Advice for a new "pin drive" wheel owner???

[leadfoot]

I am about to receive my first pin drive wheels and I am somewhat apprehensive. I have heard loud and clear to use safety wire and a lead hammer. I would like to ask if anyone could add other helpful hints you have learned along the way...

Such as??
- Should the tires be off the ground , partially on jack, or on the ground when putting the wheel on?
- Do the knock-off sockets work to aid removal and tightening?
- Should I always travel with a knock off spare?
- Where to drill the knock-off
- How much slack in the wire
- Do you check wheels before each ride?
- Am I overly neurotic?

[Jim Holden]

Lead:

Spin the spinner on by hand, lower the car onto the ground and give it a whack or two.

(Of course right is left and left is right when tightening, the theory being that the action of the wheel going forward will tend to tighten the spinner),

Then fasten safety wire to the spoke of the wheel that depending on the side of the car will cause the wire to tighten should the spinner begin to loosen.

I drill all three ears of the spinner so that when the spinner is tightened you can pick the ear that has the best spacing to a spoke of the wheel.

...and of course you will use a safety wire pliers to make the connection.

Drive for a while and check the spinners. (A test whack or two)

Also always use antiseize. You haven't lived until you've tried to get a galled alumnium spinner off a steel hub.

Happy trails!

Jim

PS: ...and as to being slightly neurotic: At the GT40 reunion at Watkins Glen in 1989, Fran "t-shirt" Kress had a rear spinner come off his original GT40 "at speed". The spinner flew off and hit the car and then as he spun, he watched one of his rear tires pass him. Fortunately, other than the "ding" in the chassis from the spinner, no major damage was done (although, reportedly, Franny had to visit the men's room for a change of underwear).

[PatBuckley]

I recommennd some fairly substantial whacks with the wheel off the ground. As many as it takes until you see that the spinner is not moving any more.

Do not drill the wheel spke - run the safety wire around the spoke.

Use .041" safety wire - not that skinny ****.

Pat

[leadfoot]

Jim.. Where did you drill the holes in the knock-off ?? Closer to the tip or hub?

[computerworks]

A while back, Steve (X-CSX4027) posted this info on the spinner tool and spinner care:

"The spinner (tool) from FinishLine is a top-grade piece of equipment. It is a bit pricey and somewhat heavy to carry around (especially if you also carry around the one-inch diameter steel bar necessary to use the tool), but it works. I have one and it's about the only thing I've found which will loosen the spinners when they get tight without damaging the aluminum spinners. My garage floor is epoxy-painted and I tried to loosen one of the front spinners with the car still sitting on the ground; it just spun the wheel. I had to get the wife to hold the brakes and then it finally broke loose using the Finishline tool. This all happened because I had neglected to regularly remove and re-lubricate the spindle threads and the mating surface between the spinner and wheel with anti-seize compound like I was told. You should lubricate the threads and mating surface at lease once a year; every six months would be better.

I'm about to say something which will undoubtedly get me flamed (again), but here goes: you don't need to beat the spinners on. The wheel is prevented from rotating on the spindle by the PINS, not the friction force developed by the compression of the wheel against the spindle. The pins take the drive or brake torque from the wheels; the spinner only holds the wheel in place so the wheel properly engages the pins. I tighten mine up a reasonable amount and then safety-wire the spinners just in case they do loosen up. (And they DO loosen up sometimes; that's why they're illegal for racing nowadays.) Leave a little slack in the safety wire so you can tell at a glance if a spinner has loosened; you'll be able to tell because the safety wire looks tight. I've been driving my car for several years and have never had one loosen. This process, along with regular lubrication of the threads/mating surface, will allow you to get the spinners off with a lead or dead-blow hammer in case of emergency."
(CSX4027)

Also, here is a close-up of the preferred safety wiring from the Kirkham website:

[Jim Holden]

Lead:

...and a picture is worth a thousand words.

The hole is drilled in the "dimple" toward the end of the ear. While some folks only drill one ear, I do all three.

And do not drill through the spoke on the wheel but go around it.

Computer is quite correct that the "pins" do the work. I did not mean to suggest that you need to "beat on" the spinners. Only "whack" enough to snug things up. You don't want things moving on the pins.

Jim

[leadfoot]

Thanks...

computerworks... It the finishline tool a replacement for a lead hammer or are both recomended??

[computerworks]

Originally posted by leadfoot


computerworks... It the finishline tool a replacement for a lead hammer or are both recomended??

The Finishline tool...




...has been described as an alternative, and useful in removing "stuck" spinners that don't budge under the hammer.

I don't have one; I use the heavy lead hammer.

[SSSnake]

We have the PSE FIA style wheels and stainless steel spinners, and they have yet to ever move without safety wire. We just put a dot on the wheel and the spinner to check for movement. After 1200 miles, the spinners have never moved.

Glenn

[David Kirkham]

Boy am I glad someone started this thread.

PLEASE DO NOT BANG ON WHEELS THAT ARE UP IN THE AIR!

If the wheel is up in the air, you are essentially banging on the bearings...and they do NOT like it.

We always firmly TAP the wing nut until it seats on the wheel with the wheel up in the air to make sure it seats. Make sure the wing nut is seated to the wheel and the wheel is seated to the hub. We then lower the car with the wheels on the ground and whack it good. As Ron said, you don't need to get "Gorilla" with the hammer here. We have never lost a wing nut and I don't beat them on hard enough to even mark the wing nut. We even use a BIG nylon hammer without any problems. We have never even used a lead hammer. Original owners may squirm, but I am confident in the fact we have driven many THOUSANDS of miles with no problems.

To take the wheel off...MAKE SURE the wheel is on the ground when you bang on it to loosen the nut. Just think about those poor bearings and you will understand why we leave the wheel on the ground.

Safety wire.

I have to admit, I will only very hesitatingly drive a car that has not been safety wired. I refuse to drive one without safety wire unless I have personally checked the nuts. I refuse to ride in one that I have not personally checked--period, no exceptions. If I ever do, (rarely), drive home without safety wire, I usually can't even make it home without becomming paranoid. I even used a claw hammer once when I got home because I was so nervous the nuts were going to fall off. However, once they are safety wired, I drive forever and forget about them.

Note:

Please bend ALL safety wire ends over to show you care and to prevent safety wire sized holes in your hands. Besides, it looks cool...please see above photo. (Yes, Ron has permission to use it.)

Antisieze,

If you don't use antisieze, you will experience the following:

Best case: You will ruin the rim and the knock off with galling. It is highly unlikely you will stop at best case.

Worst, and most probable, case; You will sieze the nut onto the hub and you will experience all sorts of new words in your vocabulary as you CUT THE WHEEL, WING NUT, AND HUB apart to disassemble the whole mess. You will be left with mess on the floor and a big hole in your wallet to fix the mess. You MUST anitsieze the threads AND the face of the knock off where it contacts the wheel face. We even antisieze the drive pins a little.

David

[SCOBRAC]

I don't use safety wire. I think it gives you a false sense of security. David is right. Beating the wheel on will cause excessive wear on the nut / wheel face. Check the nuts every couple or few hundred miles. DO NOT LETOTHER PEOPLE "HELP" YOU PUT YOUR WHEELS ON. The left hand side of the car will have left handed threads, the right side will have right sided threads. both sides tighten by hitting the nut toward the rear.

[SCOBRAC]

Oh... I don't have a roll bar either. I say this smiling as David is cringing. What can I say. I'm an optimist.

[PatBuckley]

David -

Care to explain exactly how the bearings are affected by hitting the spinner with the wheels in the air?

I would be more concerned about the u-joints.

Pat

[Ant]

Using knock on pin drives, I have never had one come loose, always put either graphite powder or anti seize compound on the threads, clean the visible thread before removal of knock off. I use a copper/rawhide Thor Hammer, and find even the rawhide did a reasonable job!

Nylon hammers that is a good idea I would go for that, and I have never wired a spinner on!

Computerworks:
In NZ they are not illegal for racing, and I cannot understand why they are over in the US, there is in "most" forms of motorsport single nuts that hold wheels on race cars - I find it hard to believe that GT40's and original Cobras are not allowed to race because of pin drives, or Aussie supercars, Le Mans sportscars etc etc all use similar technology. Maybe modern stuff uses a better system?

I here of all the trouble people have getting the wheels lined up when first installed, and wheels coming off, wheels galled on to the hubs, then there is the issue of the weight of the spinners, especially if they are stainless items, and the pin drives holding the steel hub on as well, and I think unsprung weight and all the cons against using this system - plus forking out an extra $2000. I LOVE THE LOOK BUT IS IT WORTH FITTING THEM TO MY CURRENT PROJECT? Gee only time will tell!

[Bob In Ct]

The safety wire is an early warning system. Fasten it with some slack. If the wire becomes tentioned the spinner is loosening up.
Use the 0.041 wire! Check the wires prior to every drive. Cap the wire ends with wire nuts, it will save a lot of cuts when cleaning the wheels.

You do not need to beat the hell out of the spinners. The pins apply the torque. All the spinner does is hold the wheel on the pins. Give the spinner a couple of moderate hits and that should be enough.

Bob

Bob

[PatBuckley]

Do NOT leave the safety wire slack - make it tight as it was intended to be used.

If your spinner is coming off the safety wire will be just hanging there - pulled apart and real easy to see.

Pat Buckley

[David Kirkham]

Pat,

I'd be happy to explain:

When the wheel is in the air.

The knock off is attached to the hub and the wheel; the wheel is attached to nothing (air) so the impulse (of the hammer blow) must look for another avenue to be reacted--the hub.

The hub is attached to the bearings it spins on; the bearings are attached to the upright which is attached to the car; the car is attached to the ground through a jack or a jack stand (remember, the car is in the air). Something must react the force of you hitting the knock off, so the bearings take a beating. I have actually seen bearing races imprinted with the roller/ball bearings.

When the wheel is on the ground.

Again, the knock off is attached to the hub and the wheel; the wheel is resting on the ground which reacts the impulse. (The hub is also attached to the wing nut which in turn is attached to the bearings. The bearings still react some of the impulse, but not nearly as much as when the wheel is not sitting on the ground.)

I hope this helps and I didn't get too far off track.

David

[PatBuckley]

Thanks for the explanation, David -

I am not yet sold on the theory however.

I too have looked at bearings that have come off everything from a Formula Atlantic car to a Sprint car (all of whom knock the heck out of the spinners with the tires in the air) and have yet to see a race that was damaged - nor have I ever heard of one that got damaged from doing this.

Maybe I was just lucky?

Pat

[trctrdrvr]

I can hear all of the laughter now but about 15 yrs ago we started using vaseline on the threads of our trailers and tractors, works real well and it's not as hard to clean off as anti-sieze is.

[Jamo]

Thanks. I was gonna mention that, but didn't want the laughing flames. Enjoy.

It does work!