCA "cone killer" run it is often difficult for me to even USE all the horse power I DO have! Most of the time the SCCA cone killer setup leave me wishing I had more horse power, but not always. In the end, it's less about H.P. and more about "handling" for what I like to do with my Cobra.

Ernie

[G.R.]

I agree with Richard and the Olthoff's thinking on hp-- way more than enough hp with the SB--for me and my wife--but we don't race the car either--we use it a driver
I could've had a 500-600+ BB built--the sound is awesome from them -- they "look" right in the 427 Cobra body--

We don't drive it daily, it rains way to much here to do that, in a different climate we would--so it spends a lot of time in the garage--so why own it? Because I've wanted one since 1966 and can now actually have one.

[Back in Black]

But I also must disagree with Richard's assertion that the "best" drivers are in professional racing. It's like saying the "best" fist fighters are the world's heavyweight winners. There is an awful lot of untapped talent/natural ability out here in the world. What makes the professional drivers or fighters so valuable is putting that type of talent to dedicated TRAINING and or EXPERIENCE. I also want to say that there are an awful lot of shmoes out there on the street with 250 hp camaros and such that get themselves and others into some big wrecks, sans 500 HP. (like the ones locally that try to race me almost every day.. yawn) let's not pick solely on the power issue.

[Richard Hudgins]

Bandit 1,

I think that you misunderstood what I was saying.

I was speaking of Street Cars. Not racing cars.

Street cars are for use on normal everyday roads. Show me a normal everyday road where you can use your 650hp safely. Better yet, show me a road tire that will hook up that HP.

Now, as a drag car you are running on a RACE track. That race track has walls that keep you from running into anybody else. That also has safety crews, etc. right there just in case that 650 hp gets away from you. Also, if you are running 10's, you must have a cage installed and all manner of other safety bits to run at any sanctioned event. How many of the 500+ hp Cobras out there have proper safety equipment as required by NHRA, SCCA, etc.

The point is still the same. 95% of Cobra owners never go to any sort of track other than to watch. Therefore, there is no real need for excess power that will never be used and cannot be used on the street.

However, maybe it is fun to be able to light up the tires in third gear while driving down the freeway. Maybe it is fun to set off car alarms as you drive by.

But does any of that make for a really good road car?

BinB,

You just don't get it. Do you?

You speak of untapped talent, then you speak of TRAINING and EXPERIENCE.

Well, where does one go to get training to drive a 500+ hp Cobra? Where does one get the experience?

Where did you get yours?

Also, I would bet on the Pro over the amateur in any sport, everytime. Because they have the "TRAINING and EXPERIENCE", that the amateur does not. Pro level sports are a whole different ballgame. Try it for yourself sometime, I think you might be surprised.

[Back in Black]

With all due respect... I learned by being around high powered rods and sports cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper. It's a family thing. Many of the greats in the dim and distant racing past came to their first great wins on race tracks with only this.

I also have decades of high performance street motorcycle, and dirt riding experience. In my experience, most people tend to make the blanket and false assumption that others cannot possibly have the skill to defeat them (the person assuming) whatever the endeavor. this has been a major downfall for racers, fighters, and even armies and nations. Never assume.

As to 600+ HP on the street.. yes, my car hooks up nicely with my Pirellis.. do I do this often? Nope. My car is for fun driving and cruising 99.99% of the time. Maybe 100% of the time. I have nothing to prove.

The whole concept really reminds me of the "gun control" argument.. you know... how can MERE "average" citizens have the ability or skill to own a military weapon? Perish the thought. Of course they have done so in Canada, perishing even the thought . "They" (insert twilight zone music) are trying here in the states. We Americans often like big motors, voluptous ladies, and giant size pizzas. It's called freedom. If we fail in that responsibility, or allow others to steal our freedom thru false logic, then we will lose it.

[Bish Wheeler]

BiB, you are incredible.

So your skill comes from being from a family with a racing tradition.
What family would that be? Oh that's right, I remember you posted a story about how you and your brother out ran a CHIP in a jeep, powered with a 350 Chev. Something about 160 mph. Obviously your family racing traditon didn't touch on common sense, but seems to have done a good job at teaching you to stretch the truth.

Funny, I drive my car nearly every nice day. It is rare, very rare that a "schmoe in a 250 hp Camero" or anything else for that matter, tries to challenge me. Could it be that you are blipping the throttle just a bit to draw attention and invite a challenge? Nah, you aren't that immature!

Bish

[mrmustang]

Bish,

Ignore BnB, he is full of it 99.99% (maybe 100%) of the time. He gets off on the conflict, loves pushing everyones buttons about this and that. Can never be wrong about anything, always has to be "king of the mountain"..You know the type.........

BnB,

Face it, you'll never get it.....You feel that "it will never happen to me".....Sooner or later, the statistics will catch up to you. Whether your man enough to admit it here on a public forum remains to be seen.......





Bill S.

[G.R.]

Originally posted by Back in Black


Never assume.

[/b]

Ok hotshot, you just proved nothing--other than you just "so do not get it"---that's ok stroke your guns, pet your killer dogs lock the gates in your compound, go vrroom in your 600+hp car, know you are better than anyone else when it comes to racing--
after all you "know' everthing there is to Know and learn about about racing/driving hi-performance cars--'cuz you're just so much smarter than everyone else and you spent decades(?)driving bikes and street rods,etc.--BFD


Really sorry you're a Scot--embarasses the rest of us



You have good one-








PS you do know what assume means?
well you just made one out of me for responding--

ok Gary shut up--ok

[Bart Carter]

My car is being built to enjoy track days.

I am also going to enjoy driving on the street. But the amount of HP I use on the street will be far less than on the track. I can control that with my foot.

[Bish Wheeler]

BiB is the the kid we all knew in Jr. High School. Always wanted to hang with he cool kids, but he was a jerk and we would ignore him. He couldn't stand that, so he would shoot off his mouth and we would beat him up once a week!

I know, "shut up"! It's really hard.

Bish

[Excaliber]

So maybe BinB is one in a thousand with terrific natural talent (odds are 99.9% I'm wrong, maybe 100%, LOL).

Anyway, the basic principle of TO much horse power still applies to the rest of us, you know the OTHER 99.8% (OK, maybe 100).

Ernie

[Bish Wheeler]

Hey Gary,

In spite of my last name being Wheeler (somewhat English), I be at least 50% Scot, clan McJohn. Gonna go to Scotland next year, in the summer. Can't wait.

Hopefully Stevie Wonder (BinB's real name is Steve Robbins) won't be on my flight.

Bish

[computerworks]

Originally posted by Bish Wheeler


...I know, "shut up"! It's really hard.

Bish

uh-huh.

Let's quit the schoolyard stuff and get this thread back on topic.

Ron
ClubCobra Moderator

[Bish Wheeler]

Jeez Ron,

The person in question has an unpublished e-mail address, sits anonymously behind his keyboard thowing lightning bolts at every one. He won't come out and "play", so we have to get him in the school yard.

Ok, for now I will shut up, but the guy is an @ and we should have a forum just for @'s.

Bish