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06-05-2003, 03:07 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,085
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Not Ranked
Interesting Information about K&N Filters
I asked them if their filter allow more dirt along with more air and this is what I got back:
Dear Rob,
Our filters, filter as good or better than paper while still increasing the air flow. Our filters are tested by an outside, independent laboratory. They have been proven to stop at least 99% of particles on a SAE dust test. This test uses particles as low as the 0 - 5 micron range and goes up to 20 microns. For comparison, a paper filter also stops 99% on the same test and the OEM minimum standard is 96%. Foam is generally the worst media with a typical efficiency rating of 75 - 85%. To get higher ratings, the foam must be more dense and therefore way more restrictive. The "tack" characteristic of a K&N allows for increase filtration without loss of flow as well.
The testing procedure used is SAE J-726 using ISO Test Dust. This test is the standard of the air filter industry. The test procedure consists of flowing air through the filter at a constant rate (airflow rate is determined by the application) while feeding test dust into the air stream at a rate of 1 gram per cubic meter of air.
As the filter loads with dust the pressure drop across the filter is increased to maintain the prescribed airflow rate. The test is continued until the pressure drop increases 10" H2O above the initial restriction of the clean element (in this case .78" to 10.78" H2O). At this point the test is terminated. The dirty filter element is then weighed. This weight is compared to the clean element weight to determine the total Dust Capacity. The amount of dust retained by the filter is divided by the total amount of dust fed during the test to determine the Cumulative Efficiency.
The K&N filter achieved the following results:
Dust Capacity: 305 grams
K&N Cumulative Efficiency: 99.05 %
K&N Initial Pass Efficiency: 97.11 %
OEM Paper Cumulative: 99.29 %
OEM Paper Initial Pass: 96.47 %
Holding the filter to the light is useless, pin holes are normal. That is what makes a K&N filter. There are actually dozens of microscopic fibers that cross these holes that when treated with oil become somewhat transparent but still capture and hold the very fine particles. Spray WD-40 on a piece of paper and it will be transparent too. On the same hand, they allow the filter to flow more air than paper or foam. The filter is 4 ply cotton gauze unlike some competitors synthetic material filters. The synthetics do not have the very small fibers that natural cotton does. Also, the oil can be pulled off of a foam filter contaminating electronic sensors. It will absorb into cotton and stay in the media.
We got started over 30 years ago making filters for motorcycles and off road racers. The filters did so well that these guys wanted them for their cars and trucks. We started making filters for these applications and here we are today. If they did not work, we would not still be here and growing every year.
We now make filters for Chrysler/Mopar, Ford Motorsports, Edelbrock, Rotax Engines, and Harley Davidson. We come as original equipment on the 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra-R. We even made filters for the Apache helicopters used in Desert Storm because of maintenance problems with the original paper design. Now we are on the new unmanned Predator plane being used in Afghanistan. If they work in these conditions they will work for you. Links to the filtration tests are on our web site at http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif and http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif
Thanks for writing, Fred
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06-06-2003, 07:16 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Neverland,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 7,460
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Not Ranked
I took my F250 back to Ford for an oil change and some warranty work.
I was told that if I changed the air filter in my truck to a K&N filter it would void all mechanical warranty on the truck. They told me they had a NEW F350 in the shop at that time (10,000 miles) (that I actually saw) that the diesel engine was getting replaced and it was "CAUSED DIRECTLY BY THE K&N FILTER" and would NOT be covered under any warranty.
I could not believe what I was hearing. The Ford rep repeated himself to make sure I heard correctly. The reason is they do not fit the F-series filter boxes correctly and they are less productive than the the factory filter that came in my truck from Ford. The filter lets unfiltered air into the engine at an enormous flow rate. They then took me out to the NEW F 350 and showed me that the K & N filter was the correct filter per K & N and that it simply did not fit the filter box.
I saw exactly what they were telling me. The filter did not fit the box well at all. It let unfiltered air into the engine from both sides.
I wrote the part number down and went to a local auto parts store and looked up the filter and part number for myself and the Filter in the truck at Ford did in fact have the correct part number in it. I asked the guy behind the counter and he told me the same thing that Ford was not standing behind engine failures for ANY reason if a K & N filter was in the truck.
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06-06-2003, 07:30 AM
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Renegade Nuns on Wheels
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: columbus,
Oh
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique 427 roadster with 351C-4B
Posts: 5,129
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Not Ranked
Some interesting information and some good points
Do:
- check with your manufacturer about warranty
- run an airfilter
- run one that fits correctly
Void the warrenty. First time I have heard an airfilter do that! But it sounds as though the problem is not the quality of the filter material but rather it just doesn't fit! Good thing that is not an issue on my Cobra!
Rick
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06-06-2003, 12:51 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 31
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Not Ranked
One other issue with K&N filters is the oil can migrate to the wires on the MAF sensor which in turn decreases their ability to measure the air passing across them. If you are blown and pushing the edge of your tune the oil is enough to cause you to go disasterously lean.
__________________
the early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese
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06-06-2003, 01:24 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley, Mopar thingy (small block of course)
Posts: 2,215
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Not Ranked
By law, an oil or air filter cannot void the warranty if it meets or exceeds the oem specs. In this case it seems the filter does not meets oem measurements. I found this out because a local quick oil change company had oil filters that would burst the can. I always took my own filter after seeing three cars at the dealership, all with the outer case split.
__________________
Brent Dolphin
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06-06-2003, 02:18 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,597
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Not Ranked
The way I read this is the warranty was voided because the filter did not fit correctly an not because of it not meeting specs. If it doesn't fit correctly and lets in more air, then they have the right to void the warranty. That is the same as driving in with the filter out like we used to do when we were kids and didn't have to worry about MAS and other high tech sensors getting thrown off and ruining an engine. I had a new 1965 Ford Galaxie 500XL and talked to Ford about changing the air filter to another style and they told me as long as it didn't let unflitered air in I could use any type I wanted to. And that was before all the electronic stuff so they would have voided my warranty if I drove without an air filter and anything happened.
Ron
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06-06-2003, 06:41 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,085
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Not Ranked
Yeah, if the filter didn't fit, it didn't fail, it simply did filter. The air will pass through the easiest hole. . . Essensially he ran without a filter. . . . But it seems if the air went through the filter, it should do better than a paper filter. Also, the oil issue happens with foam filter, the K&N, if not over oiled should not do that.
Here is what the law is about aftermarket equipment is: (but dealers will always try to get away with not following it)
Vehicle Warranty
Contrary to what you may have heard or read, in the USA, a K&N
Filtercharger will not void your vehicle warranty. The Magnuson-Moss
Warranty Act, passed in 1975, prohibits a manufacturer from conditioning
its warranty of a consumer product upon the consumer using any article or
service (other than one provided without charge under the warranty) which
is identified by brand, trade or corporate name, unless expressly
authorized by the Federal Trade Commission. If the manufacturer does not
provide air filters free of charge, they cannot void the vehicle's warranty
simply because you have installed an aftermarket air filter.
Summary
We offer thousands of stock replacement applications, hundreds of universal
clamp-on filters and dozens of Fuel Injection Performance Kits. Our goal is
to provide the highest quality component at a competitive price. A K&N
Filtercharger will be the last filter you will ever buy for your car,
truck, motorhome, motorcycle, ATV, boat or jet ski - Guaranteed.
Emission Warranties on New Vehicles
THE MYTH: A manufacturer's new-vehicle warranty is automatically voided
once an aftermarket part (non-original equipment) is installed.
THE TRUTH: Rarely does the use of aftermarket parts violate a new-vehicle
warranty.
THE RULES: Federal law, (the Clean Air Act), requires two emissions
warranties: a "defect" warranty and a "performance" warranty.
"Defect" warranties require the vehicle manufacturer to produce a vehicle
which, at time of sale, is free of defects that prevent it from meeting
required emissions levels for its useful life, as defined in the law.
"Performance" warranties require that vehicle manufacturer make repairs -
at no cost to the owner - should a vehicle fail to meet certain levels of
emissions performance during the warranty period. This period ranges from 2
years (or 24,000 miles) to 5 years (or 50,000 miles) for most parts, and up
to 8 years (or 80,000 miles) for certain emission-controlled parts,
specifically, the catalytic converter, the electronics emission-control
unit and the on-board diagnostic device (check owner's manual for specifics
on your vehicle).
Consumers are protected under a parts self-certification program
administered by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
If a parts maker self-certifies it's parts under this program, the vehicle
manufacturer cannot void the emissions warranty even if the certified part
fails and/or is directly responsible for the emissions warranty claim. In
this situation, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the
parts manufacturer, but the new vehicle warranty is not voided under the
law.
If a parts maker chooses not to self-certify it's parts, the only case
where a vehicle manufacturer can void the emissions warranty is if a
non-certified aftermarket part is proven to be responsible for an emissions
claim.
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06-06-2003, 08:32 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
So,
Is the bottom line...I am spending WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much money on K&N filters for my machine? I wasn't too impressed with the 1/2% increase in efficiency.
Any other brands you Gents recommend?
David
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06-06-2003, 08:36 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ,
Posts: 544
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Not Ranked
Well, depending on the vehicle, you might try these guys.
http://www.trueflow.com
__________________
"The single best reason for the invention of gasoline."
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06-07-2003, 09:33 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Senoia,
Ga.
Cobra Make, Engine: 427SO with big twin autolite inlines on custom intake, jag rear, top loader, wembeldon white, guardsmen blue stripes
Posts: 3,155
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Not Ranked
'Whatchawannabet' someone, sooner or later will re-introduce the old oil bath
system and claim it's the best, heck, it might be?.
__________________
Perry
Remember!, there's a huge difference between a 'parts' changer, and a mechanic.
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06-08-2003, 11:52 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: salisbury,
md
Cobra Make, Engine: Pilgrim Sumo
Posts: 79
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Not Ranked
The dealership I work in has had a few failures of maf sensors due to oil contamination from a oil charged filter. I cannot say one way or another whether that was overoiling or and inherent problem with that type of filter. Frank
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06-08-2003, 12:07 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
I've heard there is no effective way to clean the MAF sensor, but find that hard to believe.
This was in reference to the "heated wire mesh" style sensor. What happens if you spray it with say, carb cleaner for instance? Or HOW would you clean it?
I've heard "over time" tiny particles adhere to the mesh and limit it's potential for accurate readings. Their must be SOME way to clean it?
Ernie
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