Advice for a new "pin drive" wheel owner???

[David Kirkham]

Pat,

I realize many have done it for many years as I have seen it myself. I still cringe when I see it.

Sprint cars and Formula cars are regularly taken apart and inspected, (or, at least should be). When is the last time anyone around here took their car apart just to inspect it?

Race car wheels are going on and off; engines are coming in and out...there is just much more opportunity to catch something which is wrong on a race car. I think too many of us put in gas and go for a drive without much thought of anything else.

Bearings are highly stressed components by nature--why add to their stress. If a bearing galls on a race...the race is over.

David

[poorboy]

SCOBRAC,
You have the adapters on the wrong side, the left handed ones go on the right side & right hand ones go on the left side of the car.

Poorboy

[Flyin_Freddie]

As an SPF owner w/ pin-drive Trigo's, I've had some experience that has been mentioned by others on this thread.

1) Anti-sieze. I can't stress this enough. You'll never need a 'special tool' of you use anti-sieze correctly and often. FWIW, the SPF factory does not recommend using a 'special tool' tighten the knock-offs...you simply cannot get sufficient torque with one. Use a lead hammer for both removal and attachment.

2) Safety Wire. I do not like leaving the wire slack and then looking for a tightened wire to determine if a knock-off has moved. You'll wind up asking yourself just how much slack you left in that wire when you put it on. I much prefer making the wire tight, but using it opposite from the way one would normally use safety wire. Normally, you use safety wire to prevent something from loosening. But, no safety wire is strong enough to prevent a knock-off from coming completely off. So, don't lull yourself into a false sense of security...even when safety wired, a improperly installed knock off can come off! Rather, I prefer to use saftey wire to pull against the knock off ear in the normal direction of removal rotation. In this manner, if the knock off moves, the wire that you know you installed tightly will suddenly have some slack in it and you'll know you need to take few licks with that lead hammer.

3) MAINTENANCE! Check your knock offs each week...even when safety wired. I walk around my SPF every week and whack on one ear of each knock off with my lead hammer a couple of times. I've only seen one move...and that was only a fraction of an inch, but enough to alert me it had moved! Also, a satisfying 'thunk' will tell you the conical shaped mating surface is tight against the wheel. Finally, remove your wheels and knock offs at least once a year to re-apply anti-sieze and look for corrosion, more often if you live in a damp climate or wash your car frequently without a short drive immediately following to dry everything out.

Hope this helps. Many of these tips have been gathered from other SPR owners, SPF dealers, and the SPF factory itself, as well as Lynn Parks, owner of Trigo and an original Cobra owner, as well, plus a lot of personal experience.

[speed220mph]

Attached is what a lead hammer looks like after continued short-time use in the Olthoff's Superformance shop. Dennis' recommendation is to hammer the knock-off until the pitch changes to a higher range. Hold the hammer with two hands; one on the handle and the other at the head. You don't have to beat the crap out of it.

Another thing: Dennis says you don't need to use safety wire. If the nut wants to come off, that little strand of 0.041-in. stainless wire isn't going to stop it. (I still like to use it.) Oh, be sure to use anti-seize on the threads and tapered section of the wheel/nut.

This information is solid simply because Dennis races his factory Cobra and also sees many customer cars in and out of his Mt. Ulla, NC facility. Also, we didn't safety wire GT40 knock-offs at KarKraft--didn't lose a wheel. The same was true at Indy during the days of hammering them off and on.

Another tid-bit: A lead hammer works best, although a dead blow can be used. Point is, lead is heavier and also operates the same as a dead blow.

[Jim Holden]

Gee, just about all you need to know (and more) about "knock offs".

I also note that I have seen (although I have not done) a wire safety pin through the hub just outside of the knock off as a way of trying to keep the knock off from coming off. This is more common to the non-eared knock offs seen on the later GT40s (and 917s etc.).

Jim

[Cracker]

because my front right knock-off had backed off and was being held on be a bent safety pin at the end of the hub. Dennis might race and all but I believe in safety wire.

Tony Hull
Cracker on CC

[J.Jensen]

As an aircraft maintenance engineer I must admit I´m rather shocked by some of the advice above.

Leave it slack? Put it on the wrong way? It doesn't MATTER? Have you people lost your minds?

David got some really sound advice up there. That spinner is going to kill someone if it comes off at 50mph. Yes, that .41 lockwire will hold it on - if done correctly. No, it won't if you put it on backwards, too loose or worse - not at all.

And since we only have one photo up here to judge (sorry David), its got too many twists pr inch on the end, it wasn't twisted far enough towards the spinner so the final twists are slacker than the rest and opening up. Its a bit difficult to see the angle on the wire in this shot - but common rule is 60* maximum angle from anchor to whatever is safetied.

The wire must never be reused and even though we want it tight - not so tight that vibrations will overstress and brake the wire.

*Rant mode OFF*

[Cracker]

Although possibly still relevant...you're about 11 years late! I've bough/sold at least 11 cars since then, Pat B is now a Southerner and (ready for this) an actual friend of mine. Boy how times have changed!

How many people does it take to fix one connector? 1 Georgia Snake, 1 Engineer, 1 N. CA transplant (PB), and two "actual" professionals kindly donated time/materials from Goldcrest Motorsports! Everyone was very kind and I did return to the course in rather short order.

[Blas]

I believe the safety wire on a wheel spinner is only usefull as an indicator that the knock-off has moved, not a device to prevent movement of the knock-off. This is contrary to the function of safety wiring on a bolt or nut else ware on a car. I put them on the wheel with a bit of slack, not like a guitar string. If a spinner should loosten, the wire will go taunt indicating movement of the knock-off. For that matter, should they be referred to as spinners or knock-offs? I've also heard them referred to as wheel nuts.

[Tim7139]

Here's a variation on David's thoughts with a few other tips learned along the way.
First, he's absolutely right about pounding on an unsupported wheel with potential suspension componant issues, Ive seen this more than once on several English cars with 2 eared knockoffs. The first important issue I see overlooked is first when removing, everybody wants to hold the hammer at the very end and pound the s..t out of the spinner...right up until they wiff and clip a rim or mash a finger. Hold it right below the head and give it several medium level directed blows.....it will loosten after 6-8.
When tightening, I'll give it a couple taps to snug, lower the car until the tire is down,still most weight supported and ,again, several medium blows. when you sense it no longer is moving....stop hitting it.
The other little trick I like is, check ebay and get some small grey shrink tube. For $10-$15 you get a lot, its virtually invisable, protects the paint. if youre careful you can reuse it. Since Im anal, I dont like tight wire on painted spokes.
Lastly, use antiseize sparingly, a little goes a long way and a lot gets thrown off by the rotating mass and tends to get gummy. take'em off and resecure every season or so so you can clean and relube, especcially if you push it and get brakes quite hot on a regular basis.

[mdross1]

So, have to ask back when starting my build 93 was told to stay away from pin drives especially on the street because of eventually egg shaping the pin holes. A Myth?

I do love the wheels we have but those pin drives would have really done the trick.

[jcraigau]

One last question, what pin drive wheels did you get?

I bought the Vintage Wheels pin drives and they have a spinner retainer clip.
Also there is some great technical info on the site from calculating backspace to install instructions for pin drive wheels.

--JC

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by mdross1

So, have to ask back when starting my build 93 was told to stay away from pin drives especially on the street because of eventually egg shaping the pin holes. A Myth?

I do love the wheels we have but those pin drives would have really done the trick.

Generally myth. A few examples of ill fitting componants and/or inferior materials likerly behind it. Remember, proper hub & pins....nothing moves, should be no rotational stresses.

[KevinW]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

You MUST anitsieze the threads AND the face of the knock off where it contacts the wheel face. We even antisieze the drive pins a little.

David

Have read this article with interest, as I haven't fitted my Trigoes yet.
Antisieze on the threads i understand. Not sure I understand the underlined phrase - does this refer to

- the wheel facing side of the spinner where the spinner snugs down onto the outer face of the wheel,

or

the mating surfaces between the hub (where the drive pins mount) and the rear contact surface of the wheel?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, i'd rather be dumb than galled, stressed and out of pocket.

Kevin

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by KevinW

Have read this article with interest, as I haven't fitted my Trigoes yet.
Antisieze on the threads i understand. Not sure I understand the underlined phrase - does this refer to

- the wheel facing side of the spinner where the spinner snugs down onto the outer face of the wheel,

or

the mating surfaces between the hub (where the drive pins mount) and the rear contact surface of the wheel?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, i'd rather be dumb than galled, stressed and out of pocket.

Kevin

He is addressing "the wheel facing side of the spinner where the spinner snugs down onto the outer face of the wheel". I would refer to it as the conical contact face between the wheel and the knockoff.

In addition I apply it to the threads of the hub and a little on the pins to ease engaging the wheel fully on the pins. But the spinner/wheel contact face and the hub threads are the areas most subject to galling when hammering the knock-off on.