FFR ebay $70,000

[Turk]

MotoCobra,
You and Evan may differ in your take of what is a Cobra, replica, original etc. etc.
However do not be so quick to think that Evan may not have the historical perspective you or your dad have on matters of "heritage".
You maybe surprised!

TURK

[Excaliber]

I won't bother to research any FFR's that sold for over 40K because I seriously doubt you would find any. Assuming they are a "few",,,,,,perhaps .00001% of the total of the cars built? NOt knocking them, just the facts.

Ernie

[computerworks]

Manny..
Welcome to the "other-side", as you call it "over there".

Not that he can't defend himself, but I can say it in a more brief manner...
Evan never has said his car is an "original".. he only defends its status as "real" and "genuine".

[computerworks]

also...

Do not twist this thread into one of personal attacks.

Take your anger and emotion off-line, if you must settle this with another....do it with e-mails.

Ron
Club Cobra Moderator

[casaleenie]

You can't buy this kind of entertainment at any cost....
These postings are great...
I can't wait for the DVSF so these issues are discussed "Mano e Mano" (sp). It's gotta be great....

Evans new count---470

[REAL 1]

MotoCobra: Now I'm an "ass" because you can't read.

Never said my car was "original". Its clearly not. But you have missed my point. Clearly par for the course for the FFR rabid.

As to "a people who lost a big part of their heritage" to the "Third Reich" I'm one of them pal. I can tell you stories of what they did to my family on my mother's side in Russia that would make your hair stand on end. My father was 1st Rangers in WWII and had the physical scars to prove it. I don't need a history lesson from you or your Dad. Believe me.

I didn't intend to refer to the fact that FFR owners are linked to the "Third Reich". I simply meant to refer to FFR owners who act like thugs in brow beating people and insulting people that dare to say anything even perceived as derrogatory about your beloved FFR. (Yet you guys feel you can trash the CSX with impunity as in calling it "fake", "copy" etc.. You guys are REALly something else.)

If you were dumb enough to interpret it any other way please accept my apology as it wasn't intended as you interpreted it.

As far as insulting the English, I didn't insult the English. The AC was a flimsy little roadster that would have faded into history to be nothing more than a footnote in some automotive book if it weren't for Carroll Shelby. Fact. It was Shelby that made it into a world champion. Not AC. It was Shelby and the boys that designed and created the 427 Cobra not AC. AC was little more than the fabricator and subcontractor for chasis and body. You need to do more reading on Cobra history.

CScott67: Again, I never said my car was original.

Maybe you never said the FFR on ebay was worth $70K but you did say others, in particular me, was elitest for arguing anyone paying that for a FFR is nuts. You then said FFR's have sold for over $40K. Not me.

While I couldn't care less if someone paid $40K or more for a FFR you made the statement so you do the research pal. Back up your statements with facts.

For those that missed this last time. My point is I don't believe the FFR on ebay was worth $70K and anyone paying that much is nuts. Its that simple.

Do I like FFRs. Yes. They are nice cars. Its that simple.

[cscott67]

Kudos on a semi-lucent and to the point post Evan. We have already agreed that you are a snobby elitest, and your opinion on a 70k ffr has nothing to do with it! ;o)

As for your proof of a 40k sale, what would you like? A copy of a cashier's check? Bill of sale? I have none of these, but I can refer you to someone who can help you. Try posting to David Borden over on the FFcobra.com website. He is/was the Norcal spec racer champ, and I am sure he can help you clear your mind on this issue. However, I wouldn't start with him about how superior your car is to an FFR. Also, there is a thread there on the same 70k topic you might enjoy perusing.

Enjoy your car, it is a work of art, and probably worth what you paid for it. Maybe one day you won't be afraid to race it. There are many people that do, and I guess they have bigger cahjones and deeper pockets than you or I. Scott

[larryar]

Are big blocks really that much superior to small blocks? :

[REAL 1]

I'm not that interested in checking out the $40K FFR. But I'll take you word on it. Enough.

I'm not a "racer" and I'll always be afraid to race my car. Remember, I'm just an elitest snob waxer.

Seriously, I would REALly love to get a FFR spec racer one day. Hmmm, maybe someday when I have the time and I've acquired the sense to stop playing hockey. Going out on the track I'm sure is a hoot. You never know with my Motocross and Enduro background I might even be pretty fast. Maybe even faster than Cranky himself. Now wouldn't that be something. "Watch it, elitest, snob waxer coming through!".

[MotoCobra]

I was wrong in my assumptions. I was wrong in my interp. of your "Brownshirt" statement. I let the wrong part of me respond and I'm sorry that -I- was the A$$ here.

For starters, it was Dior who just educated me on Curts origins and his "Brownshirt" issues with Dior way back when...

Again, I'm sorry and I should've just read and went to bed.

I was set off by the "truth" statements and the whole who's car is better thing... Once again, you have been pretty damn good about this and I was outta line.

The only thing I don't agree with you on is the "flimsy" statement. I'm of the opinion that the 289's ARE the real Cobras and the 427 became a joke to everyone at Shelby. Did the 427 ever win a race that mattered? USRRA? Nassau? Daytona? "Turd II", as some ol' guys tell it. They use to say some funny things about the 427 customers and how long 'til this idiot was going to wrap it around a tree or telephone pole...circa '65 and up...Venice and LAX locations, as I recall... BTW, I haven't heard ANY good 427 race stories from Gurney or Miles? Have you? Yet, they seem to love the old "Flimsy" 289's...See, I'm back, arrogance, history, opions and all!

But, more to the point: I am sorry about my stupid comments of late last nite and I hope you understand that I know that I was outta line.

I'm the A$$ on this one,

Manny

[REAL 1]

Motocobra: No way. Don't you try to take that name back from me. I'm the a$$! I insist on it! You see, I'm collecting names here. So far I've been called 31 different names on this site. Kinda like Baskin Robbins of insulting names. I'm trying to see how many names there are in the english lexicon. Then once we've topped out we'll move to other languages and dialects.

Don't sweat it. I've been called worse and I'm sure there is more to come.

In short. I respect what you have. I repect FFR for what they are. I have seen some builds that have knocked my socks off!

The thing to me is about mutual respect. No need to trash or insult another man's car. I get a little "sharp edged" in my comments as a way of returning fire. I try to be fair eventhough many aren't as charitable in their comments towards the CSX. Thats fine. I know some will never accept it as REAL Cobra.

As to the 289. Was the original AC Ace flimsy. Yes. Small diameter tube frame, horse buggy suspension. Shelby had to heavily modify it and develope it before it had the "stuff" to be a world champion. I don't say this as an insult but more as a testiment to the accomplishment of the car based on what it was when it started out.

No question. It was a two time world champ. The 427 does not have the race pedigree or lineage the 289 does. No contest. But the 427 never really had the chance. Was not homologated and came too late when technology and the Ford GT project was pushing it aside. Race technology had progressed to a point where even the 289 was eclipsed. Ergo the raison de etre for the 427. Had the 427 been created a year or two before it was, who knows what would have happened.

The 427 was clearly superior in design and suspension than the 289. It had to be to compete against the Grand Sport and the 275LM. Unfortunately the three never got to compete against each other for the World Manufactures Championship. Now that would have been a sight! Way cool.

[MotoCobra]

Real,

In the interest of your collection, I will concede the title @ this point. I reserve the right to re-claim it at some further point. I'll expect full disclosure of said collection at some future time via spread sheet for the approximate value of a good Napa Red (Hmmmmm...'93 Cab-Sav?).

31 flavors? The Baskin people are gonna be pi$$ed!

Now, about CSX, FFR and values. I'm not in possession of a CSX for only one reason: I don't see the intrinsic value of them as compared to other brands; or, as compared to the originals for that matter. This is something you and I can probably discuss at great length.

Alas, there are more important things: Yesterday I watched Ricky Carmichael and the #4 get SPANKED by Kevin Windham on his "Not as Factory" #14. I also observed Ryan Huffman ("Huff Daddy") give'em all Hell in the 125's on his KTM! So much for his retirement. Ya think he's been hangin' with MJ?

Oh, and since we are all probably inflicted with abstract loyalty issues: I'm a Kawasaki kinda guy. The only company that supports fat old farts like me and still makes a "REAL" (Absolutely No PUN here!) 500! The KX500, kinda like a 427 SC..."Too much power is just enough..."

Later,

Manny

[Traveller]

Speaking of being Kawasaki guy, I was a BIG Chuck Sun fan!

(I'm tellin' my age there!)

[REAL 1]

What has intrinsic value is all in the eye of the beholder and subjective. I, however, wanted a CSX because to me the fact that it is a Shelby Cobra was important to me. To me it was the "brass ring" Others could care less. Whatever floats your boat.

BTW: I used to race MotoX and trail ridie in Va. Grew up on dirt bikes. Been riding bikes since 10 years old. Started on a Yamaha JT 60 then went to Suzuki 125TS, 125 RM and then a 1974-5 Husky 250WR. Used to leave for the day of riding on the bike with my buddies right from the garage. No trailer needed. Those were the days!

Rode A Open class in enduros in the ECEA for years. Big KTM nut. 300 EXC was my weopon of choice. Broken my share of bones, knocked unconscious, bruises etc...All good stuff. . Have riden with Drew Smith and been passed many a time by Mike Lafferty who is a south jersey boy when he was ride'n Big Blue. Rode a national in PA and started two minutes in front of Randy Hawkins years ago. Lets just say I started out in front but it didn't end that way. Talk about nervous! A fast day for me was when I could stay close enough to still smell the exhaust of those guys.

The only thing Mike Lafferty and I have in common now is that we ride the same bike ie..KTM 450EXC. Man he is AWESOME. He is super human to ride as fast as he does. He just pulled the National Enduro Title on the 450EXC.



Now its just trail riding with my son. I am currently riding a 450EXC. Sweeet bike. Power everywhere and the weight of a two stroke. No need for two strokes anymore. Best was last fall when I was passing some 17 year olds on 250CR's at a local track on my EXC with lights. I think that messed them up a little seeing a Katoom 450 EXC with enduro trim pulling them out of the turns.

Now its just trail riding and goofin around.


For Kawi fans, remember Brad Lackey? Boy, those were the days. Bob Hannah, Brad Lackey, Roger DeCoster etcc..That was motoX. Memories.

[scottj]

Oh my gawd! Evan is a Motohead. I remember Bad Brad, The Man, the Flyin' Hawiian, Magoo, and of course, the Hurricane.

Remember when the AMA outlawed paddle tires after Hannah spanked Weinert at the Oakland SX with one?

Or how about the 3 good reasons to buy a '79 YZ?

My last full season in MX was '96, went to Lorreta's as an alternate in 30+. That year Mike Metzger borrowed my TV & VCR to promote his new video, then smashed my TV, A-hole. Saw RC smoke everyone on stock Kaws then I accidently knocked him down in the mosh pit at night, oops. He turned pro a week later.

MotoCobra- Ryan Hughes won the 125's at Hangtown on a KTM. Damon is "Huff Daddy".

[REAL 1]

Remember 70's vintage advertising "You meet the nicest people on a Honda"?
"Catch me if you can" Yamaha.
"Let the good times roll" Kawi.

Yeah. Those were the days. Most exciting T.V. back then was when the Wide World of Sports would show the National MotoX championship.

Hell I remember when the YZ first went monoshock in response to the RM forward mounted rear springs and when offset front axels were "trick" and Joffa mouth guards were the hot set up.

Yeah. I miss those days.

[Phil Manro]

Originally posted by REAL 1


Remember 70's vintage advertising "You meet the nicest people on a Honda"?
"Catch me if you can" Yamaha.
"Let the good times roll" Kawi.

Yeah. Those were the days. Most exciting T.V. back then was when the Wide World of Sports would show the National MotoX championship.

Hell I remember when the YZ first went monoshock in response to the RM forward mounted rear springs and when offset front axels were "trick" and Joffa mouth guards were the hot set up.

Yeah. I miss those days.

I raced in District 3 AMA, Upstate, NY from 1983-1986 on an '82 KX80 in the "mini's" for 2 years (one of the 1st liguid cooled years - man does that make me sound old) then moved up to a KX125 for 2 years when I turned 15. Back when a front disc brake was "trick", everyone raced a red, yellow, green or MAYBE a white bike. Ricky Johnson was hot then not, Jeff Ward was winning his final championship, the Hurricane retired, and you could count the number of enclosed trailers in teh District on one hand. Very fun times.

I miss those Sundays. Used to be a father and son day. I also miss the smell of pre-mix fuel in the air too. Nothing like that sweet smell.

MY son is now 6 and I hope to re-live those father-son Sundays in the near future.

Phil

[Edley Rondinone]

Honda's "Follow the leader, he's on a Honda" then Yamaha's "Dont follow anyone" spiel!

[Robert Evans]

Evan,
I think we've finally met at the crossroads! I'm sitting here in the office next to the garage and am looking at 5 KTM's, all patiently waiting to go out for a ride.

'03KTM 525SX (For the old body that still needs a shot of MX once in awhile. Absolutely the fastest bike I've ever ridden, including CR500's, and weighs less too.)
'02KTM 300EXC (When the track and desert are not on the agenda, but a nice dose of tight trail riding)
'02KTM 125SX (Son's bike)
'93 600 MXC LC4 with a Baja Designs kit (Great for doing wheelies on freeway onramps next to crotch-rockets! This bike is as reliable as a napkin, and has thousands of miles in Mexico with absolutely no DNF's))
'87 KTM 350 MXC (Yeah, it's old but it still looks new and runs like new)
KTM's are the CSX's of the bike world today!

Usually try to go out to a MX track about every other week or so, and am noticing that my two younger son's are starting to gain ground on their old man! This old body can't take the abuse that it used to many years ago.

Since some old names from the past are being thrown around, here's a few from my past too:
There used to be a place called Valley Cycle park out in Moorpark, CA that I used to race at. Bob Hannah's first big pro race took place there about (I believe) 1975. He rode an RM 250 Suzuki and smoked everybody. Very few knew him before then...many knew him after that. Suzuki blew it big time when they didn't hire him to a factory ride later that year.

Remember when the '73 TM 400 Suzuki's were taking a real beating in the Magazines about their poor handling and horrible engine? Well, Suzuki had Roger DeCoster ride a stone stock TM400 in the Open Pro class at Indian Dunes one day against all the local hot pros. He smoked them by almost a lap. I know, I saw it that day. Suzuki made the magazines eat their words after that.

I used to work at a place called Mid-Valley Cycles in Van Nuys, CA back in the mid/late 70's and we specialized in CZ's, Ossa's, and the new KTM/Penton's. We sponsored several national riders on Ossa's and KTM's at that time. Kenny Zahrt, Greg Robertson, and Marty Moates. I was fortunate enough to be Zahrts' and Moates' mechanic and pipe builder on the National's and at the Stadium races back in '75-'77. Both were top 20 national riders back then. Moates later went on to be the first American to win the USGP at Carlsbad. That track still exists just 20 minutes away from the house and still looks the same as it did when Adolf Weil and Gerrit Wolsink were winning USGP's in the early 70's!

Speaking of bikes with the (then) new suspension technology, most will say that the first to pioneer longer travel suspension on a production bike was Maico in '74, but remember AJS's? The 1972 model had moved up shocks and leading axle front forks, even before Yamaha factory bikes came out with the mono-shock in 1973. They had a whopping 6 inches of travel in the rear!

The 70's were the birth of true motocross in the US, and it was great to be there. It's sad to see it take a back seat to Supercross in popularity.

Bob

[Jamo]

Hi ya Bobby.