Cobra Safety and HP

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. casaleenie:

For any of the people that did "want a piece of me", I would show them what 600+ horsepower can do at whatever speed I am going (you "roast" the tires at 45mph, not many cars want to mess with that kind of power). They always then realize they are late for an appointment or apologize for thinking their supercharged Camaro or 4cyl. Turbo Honda is much of a race and they go there own way.

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by BANDIT 1




For any of the people that did "want a piece of me", I would show them what 600+ horsepower can do...

Gee, you sound like Mr. Doherty. Oh, that's right, you couldn't be. He died, and nearly killed his friend.

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Bolte:,

I didn't say I would race him, I said I would do a "burnout" and show the power (and sound) of a Big Block Cobra.

Let me guess, none of you do burnouts either...

[Turk]

Pat,
You don;t have all your facts. I thought I saw Evan on the drag strip with his car. So there. What do you have to say about that?

Coyled,
I agreed with everything in your post, until the last paragraph where you attemopted to do the math of safety based on street vs.track.

It is true there were probably more injuries on the street by Cobra owners than those who were on the track.

Street drivers:In jeans or shorts, baseball cap.
Track drivers:Helmet and driving suits.

Street: Lane markings with traffic coming at you .
Track: All vehicles travelling the same direction with lanes well protected.

Street cars: Casual driving, with maybe a two point seat belts.
Track cars: Five point harnesses, properly inflated tires on cars that have been freshly tech inspected.

Street cars: 48,542
Track Cars:358

Days driven:
Street cars: 7 days a week
Track cars: On specific days of the month of some months of the yer.

Miles driven:
Street cars:3,565,449 miles
Track cars: 5337 miles


I made these up, but I think you get my point. During the same period of time, all Cobras now in the hands of collectors and displayed in museums had ZERO fatalities.

The point is of course there would be more incidents, accidents, and injuries, as well as deaths on the street. There always is.
It probably is because they are driven, not trailered or displayed and there are a hell of a lot more of them doing that to inflate the numbers.

I doubt any racer on the track was ever drunk while driving, or they were driving a stolen car, or that they were trying to get away from the police.

TURK

They ARE indeed dangerous, and most of us know it, and still drive them.

[Excaliber]

I stand by my posts. I'm not dragging Mark D.'s name "through the mud". I was surprised at how his death personally touched me, I truly felt sad for him and his family. I guess because of this I dug deep to understand the circumstances surrounding his death.

Mark was a Cobra builder, it was HIS car built by HIS shop. The facts do indeed lend to themselves to a HIGH SPEED RACE that night, and NOT his first one.

Horse power doesn't automatically "lead to street racing", but it is obvious in this case it WAS a factor CONTRIBUTING to MARKS decision to RACE. For Real 1, high horse power would NOT have been a factor. For myslef or others it MAY well be part of the "equation" of a race mind set if OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES come together as well.

One thing for sure. Mark would NOT have raced the Trans Am with NOS if he had ONLY a stock 302. This is not an argument for or against horse power or street racing. It is simple LOGIC applied to the circumstances of THAT race THAT night. Many other factors apply.

To suggest Mark was simply "driving home" minding his own business is not in touch with reality. The fact that he "rolled" his car multiple times, the tracks apparent on the side of the road, the final position of the car indicate to me a fairly HIGH SPEED accident.

I want another 100 horse power REAL BAD. Why? Because there are a couple of cars I want to RACE real bad, and I want to WIN that race! The difference? I will race them at Hawaii Raceway Park, NOT on the street under ANY circumstances (I keep telling myself).

Ernie

[REAL 1]

Bandit 1: Your right. I don't know the facts personally. I'm just repeating what the ariticle said. The article clearly indicated both cars were driving at a hight rate of speed. Cobra + Trans Am + high hp + high speed = high probability that the article was accurate. Do you think that if Glassnake was driving a Toyota Echo things might have been different?

Are you saying that better tires, better suspension in modern cars makes you equal in ability to Shelby's team drivers and better able to handle 500hp, 600hp or more? Give me a break.

PatBuckley: I didn't get lost. I took the scenic route!

Brette Bolte: You are right sir. I have no interest in driving fast. I just enjoy driving my car. The sound, the feel, the open air, the powerful accelaration, the view of the front hood with the scoop (with correct rivets), the feel of the wood steering wheel, the look of the guages, the admiring looks from others, the people in the mini van next to you on the highway videoing your car as you drive while they are giving you a thumbs up. Its the whole experience.

Yeah. I've been called a "weenie" and a "f'n waxer" on this site because I don't "pretend race" on a track somewhere or because I don't do burnouts. Thats fine. They can call me a weenie from safely behind their computers. I've invited them to call me a "weenie" to my face. Funny, thing, no ones showed up yet.

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Real 1:

I should hope a car in 2003 is easier to drive than a 1965 car. Several Cobra race car drivers have even said it and it is well documented the "original" Cobra's weren't very stable. How can you compare the "driving ability" of a 1965 427 S/C Cobra to a 2003 replica with a 100% different frame, suspension, shocks, brakes, wheels, tires, engine, transmission, rearend, etc.. ?

Once again, we here that because the Cobra was "high powered" it caused everyone to want to race it. I don't think you guys get out much, how many high 11 second cars are running around the streets? Do you all see (in your dreams...) Cobra's racing Ferrari F50's, Vipers racing Porshe GT2's, Formula 1 cars racing on the street (I think you guys watched "Driven" to may times..)? 99% of street racing in going to be with Supercharged Mustangs, Camaro's, Toyota's, Honda's, etc... With their slower speeds (quickness) and there young age being a major factor in accidents.

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by BANDIT 1


Mr. Real 1:

I should hope a car in 2003 is easier to drive than a 1965 car. Several Cobra race car drivers have even said it and it is well documented the "original" Cobra's weren't very stable. How can you compare the "driving ability" of a 1965 427 S/C Cobra to a 2003 replica with a 100% different frame, suspension, shocks, brakes, wheels, tires, engine, transmission, rearend, etc.. ?

Once again, we here that because the Cobra was "high powered" it caused everyone to want to race it. I don't think you guys get out much, how many high 11 second cars are running around the streets? Do you all see (in your dreams...) Cobra's racing Ferrari F50's, Vipers racing Porshe GT2's, Formula 1 cars racing on the street (I think you guys watched "Driven" to may times..)? 99% of street racing in going to be with Supercharged Mustangs, Camaro's, Toyota's, Honda's, etc... With their slower speeds (quickness) and there young age being a major factor in accidents.

Bandit- do yourself a favor, "Step away from the computer with your hands up"!!!
All street racing is dangerous. It does not matter what kind of a car you die in, nor does it matter to the neighborhood resident what kind of car ran over their child.

Waiter, "Check, please"!

[coyled]

Turk, I know that statistically there are more accidents on the street for all of the reasons you pointed out. I am talking about guys on this forum that own cobras and want to drive them fast. Unscientifically, if you want to drive your cobra fast, I would bet that your chances of being in an accident and hurting or killing yourself or someone else are much higher on the street versus the track for too many reasons too list. The only way that the street is safer is if you drive like Evan. Evan won't get hurt at the track because he won't be there. He is probably the safest guy in the group. Scott

[meat]

Originally posted by BANDIT 1


Mr. Real 1:

I should hope a car in 2003 is easier to drive than a 1965 car. Several Cobra race car drivers have even said it and it is well documented the "original" Cobra's weren't very stable. How can you compare the "driving ability" of a 1965 427 S/C Cobra to a 2003 replica with a 100% different frame, suspension, shocks, brakes, wheels, tires, engine, transmission, rearend, etc.. ?

Once again, we here that because the Cobra was "high powered" it caused everyone to want to race it. I don't think you guys get out much, how many high 11 second cars are running around the streets? Do you all see (in your dreams...) Cobra's racing Ferrari F50's, Vipers racing Porshe GT2's, Formula 1 cars racing on the street (I think you guys watched "Driven" to may times..)? 99% of street racing in going to be with Supercharged Mustangs, Camaro's, Toyota's, Honda's, etc... With their slower speeds (quickness) and there young age being a major factor in accidents.

The original cars and the majority of the replicas are all unstable; they're a short wheelbase car with too much horsepower. Newer suspension technology, newer tires really doesn't fit into the equation other than the newer cars car far less forgiving, and will turn on you much faster than the original cars will. You'll be able to get closer to the edge - and have far less time to recover - with a newer Cobra with stickier tires and bigger wheels.

When an original Cobra would start getting nervous, it would practically write you a letter and seal it with a kiss to let you know that it was coming close to getting squirrely. A replica - even with fast reflexes - can lose traction faster than the blink of an eye, and spin you off into a ditch (or a "bluff"). And - to quote Maxwell Smart - "When you wake up, you'll be dead."

Oh, and:

Originally posted by BANDIT 1
For any of the people that did "want a piece of me", I would show them what 600+ horsepower can do at whatever speed I am going (you "roast" the tires at 45mph, not many cars want to mess with that kind of power). They always then realize they are late for an appointment or apologize for thinking their supercharged Camaro or 4cyl. Turbo Honda is much of a race and they go there own way.

That's just plain idiotic. I believe it was FFR 1069 that just recently did something pretty similar to that, and now he's settling his claim with his insurance company after totalling his Cobra.

Intentionally losing control of your car - ala burnout - in a crowd of people, or even with a car next to you - especially at 45 mph, is putting the public at risk. You have no right to endanger others through an act of stupidity.

The Corvette Z06 can haul back from 60 to 0 in 109 feet, in a controlled environment, on race pavement, with someone in complete control of the car. The only way you will beat that time - and you will beat it at some point - while doing a burnout at 45 mph is when you hit the parked car, the wall, the car next to you, or a pedestrian.

Your pal,
Meat.

[Dan Semko]

Evan,
You weenie and I will be at the DV Spring Fling again.
This time you get to buy the first round of drinks and I promise I won't even razz you about falling behind in the caravan or racing with Turk! well maybe just a little.....

[Excaliber]

,,,the scenic route? HA HA,,,,,,,,I see.

Ernie

[casaleenie]

Bandit,

WOW!!!!
and this has happened to you 100's of times?... WOW!!! again....

[REAL 1]

I agree with Meat.

Bandit 1: You are against "street racing" in any form on public roads. Right? Yes or No.

[BANDIT 1]

I keep forgetting you guys have tested ALL Cobra manufacturers cars with all engine combinations and have determined that a "new replica Cobra, regardless of the modern pieces is LESS stable than a original".

Oh. yea, you guys caught me. I have people line up at the curb and then I show them how I can control my car "driving dangerously" and not hit them. Have you guys been following me, you know so much about my intentions and everything?

[Hal Copple]

This is my first post on any of these sad threads about "street racing." I have "sinned" in the past, but i do work hard to have self control and disclipline when i driving my SPF. When i was on a Mitsu forum for years, these things happened there too, one of our esteemed engine buiilders had a few drinks at an Outback, left with his fiance, and a few hundred yards away, put them both thru a tree. Right now, in San Diego there is trial because of "street racing", see:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/09/ct...ace/index.html

But despite the possible assumption about the unfortunate Cobra driver's accident, as with a friend''s death this winter in his SPF, unless you are there, you really don't know what happened.

For instance, last summer, a really hot day in Charlotte, i accelerated down an asphalt on ramp, looked over my shoulder to see about my merging, and my SPF abruptly went hard right then left, and only by reflexes and good fortune, was i able to correct it, and complete my merge. I was at most 3/4 throttle, with concrete light poles just to my right.

I asked the Olthoff's, why my car would do that, when i never have had any incident of other than straight line accleration even with full throttle.

Bob said "you probably hit some coolant from a blown water line" from some other car. Since i was looking over my shoulder, i never saw the fluid on the road.

But if i had hit a light pole, i am sure everyone would have assumed I was hard on the throttle, and caused my own accident.

So you never really know.

I continue to have a healthy respect for my car's capabilities, and the risks i assume by driving it. And i am very leary of the risks to myself and others with injudicious use of my car's potential.

But i cannot say i have never "been there and done that."

Had a tryst with a modified Z06 recently, and after we waved to one-another, and a HP came up fast immediately afterward, then passed us, i renewed my personal vow to not do that again.

I am sorry for the loss of another life.

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by REAL 1


Brette Bolte: You are right sir. I have no interest in driving fast. I just enjoy driving my car. The sound, the feel, the open air, the powerful accelaration, the view of the front hood with the scoop (with correct rivets), the feel of the wood steering wheel, the look of the guages, the admiring looks from others, the people in the mini van next to you on the highway videoing your car as you drive while they are giving you a thumbs up. Its the whole experience.

Yeah. I've been called a "weenie" and a "f'n waxer" on this site because I don't "pretend race" on a track somewhere or because I don't do burnouts. Thats fine. They can call me a weenie from safely behind their computers. I've invited them to call me a "weenie" to my face. Funny, thing, no ones showed up yet.

[/b]

Oh my God!!!

Sans the description of the car, I could have written this reply..
Evan just described ME....Holy $hip it's true.... I'm a "f'n waxer, weenie" also.....

[Edley Rondinone]

Please tell us you arent going to change your Member name to Casa"WEENIE", are you? ;-)

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Real 1:

If you are putting ALL issues in one category:

Not fully obeying ALL speed limits at ALL times.

Any kind of "exhibition of acceleration".

Burnouts (from a stand still or moving).

Taking off quickly from a stoplight, stop sign, etc...

Entering the onramp of a hiway at "non normal" speeds.

ETC...

If you are calling them ALL "street racing, my answer is "NO"!

If you are defining "street racing" what I define it as:

Meeting at a place were "racing" is common to " race someone usually with a bunch of morons standing on the curb watching.

Doing 45 mph+ and doing a "burnout" with the same morons standing on the curb watching.

Racing in a residential or high traffic area.

Racing at high speeds.

ETC...

If this is what you are calling "street racing, my answer is "yes"!


As far as myself, if I am cruising on a two lane hiway in the middle of nowhere and there are no cars around. Damn right I'll take her from 70 - 100 mph for several car lengths and then back off, so what?

[Chuck Nickloy]

Richard,

This is really a great thread.

It has caused me to reflect on myself. I think everyone should be honest with him/her self and do the same.

For sure the street is not the place for demo's, racing and the like!! (I've been guilty )

For sure, many of us fit in your "stupid" catagory with regards to HP. Must admit, I like the HP. Real 1 your character is exemplary!

Words from the Master:

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

Not to be preaching, but some one may get it.

The best to all,
Be Safe!
Chuck: