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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2003, 09:01 AM
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There is a web page that outlines the atributes and years built for the 427SO and TO unfortunatly they dont have quantities. Check out http://www.gessford.com/images/fordsup-33.gif Heres what they have to say about the block Apparantly some 63 and 64 engines were the same as 390 and 406 blocks with beefy bottom ends and webbing with 2 bolt mains. Some in that same vintage had cross bolts that usually apeared in low and high risers. 65, 66 and 67 were all SO's and 68 was SO withoil galleries to the lifters as these had hydraulic lifters. If mechanical lifters is retroed these have to be plugged. It stands to reason that unless ford was dumping some 64 engines that most or all the 427 cobras were side oilers
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2003, 03:34 PM
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427 Sharpe: You are correct. I was referring to the Boss 429 not being a drag-strip car, only in the sense as a "street" vehicle. I even mentioned WOT as the best utilization of this engine design.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2003, 03:33 PM
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I dont think a 460 is a bad engine at all,,it has to be good,but it seems everyone who has them,,ditches the 427,just because it is expensive dosent mean it isnt great,,the expense of building is most likely why it demised,I mean a 427 was for nothing but racing,,a 460 was in everything from lincolns to ambulances,so it makes sense to use that design to ford,
I had weighed the battle for a long time,,I wanted a 427 and only a 427,but the cost thing was a problem ,and I wanted my emblem to match what was under the hood,I had thought once about the 514 with 429 cj valve covers,but then decided if it wans't going to be authentic,,I would just as soon have a windsor stroker disguised as a 289 hipo,I do have to admit the 429 cjs sounded great,,much different than the 514,,
I dont think a center oil was ever put in a cobra,,the time frame wasnt right,,and I doubt they would put a marine block in a cobra,acording to the shelby registry they were all side oilers,,with the comp cars getting high rise top ends,,BTW,any one interested in swapping new dove or shelby med riser heads and 2x4 intake for dove high rise ? this stuff is great on the track,,but I want the low end of a med riser,,Tk
I am glad this debate is over,,
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2003, 06:04 PM
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Mr. Misfit:

The 460 engine only ended up in the Lincolns and trucks because it just happened to come out at the end of he musclecar era. Everyone here makes it out that the 429/460 engines were made just for Lincolns and trucks and then they were modified alittle to be hot rodded. The reverse is true...
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2003, 07:46 PM
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351C and the 400M were typically found in Trucks and Lincolns also. With the right mods they can be a powerful performer. But I think the original intent and design was more along the lines of a "work horse" general application motor.

An interesting thought that perhaps the original intent/design of the 429/460 was first "performance" and trucks were secondary? Hmmm,,,,,what does it all mean!

Ernie
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2003, 09:22 PM
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Excalibur:

The evolution at that time was the engines getting bigger (390/406/427/428/429/460 etc...). If a 460 is a "ripoff" of a Chevrolet Big Block, does that mean that Chevrolet Big Blocks were built for trucks and Caddies? The 385 series engine started as the 429 Hi-Performance, 429 Cobra Jet, 429 Super Cobra Jet, and 429 Boss. Where these truck engines? Where they Lincoln engines? The 454 c.i. Chevrolet engine get's the same rap, it was built at the end of the "musclecar" era.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2003, 10:13 PM
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I see your point. It do get fuzzy what the intentions were. I guess the fact of the matter is, with the right cam profile, intake etc. you can make it do what you want.

The best "truck" engines typically will have a longer stroke than the size of the bore, for purposes of "torque". But that alone does not a truck engine make.

The Chev 305 (what a dog that was) has longer stroke than bore but was designed for "emission control" above all else.

How about the old Chevy 348 (later the legendary 409)? The 348 was considered a "truck" engine!

Racing? Short stroke, big bore. That "formula" (arguably) would make the 429 more desirable than the 460?

Ernie

Edit:
Man, was Computerworks onto something or what when he split this thread off another thread, LOL. THAT was brilliant!

Last edited by Excaliber; 06-03-2003 at 10:15 PM..
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2003, 08:53 AM
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I think the Lincolns had 430ci till the sixties then went to the 460. I don't think they ever had a 400 in them. 400s turned up in the 73 74 cougers with a 2 barrel they were dogs and drank gas. thats why they had 26 or 28 gal tanks and were lucky to get 200 miles out of a tank.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2003, 10:47 AM
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with all respect Mr bandit,,I think we're beating a dead horse here,,I am sure your correct about why the 460 ended up in lincolns and the like,the first thing I remember seeing them in were the huge 75 { I think}t birds,then the 350 econolines,we had lots of problems with them holding up in ambulances in the early stages.
The fe's were being phased out for a more adaptable design,the 460's were retro fit to 351 and 400 trannys and such.At the same time epa was coming down on the car builders,the trend was big cubic inches and low compression to keep emissions low and inable using unleaded gas,while keeping some small image of performance,,then came the ugly stripes and decals,the cars of the mid/late 70's werent fast but they tried to make them look like it.
I suppose since it is in the same design of the 429 a 460 could be considered a performance engine adapted to general use,and I will give you this,when you take a huge displacement engine with average heads and fuel delivery ,combined with very low compression { like the stock ones were },then throw in good flow,,high compression and hot parts,you do get awesome horsepower on the cheap,this is kind of a throw back to the early hod rodder days when guys took huge caddy and olds engines ,added hot carb set ups and cams to get big power for small bucks in the early rods,I am all for it,,
I saw the link to the 427 2 bolt main blocks,actually i have the ford book that is from ,what i dont understand is this,while I have heard and read a couple times that early 427's werent cross bolted,I havent talked to any one who has actually seen one,on the other hand,I have seen very late 406 blocks {Nascar}that were crossbolted from ford,it is natural to assume these were the 427 predessors,why would it be both ways ? dosent make since to me,,but oh well,,
I still have a headline from a daytona paper after the 500 in 1964,," Fords Flew,and Chevys Blew"
ya gotta love it,,,Tk
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2003, 07:37 AM
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I just read something interesting,,the fastest short circle track ford in the world is powered by,,guess what ? a stroked fe 427,go figure,,,T
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2003, 11:27 AM
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Misfit:

The fastest Pro Stock Ford is a 385 series engine...

The fastest Drag Boat Ford is a 385 series engine...

The fastest Monster Truck Ford is a 385 series engine...

4 out of 5 engine builders recommend the 385 series engine...

So what?
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2003, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BANDIT 1


Let's see, Shelby Cobra with a 427 c.i. engine (aka. 500 horsepower) and a 4-speed transmission v.s. Superformance Cobra with a 514 c.i. engine (aka. 600+ horsepower) and a 5-speed transmission = WINNER: Superformance Cobra...

P.S.

That is even if Shelby put's a 427 S.O. engine in the "CAV" Cobra, he might use the 428 c.i. engine...

My opinion is this, since the Shelby "CAV" Cobra will not be identical to the "original" Cobra and therefore is in direct competition with the SPF (etc...) Cobra's, I will go with the faster car.
SAI sells a car seperately from an engine, and you can buy whatever engine you want. 289, 302, 351, 390, 406, 408, 427, 428, 454, 464, 526, etc! You sure aren't locked into a 427. I thought that's how everyone did it, including SPF
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2003, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BANDIT 1


Every magazine out there compares "similar" vehicles, usually by price range. This is usually a CSX4000 owners excuse as to why a $60,000.00 + Superformance Cobra will beat it at every test, period. .
Where are these, quote, "usual" excuses, derived from these "tests" you talk about? And where are these tests?

As far as excuses go, sounds loud and clear like you are making an excuse why SPF has to have a bigger motor. Anybody who grumbles about two cars with same engine being unfair is waving a giant red flag.

Bandit:

The fastest Pro Stock Ford is a 385 series engine...
The fastest Pro Stock engine isn't a Ford at all...

The fastest Drag Boat Ford is a 385 series engine...
The fastest Drag Boat engine isn't a Ford at all...

The fastest Monster Truck Ford is a 385 series engine...
The fastest Monster Truck engine isn't a Ford at all...

4 out of 5 engine builders recommend the 385 series engine?! Nope, that one ain't flying. More assertations with zero facts. 4 out of 5 Cobra owners prefer FE over 385? NOW we got a winner!

So what?


Last edited by Bubb Rubb; 06-08-2003 at 02:31 PM..
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2003, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BB427


Short reply:
Drag racing = 500+ ci. 385 series
Road course = 351+ ci. small block
289 Cobra = Small block
427 Cobra = 427 what else?
All of the above = NO BOWTIES!

Type of car = Who cares....If you like what you have....perfect!
Hehe, best reply yet!
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2003, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bubb Rubb


Where are these, quote, "usual" excuses, derived from these "tests" you talk about? And where are these tests?

As far as excuses go, sounds loud and clear like you are making an excuse why SPF has to have a bigger motor. Anybody who grumbles about two cars with same engine being unfair is waving a giant red flag.

Bandit:

The fastest Pro Stock Ford is a 385 series engine...
The fastest Pro Stock engine isn't a Ford at all...

The fastest Drag Boat Ford is a 385 series engine...
The fastest Drag Boat engine isn't a Ford at all...

The fastest Monster Truck Ford is a 385 series engine...
The fastest Monster Truck engine isn't a Ford at all...

4 out of 5 engine builders recommend the 385 series engine?! Nope, that one ain't flying. More assertations with zero facts. 4 out of 5 Cobra owners prefer FE over 385? NOW we got a winner!

So what?

If you can read then what I have said was very clear. In all of the examples above the word "Ford" is in there. I suggest the "Hooked On Phonics" program if it wasn't clear enough.

I don't remember saying there were any "tests" that say one engine is better than the other. I said I would be happy to set up a magazine article between a "standard" CSX4000 Shelby Cobra and a "standard" setup Superformance Cobra. It is people like Evan that have made statements they can't back up. What is the big deal between "the bigger Superformance" engine. 427 c.i. -VS- 460 c.i.?

Last edited by BANDIT 1; 06-08-2003 at 05:59 PM..
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2003, 12:10 PM
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Default Just to make this topic a little more interesting...!!

Would a 429/460-514 385 series motors drop into a CSX4000 body and frame......????? hehehe
You could have the best of both worlds guys.
Any one to start it off.
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