Irresponsible behavior at the cruise.

[TurboVenom]

Ed, the only way to really keep it all under control is to flood the Cobra scene with those six cylinder powered Cobras - ya know, the ones that seem to linger at the shop - and keep the speed waaaay down, 'cause they're only li'l six cylinder cars...
Maybe next year there'll be a few there, givin rides to the general public.
Great time, keep it safe, if you want to show off, do it at the race track - where the traction gets real.
Oh and by the way, I was wondering, if I made friends with a Gashole, would I then be a Gashole Buddy?
-John Spina
http://www.casperselectronics.com/cobra.htm

[craigayl]

I’ve been watching this thread in amazement and with concern. It is full of coulda, shoulda, woulda’s along with assertions of irresponsibility? Wow.

As a group, I have never met people more caring, safety conscious, and yes fun loving.

While the Cobrakelly post outlines a lot of undisputable facts, I find the editorial just plain wrong! No one was intentionally “irresponsible” or worse “stupid”. And an assertion that 100mph is unsafe, yet dumping the clutch at 3000rpm is OK? Someone needs a course in engineering dynamics…

A few situations that were the result of maybe “riding on the edge”? did point to some areas where improvements can be made, but minor “tweaks” are in order. Not major surgery.

The fact is, this event was born and has grown by people who have a passion for fast powerful cars that also have such a love for others, that they combined their sport with CF for the advantage to all. The only way to eliminate all risk, from car mishaps is to stop all car events or impose so many rules that public rides will be no longer. But then, that’s only half of the formula… By doing so, what has happened to CF research?

This years fling was an OUTSTANDING event! Change little. Remember the objective to have fun and support CF. Risk is a part of life, live with it, work with it. Second guessing it is not healthy…

Craig SPF1265

[Turk]

TurboVenom,
Befriending a Gashole does nothing other than bring you closer to becoming one. Maybe a letter or two short of full Gasholedom.

TURK

[TurboVenom]

Hmm,
Then I could someday become entirely "Gasholiness" and could be congratulated for getting my "Gas-Hol-In-One" on the golf course, or, eh, road course. But then I'd need to run "Gas-O-Hol" to get there...
-John Spina
http://www.casperselectronics.com/cobra.htm

[Randall Thomas]

Originally posted by craigayl

Risk is a part of life, live with it, work with it. Second guessing it is not healthy…

Craig SPF1265 [/b]

Craig, I think what you meant by 'second guessing', is to "not complain about a succesful event after it has happened, then critique it for what *should* have been done later".

Yes, and I do agree with what you mean that "we can take what has been learned and apply it to future events."

Sure, a lot of bad things could have happened, but then again so could the cruise, the autocross, the parade, the party... heck, the Ripchords could have run a muck and killed us all with an ultra-high pitched feedback on their amps! lol. But you're right, safety needs to be emphasized where it counts the most, and where the most risk is. It takes a perfect world to predict all those risks, or experience of something already taken place. This is that experience being put to use.

I know that DV-Ed cares mostly about the welfare of his "family"... us, the participants. Far and above any money, donations or attendance records. He's just trying to do his best while providing you the most. Clearly the comprimises will begin. Then we'll hear people complianing about them being "too" safe! lol. Again, comprimises all around.

I suggest those interested and concerned to sign on and HELP DV in the area of safety... you know, a "put up or shut up" kinda deal. I'm SURE DV won't mind the help!!!! Eh Ed?

As for DV-III? No one got hurt ('cept for Brent's foot ;-) and a lot of fun was had, so the event was a total and undeniable success! And if what we learned from this year is applied to next year, then that event too will be a GAURANTEE success!

But remember, as time goes on, and as more and more events happen, and as more people attend, no matter what, something unfortunate very well may happen eventually.. And that *is* life.

/Randall Thomas
DV-I & DV-III particpant!

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by craigayl


I’ve been watching this thread in amazement and with concern. It is full of coulda, shoulda, woulda’s along with assertions of irresponsibility? Wow.


This years fling was an OUTSTANDING event! Change little. Remember the objective to have fun and support CF. Risk is a part of life, live with it, work with it. Second guessing it is not healthy…

Craig SPF1265

Craig,

Take all the risks you want but don't involve innocent people in your risk taking... "Second guessing it is not healthy", not sure what that means but learning from mistakes IS healthy...
Launch a car at 110 mph and hit a curb and put in on a residential porch with a family sitting just watching the event.
The people who organized this event would be finished for life...
Litigation would be forever... The attorneys would make the money and not CF...
The only driving "credentials" I have was the ability to afford the car... I'm sure that there are a lot of Cobra owners in the same boat.. No way could I push that car to the limit and expect a positive outcome... Part of being responsible is to identify a problem and fix it... Possibly not major changes in the events but rather to tone them down a bit...
the usual .04 cents worth...

[craigayl]

casaleenie

“second guessing” would include your own prophecy.

“Launch a car at 110 mph and hit a curb and put in on a residential porch with a family sitting just watching the event.”

What’s that? Nothing like that happened. Using that logic, I’d like to know where you would propose to draw the line?

My post was not to add more controversy to an already volatile topic, but rather to attempt to put this back into a more realistic perspective. ALL car driving participants, in my opinion, were responsible, intelligent, fun loving people. A few came close to finding the bleeding edge of high performance and a few of the viewing public got a little too close in their excitement. Through these experiences, improvements can be made. But, the few incidents that did occur were not the catastrophe some may speculate on or “second guess” because of the responsible people involved. OK, lucky too, but then wasn’t it lucky that……..never mind…nuff said….

Craig SPF1265

[Randall Thomas]

While I thought the event was GREAT as it was, if someone were to ask me how I think it could be made better and safer at the same time, I would suggest the following...

1. CRUISE: This type of venue will only be as safe as the people in it. Sometimes with all the action going on, they forget there's 100 cars in front of them, and even more behond them. Maybe a more detailed laid out written plan given to participants AT the crusie of HOW a safe cruise is done could be helpful, such as car spacing, speeds, NOT stopping for the cameras along the way to do burnouts (lol).

2. LONDON DRAGS: The London street wars was something else. Speeds over 40-60 are going to be potentially unsafe down main street no matter what the circumstances. If this is to continue (and I think it could) I suggest having the cars idle about 100 feet away from the crowd to a "burnout box" with water and the works. Then a preset length of cones to do that burnout in... maybe within 100 feet (?). After that, a predetermined "crusie" route around the city for the passenger to "enjoy" the rest of the experience that we enjoy so much in these cars, as well as a predicatble parade route for residents to enjoy cars passing by at normal street speeds.

3. AIRPORT SLALOM: The Airport slalom course really could not pose much of a problem since average speeds could hardly get above 30 or 40 with nothing but grass and cones to impact.

4. AIRPORT DRAGS: The Airport drag area is just not ever going to be safe with that short of a run off, as well as hard to see with the depth perception restrictions of a flat airstip staring you in the face. Maybe instead of an all out speed assault, turn it into a 0-60-0 accelerate and brake venue. Speeds would be kept down and the adrenaline pumped up... after all, the 0-100-0 is what made this car famous... but stopping at higher speeds can be more dangerous than accelerating to them, so the braking cones would have to be positioned to prevent this and keep speeds down to under 60.

Now, once again these "suggestions" are not meant to be "shoulda-beens", but rather "could-be's". It would safen up the events without reducing the thrill. It would be better for everyone all the way around, I think. If anything, it's just a start of the ideas to make a fair comprimise across the board, rather than an extreme move to one side or another.

/Randall Thomas

[xlr8or]

Although the speeds in London drag area were quite high at times the worst thing I saw was the idiot that decided it would be fun to do a few 360's.

360's on a city street lined with people. Hello!! McFly!!
At one point the back end of the car was swinging around at less than 10 feet from the spectators.

I think the only coulda woulda shoulda for next year is to just keep the displays of power and speed on the track.

Still it was overall a great event and I am glad I attended.

[Randall Thomas]

Originally posted by xlr8or

Although the speeds in London drag area were quite high at times the worst thing I saw was the idiot that decided it would be fun to do a few 360's.

At one point the back end of the car was swinging around at less than 10 feet from the spectators.

I looked back at my video, and the car was far from being "10 feet" from anyone, and moving relatively slowly at that. While that effort would not have been my first choice, I was at the line when he left and it appeared he did this last year,a nd that it was a "pre-determined" action that appeared to be acknowledged by the staging staff by this one person. Maybe if that were well known, it would have appeared in a better light in that respect.

However, the "car" coming down the street while he was donutting around was a bit of an "eye openener", yet the car kept on coming! lol. I still can't figure that one out. Must of had to get through in a hurry I guess... maybe they were running out of strawberries!

Something to tuck away in the data bank to apply to next year's event, or to ANYONE'S event for that matter. This is a learning process for everyone, indeed.

/Randall

[craigayl]

As in all spirited debates, good ideas do have their way of coming out.

0 to 60 and 0 again in a timed run would be fun! Just a little more complicated because you now need lights and timing devices. It could even be easier than a mandatory 60. Just set up to go from a start line dead stop to a finish line dead stop in the shortest time. Space the lines close enough that more than 60 could not be achieved.

Not sure about a burn out box with water though. My experience at the drag strip is it’s harder to control these cars in a burn out box than on dry pavement.

Craig SPF1265

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by craigayl

What’s that? Nothing like that happened. Using that logic, I’d like to know where you would propose to draw the line?

My post was not to add more controversy to an already volatile topic, but rather to attempt to put this back into a more realistic perspective. ALL car driving participants, in my opinion, were responsible, intelligent, fun loving people. A few came close to finding the bleeding edge of high performance and a few of the viewing public got a little too close in their excitement. Through these experiences, improvements can be made. But, the few incidents that did occur were not the catastrophe some may speculate on or “second guess” because of the responsible people involved. OK, lucky too, but then wasn’t it lucky that……..never mind…nuff said….

Craig SPF1265 [/b]

Craig,,

"Bleeding edge", "too close in their excitement","OK, lucky too","All driving participants,IMO, were responsible, intelligent, fun loving people". How in the hell would you know???

I don't think "realistic perspective" is relative to your posting...

[REAL 1]

I don't believe laws are suspended during the fling. Statutory or common law. Certainly not traffic laws.

A ride in a Cobra should be a legal ride within the limits of the law unless its on a race track.

If the $hit its the fan during one of these 100mph+ rides on public streets the consequences would be disasterous for those directly involved, for the event and for the hobby.

Any analysis to justify burnouts and 100 mph+ rides to the public is dumb.

Even to have such an event on a race track raises serious safety and liability issues.

A Cobra ride should be just that. A legal ride within the limits of the law.

[Excaliber]

I like that 0-60-0 thing! That would be a great test of skill.

I don't like the "legal speed limit" on the City Streets idea (boring), but something less than 100 would be appropriate!

Ernie

[Edley Rondinone]

I, personally, would rather have someone doing "relatively stationary" donuts in the middle of the street than drive at 100+ MPH down an albeit wide residential street. But I WAS there in London that afternoon! The "drag racing" runs WERE exciting. They WERE "potentially" dangerous! They WERE fun to watch, and probably more fun to actually participate in! Next, year, if the "Drag Starts" are to be continued, MAYBE make them 100 FEET long at the most! That keeps speed down, and cars are far less likely to jump a curb and wipe out a living room, and maybe someone watching soap operas!

[Edley Rondinone]

Besides, dont we all remember our mother, or someone elses mother saying, "It's always fun until someone loses an eye!"

[BO DUTCH]

Just thinking.......

Why do these people donate money just to ride in a Cobra ?
Right ! They want the "Pooh" scared out of them. The excitement of being on the edge !! Doing something that they normally can't or wouldn't do. Gezz, you Cobra drivers live this dream everytime you take your cars out !! Living on the edge, driving around in a Cobra coffen, always looking out for the dumb $hit who might pile into you.

Now, what would happen if next year there were 3 different venues for rides, same settings (maybe different streets) maybe sliding scales for donations etc. One set of cars for Safe & Sane rides, posted speed limits only ! #2 Wild ! No burn outs, 65-70 max. speed and #3 INSANE, 100 mph, burn outs required !!

The parents of children would be responcible to select the proper venue.

Of the three, which would have the longest waiting lines ?
Right again Sherlock !!

BUT, Maybe DV would have gotten that extra 5 grand to put the total over the top, if, there again IF, some of the rides were of the Safe & Sane or Wild variety.

Not all drivers want to do burn-outs, but would like to participate in the fund raising, this would be your chanse !!

DV, If this has any interest, E-Mail me, I've got some ideas on efficient lay-outs.

Bo

[CowtownCobra]

Bo,

I like it

[G.R.]

CowtownCobraDave

How dare you compare us benevolent Gasholes as Animals--

We are highly unrefined gentlemen of the first order

unrefined yes--Animals never--hmmpf, so there ol' horned one

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by BO DUTCH


Just thinking.......
Now, what would happen if next year there were 3 different venues for rides, same settings (maybe different streets) maybe sliding scales for donations etc. One set of cars for Safe & Sane rides, posted speed limits only ! #2 Wild ! No burn outs, 65-70 max. speed and #3 INSANE, 100 mph, burn outs required !!

The parents of children would be responcible to select the proper venue.

Of the three, which would have the longest waiting lines ?
Right again Sherlock !!

BUT, Maybe DV would have gotten that extra 5 grand to put the total over the top, if, there again IF, some of the rides were of the Safe & Sane or Wild variety.

Not all drivers want to do burn-outs, but would like to participate in the fund raising, this would be your chanse !!

DV, If this has any interest, E-Mail me, I've got some ideas on efficient lay-outs.

Bo

Hey, I'll bet there are at least ten streets in that town...Let's have ten different courses...
$100. for level #1
$200. for level #2
and so on....until we get to insane..(wild)
Hey, how bout' we do an intersection.. I'm sure the crowd would pay for a few high speed wrecks... start four cars all at once toward the intersection.. No end to the possibilities here...
Sure, it's a risk, but hell life is one big risk anyway...