New to the forum

jayhawk261 · #1 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 10:14 AM

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and have not yet even purchased a kit. At this time, it looks like it will be at least 2-3 years before I do so as my wife is returning to school full time to get her Master's degree. It's hard to make the house payment and support a habbit on one income. I guess the house wins out, although that wasn't my decision!

I have been researching the options for kits and the one thing I have come to understand is that no one in this forum likes the FFR kit other than than the FFR owners. I am having trouble figuring out why. Looking at all the available info, it looks like FFR makes an excellent frame with many nice options. Their body looks as though it needs a bit more work than most, but overall it looks like a fairly nice complete package for the money.

Is it just the idea of a single donor car to build with? Incidentally, if I do purchase an FFR kit, I will not be using a donor car. I am not real big on used parts. Obviously things such as a rebuilt T-Bird IRS axle would be on the plate and I would be building an engine from a previously used block, but most everything would be brand new top end components.

Can anyone fill me in on the reasons? Sorry to be so long winded!

Thanks!

computerworks · #2 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 10:33 AM

Hello Jay and welcome.

FFR makes a great kit that gives the owner the option of building either from a donor or all new parts... your call.

To answer your question...straight business.. there are two main reasons FFR gets a bad shake:

1. Their original selling proposition was "build a cheap replica"...meant in a positive sense. That selling premise, however it has evolved, is still hanging over the car. Frankly, I think more guys build with all new parts today...since lo-mileage donors are getting scarce.... and since there is such a robust 3rd party parts business for FFR's, you don't need to go the donor route.

2. Many of FFR's design decisions depart from the traditional replica in appearance, and more correctly, capture the look of the Cobra, rather than replicate it. How important these visual differences are depends on the individual's taste... to the general public, they all look like Cobras.

Excaliber · #3 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 10:51 AM

I think you may be confusing the "no one appears" to like FFR except FFR owners with the "controversey" so often generated over the car itself.

There are two "extremes" you often find in here, CSX Kirkham cars at the top of the "food chain" and FFR cars, NOT at the bottom of the food chain, but to often close to it. There are many other Cobras that fall in between the two camps. Indeed SOME Cobras (and that could be ANY brand) are of such POOR build quality they are themselves a slap in the face to a Cobra aficianado.

FFR's are not "consistent" in their build quality. They vary widely from "great" to "horrible". It's more difficult to find many of the other Cobras that vary so widely. The "top shelf" brands are in fact very consistent in quality, 95% of the time being "great".

When a guy with a $25K car "attacks" a guy with a $75 to $125K and calls him names like "pigeon" for spending so much, you think he might be offended? Why is it that a high percentage of these kinds of "attacks" come from FFR owners and less from owners of "other" cars? Wish I knew, I don't!

Largely it seems to be a conflict between "correct" body style, "original style parts" used etc. and the "donor" concept. I have no problem with either "camp". But I clearly recognize the different quality and correctness of car "A" vs car "B" and if asked WILL point out that difference!

Would I spend a $100K or more to get it "right"? Maybe! Would I rather spend $25K to get it "close" and enjoy my ride for what it is? Maybe! I think "most" of the Cobras bring something to the party and I like to celebrate the differences. But every once in awhile someone will "crash" the party and make a jerk of themselves and others.

Caroll Shelby started the "party", he is essentially our "host". He has some faults, but I STILL respect his accomplishments and admire those that want to their car "right" and are willing to spend the money to do so! It "bothers me" that others are so willing and ready to "attack" that concept as a means of supporting THEIR concept of "cheaper" is better. It is only "better" for them, not for all of us.

Ernie

Chaplin · #4 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 11:01 AM

Jay-
Further to ComputerWorks' point 1, I think the early FFRs had some quality control issues, which I understand have been remedied. Thus, I believe the FFR of today is probably a much better product out of the box that than the early FFRs were. However, it's that old adage, you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

This weekend I took a ride with my neighbor who has a FFR that he finished last year. He did a great job with the car- it really is top notch. Every where we went we were people were waving at us and giving us the thumbs up. We even got a few "Is it original?". And the car was a blast to drive in- smooth, fast (0-60 in less than 4.5 seconds

, and felt like it was on rails. As far as fun the fun factor goes, it definetely is a Cobra.

p.s. FFR sounds like the right one for you- you'll need something to occupy your time while the wife is studying.

jayhawk261 · #5 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 11:07 AM

Ok, that does give me some info. I guess I haven't been on long enough to see the post from the FFR guys saying those things. Anyone who would put down someone else's vehicle, simply for the fact that they paid what they deemed it to be worth (and probably was), has some serious insecurity issues. I, for one, am all about knowing that you often get what you pay for.

I have not decided yet what to buy. Since I am in Tulsa I thought I would take a look at the RUCC kits as well. I actually have attempted to contact Roger Upton but have not heard back from him yet. From what I understand, this is normal for him. Whenever he gets back to me, that is fine. As I said before, I am in no hurry.

As far as high price VS low price goes, I am not a purist. Some of the things I want to do with mine is use new style Autometer gauges and things that will blend the classic styling with today's technology. I like what today's advances in engineering have done for the race crowd.

stale_face · #6 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 11:42 AM

I think the very bottom of the list are cars for sale that have unknown as the manufacturer, unknown as the builder. These are low cost (relatively) and if you are brave enough to take it home and disassemble it, you never know? Might be a Picasso under that grime...

BANDIT 1 · #7 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 12:10 PM

To be quite honest, the first step is to determine your price range. After you figure that out, then you need to do your homework on each brand that is on your list (that includes going to see them...).

There are several Cobra companies in the Kansas City area you might try. One is Premier Motor sports and the other is Pegasus Performance

jayhawk261 · #8 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 12:48 PM

Ok, that does give me some info. I guess I haven't been on long enough to see the post from the FFR guys saying those things. Anyone who would put down someone else's vehicle, simply for the fact that they paid what they deemed it to be worth (and probably was), has some serious insecurity issues. I, for one, am all about knowing that you often get what you pay for.

I have not decided yet what to buy. Since I am in Tulsa I thought I would take a look at the RUCC kits as well. I actually have attempted to contact Roger Upton but have not heard back from him yet. From what I understand, this is normal for him. Whenever he gets back to me, that is fine. As I said before, I am in no hurry.

As far as high price VS low price goes, I am not a purist. Some of the things I want to do with mine is use new style Autometer gauges and things that will blend the classic styling with today's technology. I like what today's advances in engineering have done for the race crowd.

jayhawk261 · #9 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 12:49 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to do that!

Clois Harlan · #10 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 01:09 PM

Jay,

The best way for you to compare the various kits is for you to come to the Southern Hills Marriott starting Wednesday June 18, 2003 thru the afternoon Sunday June 22, 2003. The "Ford Performance and Shelby Meet" will be there that week. If you want to see how the various brands perform then bring your family out to Hallett Thursday, Friday, or Saturday (6/19-6/21 2003). In addition to 60 or so Cobra's (Real and Replicas) you can meet with several of the vendors as well. Last year there was several cars from each of the various Cobra Kit Car manufactures eg: Shelby, Superformance,B&B Mfg., ERA, Hunter, CMC, Lone Star,Everett Morrison, Shell Valley, and I know of two or three FF5 locally that will be there.

This is a good family to belong to wheather you race or just cruise and polish. In the meantime while you are aligning all your ducks you can determine what you will be needing to complete whatever kit you choose and take advantage this time to plan and research your desired drive train. Most of the Cobra's will be available and the owners are usually glad to answer your questions.

jayhawk261 · #11 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 01:29 PM

Thanks for the heads-up on the meet. I will definitely be there!

As far as making decisions on my options, drive train and so forth, I have made many already. I spent my earlier years (17-24), not that I'm that old now, drag racing and building late model Mustangs. My first ride was a 79' that I put a 351W in. It was hobbled together from what I could afford. After a couple of years of testing and tuning it went 12.22 @ 111 mph. I also spent many years as a technical sales consultant for Reliable Automotive and for Automotive Performance Wholesalers (now Keystone of Kansas City).

I still have the 351W block from my first car and it will be the base for my Cobra engine. The plan as of now is a 418 stroker built for about 1 to 1.2 HP/CI. That seems like a reasonable goal and will still allow premium pump gas to be run.

As far as my kit goes, I know I want to do the majority of the build. Doing automotive work is absolute therapy for me.

Are you going to be displaying at the show? If so, I will stop by and have a chat if you're available.

Thanks again!

SSS · #12 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 02:20 PM

From another newbie, welcome!

I would definitely disagree that only FFR owners like the FFR kit. Anyone who builds a car themselves appreciates the FFR kit. There's nothing wrong with it. The battle between FFR and non-FFR is based mostly on the typical value of the finished cars and accuracy with the originals. If you're not a purist and want to build the car yourself, FFR should be right up your alley.

Have you considered B&B? They're just up the road from you in southwestern Missouri, and they make a kit you can build with new parts at similar cost to an FFR.

Good luck!

Clois Harlan · #13 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 02:34 PM

I don't know about displaying but I will definitly be at Hallett racing Thursday-Saturday (many of us have opted not to compete in the drags because there are so many cars there). We normally load our cars up and take them in the trailers Wednesday night or early Thursday morning and leave them in the trailer at Hallett until after Saturday's races. The race track provides plenty of security plus most of us have enclosed trailers that we lock.

Sunday will be a car show from about 9:00 am until about 2:30 or 3:00. Also, something I didn't mention was that each day there will be a "BIG" swap meet at the race track and on Sunday at the car show where you can find virtually anything thing you will ever need for your Cobra and ususally the prices are very fair. Last year there were several New Old Stock 428 and 351 blocks etc. In addition to the many swap meet vendors there will be numereous new vendors such as Eibach, Edelbrock, Currie, SVT, brake, shock, suspension, wheel and tire mfgs etc. It will be a good time after the races too. The Southwest corner of the Marriott parking lot will be occupied by the Texas groups trailers and tents and probably about 6:30 or so you can find me there exercising my tennis elbow.

All kidding aside this group will make you welcome and answer any questions you may have and if Doug shows up again from New Orleans this year I am sure he will be offering up some of his cajun cooking. Please come and join us.

My car is #21 and is Viper Blue with a white strip with Red and Yellow racing stripes on the drivers side fender. I hope you stop by and say hello. We always have several coolers with your choice of beverages.

Clois

PS- Slow Dawg try and get Bryan or Barry to set up a display this year. Who know Barry might just sell his car that weekend.

jayhawk261 · #14 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 02:50 PM

Thank you for the invite Clois. I will be there and look for your ride on Saturday night at the Marriot corner lot. I appreciate all of you guys making me welcome. I have only lived in Tulsa for a couple of years and I have as yet to find much of anything to do. by the way, my Name is Randy. I go by Jayhawk261 bacause I'm a KU grad and 261 was my race number back when I used to race personal watercraft years ago. Not that nayone was real interested!

BigSky · #15 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 07:37 PM

I am the "newest" newbie, but I'm one of those balding old guys that is trying to make the "Cobra Dream" a reality . I am learning alot about the different cars and companys from reading the posts here on Club Cobra. Thank's for sharing!

By the way, what do you all think about the HDR ROADSTER?
It looks pretty tasty .

Thanks, BigSky

southernfriedcj · #16 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 08:00 PM

I think the FFR is a great car. Seems to me, some folks here look down on it and some FFR owners have an inferiority complex(I base this comment on the anti CC posts & anti "high dollar replica" posts on the FFR forum).
I think it's funny as hell that people get their panties in a wad over which replica someone has or what some thinks of their choice.
Now Ford vs. Chevy, there's something to get riled up about!

Ozona · #17 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 08:27 PM

No complex, I just get tired of some of the crap that gets dished around here.

If you're interested, take a peek at www.ffcobra.com and see what building vs. buying is all about.

Go to the spring fling, you'll be able to see every make next to every other.

snake oil · #18 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 09:45 PM

If you really want to see every thing in cobras
THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO SPRING FLING !!!
200-300 snakes all at right there in front of you.
With all different setups and combinations, you get to compare them side by side!
small blocks, Big blocks , Huge blocks

and even a couple of V6's!
any color you can think of!
Check it out it's the best bang for the buck!

Turk · #19 (**permalink**) 05-19-2003, 09:54 PM

southernfriedford,

Not that old Ford vs. Chevy stuff again.
Last time you did that I thought we pretty well established Ford or Chevy was the FFR of the two.

Good day!

Excaliber · #20 (**permalink**) 05-20-2003, 12:08 AM

Well,,,,,,there is ONE group of people who have put a Chev motor in a Cobra with "style" and "class".

Those crazy, wild folks from "down under"! Just no telling WHAT you might find under the hood OR the body for that matter! I tell you,,,Mad Max is REAL. LOL

Ernie