Octane Booster

[David Borden]

this is on a 100 HP motor. Thats 3 percent.

Im not interested in debating it. Just posting some useful information regarding octane and the results a friend and a well respected racer and builder got.

David

[mrmustang]

EYE ON THE INDUSTRY
01-01-01
By Darrell Sitarz

"REASONS BEHIND THE ANSWERS
Last month in The Racer’s Edge column we presented a quiz on Racing Fuels. The answers to the questions were all “False”, and a number of readers asked that we provide explanations. The author, H. David Redszus of Precision Automotive Research, Bensenville, Illinois provides detailed answers to the questions.

1. A racing fuel makes more power because it has higher octane?
FALSE: A racing fuel does not make more power merely because it has a higher octane number. Higher octane does not allow the engine builder to make mechanical modifications which produce more power without engine destruction. A racing fuel with a higher octane number than another, but with no other changes in the fuel, would make the same power.

2. Too much octane could be bad for an engine?
FALSE: Too much octane alone can never hurt an engine, but could be bad for your checkbook and racing budget. Other changes in fuel composition not related to octane can, however, have either a beneficial or detrimental effect on your engine.

3. All racing fuels are the same if they have the same octane?
FALSE: The octane number is only one of about a dozen important characteristics of a good racing fuel. Other important considerations are: cooling effects, ignitability, flame speed, carbon/hydrogen ratio, evaporation rate, deposits, consistency and many more.

4. Low performance stock engines rarely benefit from using racing fuel?
FALSE: When properly matched to the needs of a specific engine, a quality racing fuel can eliminate misfires and malfires, improve cleanliness, improve throttle response, increase volumetric efficiency and avoid torque curve flat spots.

5. Race fuel should be always stored in a tightly sealed red plastic container designed for the purpose?
FALSE: Red (or any other color) plastic containers are only good for lawn mower fuel. They may be used to mix oil/fuel and to transfer fuel providing the fuel does not remain in the plastic container for more than a few (one maybe?) hours. Plastic containers, which permit the passage of ultraviolet rays (sunlight), can destroy the octane value of leaded fuel in as little as 20 minutes. All plastic containers except Teflon and Nylon allow the migration of light fuel infractions right through the porous plastic container walls. Always store your race fuel in steel cans away from heat and light.

6. Race fuels may be safely purchased in bulk provided it comes from underground tanks?
FALSE: Large 500-2500 gallon underground storage tanks permit the exposure of race fuel to air in the tank space as the tank is emptied. This allows the evaporation losses of fuel light ends which are essential components of a superior race fuel. Tanks must be vented to the air which exposes the fuel to moisture which condenses and sinks to the bottom. The water-to-fuel interface is a perfect area for black slime microbial growth which feed on hydrocarbons. When a large tank is freshly filled, the bottom residing contaminants are agitated and may end up in your engine. Always filter race fuel using a very fine filter (25 microns) and use a fresh, clean fuel filter (10 microns) on your engine.

7. Nitrous oxide makes about 30% more power than gasoline?
FALSE: Nitrous oxide is an oxygenate, not a fuel, and does not make power. It adds substantial oxygen to the combustion process which must be balanced by an increase in fuel volume to avoid an excessively lean condition (and engine destruction) and to obtain a performance increase. When using nitrous oxide always use the highest available octane and run on the slightly rich side to be safe. Spark plugs should be replaced with much colder plugs to avoid pre-ignition. Nitrous oxide and low quality race fuel have eaten many, many race engines and racers have paid dearly.

8. Racing fuel is toxic and dangerous to handle?
FALSE, sort of: Actually, this is a badly worded question for which I apologize. I meant to say, “…as compared to ordinary pump gas…”. Premium quality racing gas is actually more pure and less harmful than ordinary pump gas. But, ALL gasolines are toxic by their very nature and should be handled with care and plenty of respect. Transfer fuel only in a well ventilated area and do not breathe the fumes. Keep away from children and pets. Store in a tightly sealed steel container in a cool, well-ventilated space. Never permit smoking anywhere near a refueling operation since race fuels are quite volatile and vapors can be easily ignited. Don’t wash your hands or parts in gasoline. Do wash your hands every time you handle fuel.

9. Racing fuel contains more energy than pump gas?
FALSE: All hydrocarbon-based gasolines contain about the same amount of energy: approximately 19,800 BTUs per pound of fuel, or over 120,000 BTUs per gallon. Fuel is metered by volume but combustion processes are governed by the weight of the reactants. When fuel is adjusted for stoichoimetery and specific gravity, all gasolines contain about the same energy. The energy variance between fuel is usually less than 1%.

10. Racing fuel has along shelf life and should be purchased in economical bulk sizes?
FALSE: Premium racing fuel is very much like fine win. If it is improperly transported or stored, it can deteriorate very quickly and like a skunked wine, leave a bad taste in your mouth. Never purchase in larger quantities than you can quickly use, no matter how tempting the economies may appear. If bulk fuel purchases can be quickly used or shared among competitor, then a bulk purchase makes sense. A fresh, unopened steel can may be safely stored (at cool temperatures) for up to six months. Once opened, the shelf life deteriorates rapidly. Use it up within two weeks. Preserving the freshness of a race fuel is difficult even for refineries, let alone racers.

11. Exhaust gas temperatures are a good way to evaluate and select a racing fuel?
FALSE: Exhaust gas temperatures are a very inaccurate way to determine fuel quality unless several operating variables are understood and controlled. Generally, the higher the exhaust temperature produced, the better. But higher exhaust temperatures could also be the result of improper mixture, fuel preparation or ignition timing adjustments. More horsepower and higher RPMs always result in higher exhaust temperatures. But this can lead to engine overheating unless thermal dissipation provisions have been made for higher performance. There is simply no substitute for the correct matching of fuel type to engine requirements, proper fuel and ignition tuning and careful measurement of the shape of the torque curve on an engine dynamometer.

12. A high-octane race gas burns slowly to prevent engine destructive detonation?
FALSE: Most destructive detonation has its origins in improper chamber design, inadequate chamber cooling or improper ignition timing. Gasoline flame speed is much more dependent on squish velocity and combustion turbulence than on octane characteristics. Higher octane does, however, raise the auto-ignition temperature at which detonation begins.

13. A direct, back to back comparison test of various fuel brands is the best way to select a racing fuel?
FALSE: When different fuels are compared to evaluate performance, the ignition, air/fuel ratio and mixture preparation must be optimized for each fuel before comparison can be made. Simple back to back test without optimized tuning is easy to do but completely wrong.

14. Leaded racing gas makes more power than unleaded racing gas?
FALSE: Leaded racing gas makes the same power as unleaded racing gas if all other things are equal (i.e. octane, specific gravity, stoichoimetry, distillation curve, fuel composition, etc.). Unfortunately, all other things are almost never equal. Racing fuel, unlike pump gas, is sold with detailed product specifications. Understanding fuel specifications and their proper application will put you a lap ahead of the filed.

15. You can tell how strong a race gas is by the way it smells?
FALSE: The characteristic “gasoline” small is caused by contaminants in the fuel such as phosphorus and sulfur compounds. In addition, modern race fuels use non-traditional components such as oxygenates which have a distinctly different odor. Lastly, refineries will sometimes add an odorant (or colorant) to a fuel to aid in its quick and easy identification. Unless a fuel contains a specific compound which can be properly identified by its color, the smell of gasoline only tells you that your nose is working."

Answers courtesy of Phillips 66 Racing Fuels.

[Great Asp]

Fixit is once again exactly correct.

Octane booster, or racing gas, does not "improve performance" really. Octane increases will help to, or eliminate detonation.

Now that may allow you to increase timing (or maybe not) in order to increase HP. However, just tossing race gas in your tank, while it smells good, will not instantly increase HP. If the motor would take more timing, and said increase in timing would give you improved results, then yes. But normally, if you have 10:5 comp, you are only preventing detonation when the motor is already at its best timing.

So do not waste money putting two cans in, when one will work. Also, if your car runs good on 93 octane, do not blow good beer money on race gas.

Mr Mustang is also very correct, but I fell asleep reading his post

Eric

[RACERAL]

We build great ffr's and we build bad ffr's.. and so does everybody else..

This is no bull****.. everytime I go to a cobra event and there are spf's and mine in a group.. a person will always come up and want to talk about them.. I show them mine and tell them how much I have in it.. then I explain how great the spf are and they just don't understand the difference..
I tell them about the 500 hp vs. the 250 hp motor.. they always say.. who need 500 hp... I tell them about the 4-6 thousand irs..they say who cares... I tell them about the big brakes vs. my mustang brakes.... they say.. who cares...
I swear this is the truth..
I guess if you have a unlimited budget.. hell fire... spend it... that what keeps the world going round and round


I made 14 runs with my bike some years ago..7 with pump and 7 with union 76 racing gas (nascar stuff).. 2 tenths average quicker et with the union 76....

[Bart Carter]

If your car is tuned for 91 octane and you put in 100 octane, you will see no difference in performance. If you tune it to take advantage of the 100 octane, you will.

The only exception to this is when you have a computer that will "learn" the conditions that you run your car under. It compensates for "bad" gas and "good" gas. An example would be an BMW M5. Another example is a knock sensor setup.

[Bart Carter]

There is a simular thread going on another site. It produced a good page addressing blending a high octane fuel:

Fuel Blending

Several articles on the page.

[Wes Tausend]

I think I once read that using too high of octane actually is slightly harmful to the engine but I can't find the info offhand.

The reasoning was that too high of octane burns too slow in engines during moderate compression and doesn't reach maximum peak cylinder pressure. This would also cause some burning to continue after the exhaust valve was open. I suppose this can be seen under varying conditions that slow the burn in any engine with very short or no exhaust outlets (not normal).

Part of what I read stated that fuel economy could suffer because of the loss in efficiency. At the time, I even asked my wife to quit putting higher octane in her low compression daily driver since I felt it was a waste. She felt she was "treating"her car but it may have actually been slightly detrimental. I do know that I would rather err on the side of too much octane in the case of possible detonation.

[Jason Lee Nye]

Captain said, “There are differences in all Cobras and the price reflects what you get.”

I have a hard time believing this is coming from an intelligent adult? We all have our reasons for spending a certain amount. Back in the day when there was less, the replicas could pull bigger numbers on a return. Who was the competition and how did the performance and quality compare? These days there are tons more Cobras on the road, more competition and the old arguments of past do not hold up. The numbers speak for themselves on the track, whether Captain wants to believe it or not. With the performance numbers out of the way because after all it is a matter of more money = horsepower and handling and it is a useless pi$4ing contest to engage in. As for resale, hands down on the average the Superformances fetch more, however what percentage of a hit does an owner take when they decide to resale? The real question is on average how much does do the cars lose value on a resale? I recently sold my Factory 5 Roadster and actually got a few dollars more than I paid for it after 2 years of enjoying it. I didn’t build it and I knew I wanted to build one so I bought a Spec Racer, I will let you know how it is when I finish it. Which this now leads me to the last point, rather than price reflecting what you get, the REALITY is the value and performance is reflected by the quality of the build.

Superformance are quality built pretty much ready to go rollers. We all have our own reasons to build or buy ready to drive Cobras. We have different reasons on the amount we choose to spend. The finished product is what we are judged with. At car shows people drool same over whether it was a Superformance, Shell Valley, Factory 5 ect..

While you wish to judge fellow Cobra (fakey dos) by our wallets, some of us judge each other by the quality of our finished product. They are all fakes for @*%’s sake and it is quite comical to watch someone tear down another fake to raise another fake above it.

And to tie this into the original thread, you don’t always get what you pay for regarding the octane boost. Is it really worth it to pour this stuff down the tank or should I say drain?

p.s. this Captain fellow has a certain arrogance that reminds me of a certain person who was of the meat flavor? Perhaps it it’s the way he antagonizes, I don’t know? Clearly the Captain is emotional, but the arrogance is so high he doesn’t even realize it. The arrogance can get to a point that they no longer realize that their emotion turns to a “matter of fact” in their mind. Quite funny to watch.

[Nantucket427]

Five pages of cobra talk and still no definitive answer on the Octane Booster.

[PSB]

Originally posted by Jason Lee Nye

p.s. this Captain fellow has a certain arrogance that reminds me of a certain person who was of the meat flavor?

Jason,

Meat owns a FFR (well sort of, he owns the remains of a fire damaged one), not a SPF. I would venture to guess that Meat also understands what a ladder frame is.


Pete

[Mr.Fixit]

Originally posted by Nantucket427


Five pages of cobra talk and still no definitive answer on the Octane Booster.

Octane booster that you buy at a parts store in a quart can is a waste of money. If you need more octane rating, buy race gas and mix. There is just not enough volume of anything in a quart can to raise the octane. Some folks will dump a gallon of toluene in the tank, that will raise the number, but I'd rather buy the race gas for mixing.

[tdsmith]

I don't buy allot of chemicals... where do you buy toluene? I know of one gas station in my town that sells race gas, but chemical... that's another story.

[JAM1775]

I also think the answer is keep a 5 gal can of race gas and mix it
in at home or buy it a your local station that sells both. That way you have a consistent high quality fuel that your motor seems to require.
I guess having a few bottles of Outlaw in the trunk is a good idea in case of an emergency. Although most feel the shelf products do not work there has to be times you will be out on the road and can only drop the 93 Mobil in there. I am running 11:1 aluminum heads and I get pump gas at so many places I lost count. I have never had a problem with the 93. I always keep a few bottles of booster just in case I get some bad gas . But as I stated earlier for some dopey reason I find myself pouring one bottle in as I fill the tank. Go figure.

[Jason Lee Nye]

Originally posted by PSB


Jason,

Meat owns a FFR (well sort of, he owns the remains of a fire damaged one), not a SPF. I would venture to guess that Meat also understands what a ladder frame is.


Pete

While I think Meat is more intelligent than the Captain guy, it just seems they share certain qualities pertaining to “people skills”

If person cannot effectively and tactfully communicate his ideas or opinions, then how can anybody take them seriously? I could be a genius but if I am an @sshole who is going to listen to me? If he doesn’t care what people think of him then why should he bother opening his trap?

As it stands right now, he offers an opinion with nothing to substantiate it. He throws a couple of shallow points to back it up, which turns out to be quite untrue. He has a beef or lack of respect for a Factory 5 or Factory 5 owners. He has issues with certain classes of Cobra fakes, which is quite funny when you get right down to it. A fake is a fake, some cost more and some cost less…who cares? Now I could see Real 1 taking offense to being compared to a fake but this guy Captain and Superformances…….PLEASE! I think Captain Kirk needs to look into the mirror and tell himself over and over, I need to be more humble, I need to be more humble and less arrogant.

As for this topic and the question regarding octane booster, The gist of it seems to point to the regular crap you buy in the store is about as effective as Snake Oil.

[mrmustang]

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts56.html

Originally posted by Nantucket427


Five pages of cobra talk and still no definitive answer on the Octane Booster.

[Great Asp]

Fixit,

Have you tried Klotz yet? I am telling you, it works!

Eric

PS I agree, the stuff at Auto Zone is not very effective

[Jason Lee Nye]

I always thought nitrous was an octain booster? Gave a he!! of a boost

[427 S/O]

TD, check the yellow pages under, chemical wholesale or distributor.

[Bart Carter]

How to Build Horsepower, Vol. 2 by David Vizard
For the most part, the biggest gain in horsepower from a race gas comes from the ability to utilize compression rations of 11:1 to as high as 17:1.

Vizard as done a lot of research on fuel blends. Some of the other interesting things he found about different brands:

1. Different brands with the same octane produced different power.
2. Temperature has a great effect on power and different brands are affected AT DIFFERENT RATES. Obviously, the cooler you can keep the intake, the more power you make.
3. When blending fuels, some brands may raise the Research Octane Number significantly, but barely change the Motor Octane Number at all. The R + M/2 value increases, but the Motor Octane Number, which is the level at which most street vehicles run, changes hardly at all. So the fuel's resistance to detonation in service on the road improves little.
4. When blending fuels, a change in specific gravity will require changes in jetting to compensate.

[Wayne Maybury]

This topic was discussed in quite a bit of detail a year or so ago. Do a search on toluol or toluene (both words mean the same thing). At that time, I contacted a petroleum engineer who was also a high performance car buff and inquired about the composition of gasoline. If I remember correctly, toluene was one of the major components in gas so any remarks about toluene being very dangerous are nonsense except for the fact that it is highly flammable and somewhat toxic, just like gasoline.

That thread didn't seem to go off topic, certainly not as much as this one did.

Wayne