Irresponsible behavior at the cruise.

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by Hotfingrs


[B#1....you're saying that getting into a car, without knowing the driver, was stupid of all the people that paid for a ride....I guess with all the wide open spaces in Texas, no one has ever gotten killed hitting a tree or other object at let's say 50 mph or 35 mph....just exactly where is that line where you can hit the tree and another person and not kill them or yourself....

re #2 you can hear all you want....you weren't driving, so you don't have a friggin clue what I was thinking.

re #3 at least you can sometimes recognize a personal attack, to bad you couldn't recognize it in the first post...someone wants to open a can of worms, I'll keep fishin til the last worms gone.... [/b]

#1- you're right. I am saying it was stupid of those people. Not a personal attack on you, just, under those circumstances, it was stupid. Just because a lot of people did it does mean it wasn't stupid.

#2- It doesn't matter what you were thinking. You had an accident. The damage was the same regardless of what you were thinking.

#3- I think the original post was probably sincere. He even waited a few days (well, two) to post it. I did not know who he was talking about, nor would I now, had you not identified yourself. You sound defensive. Perhaps you know it was wrong, too?

BTW- had somebody lost control and plowed through somebody's living room, while the London PD stood by doing nothing, the homeowner would have also collected big $$$ from the city of London, as well as the Cobra owner.

Not "my opinion" as I usually say. Fact. (On the last part, at least).

[casaleenie]

[i]

I've made hundreds upon hundreds of 1/4 runs at 130 plus in that car, I know exactly what the limits of the car are, how it handles, etc etc etc. I also raced SCCA for 13 yrs, so I'm also familiar with the concept of turning right and left....I would say my racing resume is better than most that were giving rides and probably not as good as others...

As far as Sunday goes....it was an accident, plain and simple. I run the 1/8th mile right at 6 seconds, I also put total concentration into driving the car, staying in the center, and watching the gauges.....just as I did on Saturday. I just plainly didn't see the cone, concentrating on the run, and by the time I realized that...I was out of runway.
...... [/b]

Jack,

Sounds like you probably had some of the best driving credentials in London on Saturday... and you can only speak for yourself... I'm betting that most of the guys giving rides don't have the experience that you do... I saw a lot of fumbling with the wheel and shifting immediately after launch... Performing before a crowd and a passenger can put a driver off if he's not used to the distractions.
Your last paragraph shows how an accident happens... "I just plainly didn't see the cone, concentrating on the run, and by the time I realized that... I was out of runway". Accidents happen...
You're a skilled driver and it happened to you... Where is your argument?????

I'm sure there will be a lot of soul searching by the London Police Dept. and the powers that be as to whether they will let this happen again in the downtown area... Just an educated guess...

al schafer

[Hotfingrs]

Al, you pretty much hit it right on...knowing my car the way I do, I felt completely comfortable with saturday vs someone that maybe was doing this for the first time, as evidenced by some of the launches and sideways that they got...clearly more car than driver capability....

By no means am I saying I'm right, and I'm not saying I'm wrong, or anyone else for that matter....like DV said, they never thought they would have cars that could hit those speeds...consider this part of the learning curve for next year.

[RACERAL]

I watched Jack all day on sat... and from the 1st. run.. I knew he knew what the heck he was doing.. he's a racer... Now I can't say that for many of the rest... Hell.. it wasn't but one or two that could even change gears...Hotfingers was not a problem...

[Jamo]

Same as last year--loudest "opiners" are the ones who were not there but who still feel it is their duty to speak out. As for those who were there--valid remarks and I haven't read anything to contest them.

I engaged in all of the venues...and then some. From giving a spirited ride to the NBC newscaster, to the autocross, the cruises and the events on Sunday, including the "drag" and autocross runs with the Sheriff's deputy. Here's my take...

Everything worked as advertised...IF DV's rules were followed. But I have some specific recommendations for next year.

--When Rolling Thunder and I started the burnouts last year, we pulled forward away from the crowd by at least 100 feet. I followed that same format for myself this year...despite some course workers trying to stop me from doing that. It was my duty to ignore their error, and I did. My first run went a bit sideways due to the crown in the road, and I shut it down immediately. I adjusted for that in subsequent runs, and basically did burnouts through first gear only. I also had the cops get the morons on the right side out of there--when Turk and I lined up for the SHORT side by side demo. As for running during the band playing, some of that was caused by the course workers not knowing/stopping it. DV Jr. tried and finally reached those of us who didn't know it was time to stop--should've had radios to tell the course workers in hindsight. Moronic statements implying that running while the band played was on purpose are....moronic.

--The Friday autocross course was obviously too short (cut down from the original layout due to the OSU parking nazis). In my humble opinion as an SCCA Solo II Safety Steward for the past 10 years and a course designer, it was too short, but it was designed to keep speeds down at the end. I wished some of the built design functions had been used at the airport. I only ran the Friday autocross a few times--once for the pure pleasure of making DV cry for his mommie , simply because it was too short and because I felt the street tires I was running (like most everyone else) were not up to the task from a safety standpoint.

--The airport layouts were fine. I would've designed in a quick couple of turns at the beginning of the autocross to prevent the burnouts going on, and probably a decreasing slalom to slow folks down before the sweepers--but generally speaking, it was just fine.

--The "drag" area should've simply been classified as a burnout area--way too short for anything else. I watched Jack's entire run--it was obvious before he passed the cones that he wasn't gonna slow down. I presummed it was a stuck throttle, but the fact is--if a problem at such high speeds was gonna happen--the venue was thankfully one that allowed for it. Thank God Jack was not hurt, and the hell with the car. But at least there was a place to run off into without danger to others.

--We should've been wearing helmets--including the riders--at the airports. I was wearing mine--I was the only one in the group around me, and I stupidly took mine off. I regret that. We were told to bring them--we should've used them.

--To me, the most dangerous situation was the caravan from the Speedway. Folks moving too quickly and then slamming on the brakes! I did not run the caravan the next day because of this. As with the other venues--if DV's rules would simply be followed, there would be no problem.

IMHO and FUIYDLI

[casaleenie]

And remember--Hindsight is 20/20

Thank God I'VE never made a mistake....

[PatBuckley]

My hindsight is always 50/50!

[BANDIT 1]

Some of you didn't know "how fast" a 2400 lb. Cobra with 500+ horsepower could go?

Sounds like you all need to hang out at the Honda Civic events and watch the "oversized" lawnmower powered cars hit 45mph at the end of the ride.

[Ikestaa]

My brothers, dad and I couldn't attend this year but we were there last year. I thought for sure that the burnouts wouldn't happen. Was I standing on the sidewalk? Yes, but anyone who saw me would have realized that my a$$ was on the opposite side of the street. Yes, it's fun to do a burnout and put on a show. But is it worth ruining an event that not only allows people to have a great time, but more importantlly supports a great cause. Burnouts...okay, but please, not in a city street with people crowded around.

[Double Venom]

Jamo,

Well said Sir. We tried to make improvements over last year, and I think we did. But every year something has changed and needs improving again. Trust me if IV becomes reality then their will be some more improvements made.

However, Frank was totally right about driving when the RipChords were playing. Poor Frank was in the wrong place at the wrong time when I went into my "Police Mode!" (Amazing how fast that can come back. )

DV Jr. - My son Randy for those that don't know and no, he is not a "Jr." A certain Cobra pulled out onto the "strip" just after it had ALL been shut down. At my orders Randy ran up to the car to tell him to hold off for a few minutes. I could tell by the look on Randy's face that the conversation was not going to well. I arrived just in time to see the guy slap the car in gear and start to raise the RPM. I then got his attention and I asked him to shut it down until the band was done. I got a, "YA RIGHT" from the driver and then a full throttle launch. He just about slid sideways into my leg as he fish-tailed down the road.

Have any of you been around when a Cop went into full mode, especially an old ornery one? Well, Frank did!

Needless to say, "you can run" but you can't hide. I did track down this individual and we had a slight heart to heart talk.

I'm sure he wont be doing that at the Fling again. Nice guy too! It just seems the Fling brings out the hormones in everyone.

DV -- A time and a place guys..a time and a place.

[Chaplin]

Where's Creeper?

[HighPlainsDrifter]

1st congrats on a great event, DV.

Like you say there is a time and place for full throttle runs, may I suggest that the cars that do this ,go through a TECH inspection 1st to see if they meet minimal safety standards;

-driveshaft safety loop
-scattershield
-wheels torqued to spec or knockoffs safety wired.
-tires inflated to spec.
-brakes that hold for 20 seconds without pedal going down
-no excess play in steering
-good seatsbelts,5 point preferred.
-snell helmet
-have a valid drivers licence

Every week there is a car that drops a driveshaft,breaks an axle, goes sideways. Most everybody walks away because of the safety rules.

You surely had "someone" watching over your group this year that no one got hurt. Racing events could be a little more structured.
my 2 cents from someone who was injured and now knows better.
Perry.

[Jamo]

BTW, there was one avoidable incident that should have been planned for--Turkish drivers!

When Brent got out of Turk's car, the Ottoman Taxi Driver took off looking for another fare--and promptly drove over Brent's foot.

The real injury was to our ribs from laughing so damn hard.

[CobraDan]

I have been to all three Spring Fling events and this was the best one of all, thanks DV for a great weekend. Hell, the fact that Ohio had three days in a row without Rain was a feat in it’s self, since most people told me it was the first weekend since the beginning of the year without Rain. Lots of the people launching their cars came out sideways and most shifting seemed was done by those that have never driven a stick shift before, or that’s the impression one got from watching the driving. Jacks car always came out as straight as an arrow and he never missed a shift with that automatic transmission. Actually we should not allow Cobras to run with CHEVY engines, they just run much too hard. The 1/8-mile drag strip course at the airport was about the same length as down town London, but without a shut off area other than the field. The small baby cones placed on the ground about mid way down the course telling the drivers it was time to let off were hardly visible. Later these cones were placed on hay bails bringing them three feet higher off the ground for better visibility. I know that people would not be coming from all corners of the earth to view a glorified Cobra car show.

Dan

[Stephen A. Thomas]

Speaking for those of us who are not "professional" racers and whose onlty opportunity to engage in friendly, spirited, easy-going action is at the SF, it's not realistic to expect us to "met' the standards put to the 'real' racers, ffrom a cost standpoint. I fully understand the safety side of the the thing, but, as I remeber, there were only two lowners helmets available at the airport. For those of us who only 'race' at the SF or want to try it before investing the cash, how do we do it if you impose all the safety rules?

If DV, et al had imposed the safety rules as stated above, the amount of cars/people who could have 'raced' would have been cut by 50 to 70%. I'm all for safety, both mine and the other guy, but if the weekend is for having fun and experiencing new 'adventures' with my car, how do we do it in the safest ways and allowing the most peole to participate without running up a "bill" for the average guy?

Stephen

[Hotfingrs]

Stephen, I understand what you are saying, but most of the safety rules are no cost, or minimal cost, and should always be a part of vehicle maintainence. Drive shaft loops are cheap, not needed if you're not racing, but still a nice extra to have. Scattershields aren't cheap, and again, unless you're turning high rpm's or racing, not needed. Helmets could be borrowed for the person that only wants to race at the fling, although they were scarce....the rest is normal vehicle inspection, something that you would fix anyway if not up to standards.....

[Stephen A. Thomas]

Thank-you for the reply. I for one, am slowly adding on 'safety' equipment - drive shaft hoop arrived today, but, if the SF is to continue and the 'racing' is to continue, those in charge will have to address the 'lack' of equipment on/owned by the 'average' Staurday 'racer. I would like to see an 'needed equipment minium' listed as soon as possible posted so we can have plenty of time to get our gear/car ready, and so we can decide if the cost is too much and opt to go to the SF with the idea of not 'racing'. Thank-you,

Stephen

[klayfish]

Jamo,
Perfectly put. I had a blast at the Fling, and those events were so much fun!! I can't pound my chest, because frankly my car in its' current condition does not have the ability to do burnouts down the entire drag strip . But I think if everyone followed the guidelines clearly laid out by DV and crew, the risks were extremely minimal. I took as many passengers as I could, especially on the Sunday autox. I always made sure to ask the passenger how much of the "experience" they wanted. I feel DV and crew went out of their way to make it as safe as it could possibly be, and it is up to us to do that. I for one thought it was a ton of fun.

Jack,
I'm glad you are OK. You didn't have those mugs rattling around in your trunk and cause a distraction, did ya?

Steve

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Stephen A. Thomas


Thank-you for the reply. I for one, am slowly adding on 'safety' equipment - drive shaft hoop arrived today, but, if the SF is to continue and the 'racing' is to continue, those in charge will have to address the 'lack' of equipment on/owned by the 'average' Staurday 'racer. I would like to see an 'needed equipment minium' listed as soon as possible posted so we can have plenty of time to get our gear/car ready, and so we can decide if the cost is too much and opt to go to the SF with the idea of not 'racing'. Thank-you,

Stephen

Stephen,,

I don't think that is anyones responsibility except yours... It's not that hard to come up with a minimum of safety equipment without someone telling you what it is... Helmet, four or five point harness...etc... I don't even know what equipment is required or necessary for racing but I guarantee I can find out in about thirty seconds... You've got a computer--- use it!!!!
Everyone is piling things onto the event..You're trying to make it someone elses responsibility to make you safe...If you're an "average Saturday racer" then you should have all this safety equipment already...
THANK-YOU

[CSX 4039]

Jamo- this thread (and the most opined entry) was by somebody who was there.
I almost got to come, and I would like to next year, and agree with Stephen that there are very few affordable avenues to let it all hang out, unless you can afford to rent a superspeedway for the day. (Who can do that?) I'm sure people get tired of shelling out to Six Flags, when they have a Cobra sitting in the parking lot.
I also think that if people want to risk injury to themselves, they have a right to do that, but the injury is usually not confined to just the thrill seeker. Often, some totally innocent bystander, who realizes to late that this is an unsafe area is involved. As a physician who rehabilitates trauma, I can speak with authority on this. That is why the airport, or Bonneville salt flats, for that matter is a better venue. I am not opposed to having fun, in fact I encourage it, (if for no other reason than I make a comfortable living off of people who were "just having fun" or, "just showing off a little bit"). But endangering others who have no death defying tendencies steps over the line and puts future DVSF in jeopardy. That would be too bad. Something like this is great, and hopefully a great tradition. Think of the Texas A&M Aggie Bonfire... a great tradtition that got trashed, and cost the University MILLIONS of $$$, and is not over yet.
DV's invitation is not a carte blanche.