Titles Unlimited -- Bail Bonds Blues?

[Roscoe]

Mr Bruce...It is not Title Washing.

What is vehicle title washing?
Vehicle title washing occurs when vehicle rebuilders patch together severely damaged and salvaged vehicles in one state, and then move to another state to obtain clear and clean title that gives a buyer no clue of the vehicle's past damage. Often, the rebuilt vehicles have significant defects that bring buyers problems, expenses, and safety risks.

In 1998, 2.5 million U.S. vehicles were so badly damaged that they were declared a total loss, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. Of these, approximately 40% were rebuilt and put back on the road. Women, minorities, recent immigrants, and teenagers buying their first cars are common targets of unscrupulous vehicle sellers.

Next:

This is about money and nothing else. States have an insatiable appitite for money from people who have it so they can pad their coffers and dole it out to people who are undeserving but will vote for them.

California is a good example, so is NJ. Taxes just keep going up and the iinefficiency of government just keeps getting worse. But nobody really cares to do anything about it. People scream like stuck pigs when some strange bank wants to charge you 50 cents to use their ATM but when government raises gas tax or sales tax or tolls then people are like sheep.

Roscoe

[Gerry A.]

Hey, do all us cobra drivers/oweners need to get together and throw some more tea in the harbor at Boston..LMAO>>> just joking.. I see an underlying theme here lots of taxes and no one is being represented or at least appreciated.. Man I sure hope it all blows over but prob won't. Only thing I can hope for is I'm dead when the sh*** really hits the fan and I wont have to worry about it.

[Excaliber]

I'm not sure that taxes should be based on "what YOU paid" for the car, IF that price is indeed far below a reasonable market value for the car as it exists at the time of registration.

In the case of an SPF a reasonable market value is MUCH easier to obtain than your typical Cobra. Prices for an FFR are all over the map. SPF's consistently sell in the $40-50K range.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that Calif is going after SPF owners for that very reason. The value of the car CAN be "nailed down".

Ernie

[vettestr]

This is/has gotten so darn depressing and we all feel helpless to fight the Monster about taxes or more to the point how the Gov. spends them. I add this to lighten the moment.

[Hal Copple]

it seems to me, not living in CA, but being aware of their "clout" when it comes to setting national standards for the rest of the country, that there are a number of states, ie, i think of CA, MA, MN, that really want to level the field for their population. Americans have always had a different view of "conspicuous" consumption, unlike Europe, where folks can flaunt thier wealth and position. I believe that the above states's politicians work hard to pretty much make it equal for everyone, by making it harder for those with more, to have the opportunity to spend it in any way they want.

I think other states, like the South, and Texas, pretty much let folks do what they want with their money. Of course, my beloved SC has a pretty dismal record of making it equal in important areas, historically.

But i think that in CA, and the above, if "average folks" can't have something, they put obstacles in front of those people who might possiblly have more. It seems that those who are perceived as "wealthy" are despised by politicians in some states.

Complex and competing goals for our American society. I guess states reflect what their people want for themselves.

I just resent it when some other states good citizens tell me how i am supposed to live. SC seems to think that as long as you cause others no harm, you can live your own life. Hopefully, my state will continue to move ahead with what we perceive is best for our fellow Carolineans.

[Ron61]

Roscoe,

Your statement that no one cares enough to do anything about the way things are ran in California is not completely correct. Almost everyone in Northern Calif. dislikes Gray Davis and his bunch and have voted against them over whemingly every election. But the money and power are in Southern Calif. and that is why that bunch of crooks stay in power. He won't even come up here to campaign as there aren't enough votes to bother. Perhaps you could give us a suggestion on how to get rid of all that bunch, short of assigination. We are trying to get a recall election but Davis is suing to stop it as he feels the people have no right to tell a Governor what to do. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Ron

[Tom T.]

SB 100 did not, to my knowledge, displace the prior registration method in CA (generally dictated by the year of the engine), but supplemented it. The problem with SB 100, of course, is that only 500 cars per year can be registered under it. If you don't get in early enough, you still have the old method available, assuming your engine qualifies, or you wait until next year.

TT

[Roscoe]

Just read this one. Full story at
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...5936-6451r.htm

UC eyes surcharge for rich students


By Steve Sexton
THE WASHINGTON TIMES



California's premier university system is considering charging rich students more tuition to offset deep funding cuts resulting from the state's $38 billion budget deficit.
The Board of Regents of the University of California examined a proposal for a surcharge on wealthy students at a meeting Thursday. The university would be the first in the country to target wealthy students with a surcharge.

"From each according to ability; to each according to need!"...Karl Marx


Roscoe

[Cal Metal]

Roscoe:

Just a little clarification on that point. Most students who have a financial need are, generally, the recepients of grants, low cost loans, and scholarships based on that need. In a sense, the wealthy kid who doesn't receive those funds because of an income "ineligibility" issue--his parents have to high a net worth, income, etc---is already being penalized. It just isn't as visible as the case you stated in your post.

I have been a Board member for a University Foundation for six years, spending much of my time on their scholarship committee.
While many students are deserving of aid because of limited family resources, I am always amazed at how the system penalizes those who work hard to save for education and reward those who show up at the front steps with no funds at all, resulting in the perks I just referred to in the first paragraph.

[klayfish]

Roscoe,
Technically, the example of the damaged cars you site is just one form of title washing. It is far and away the most common, but the services offered by TU is also considered title washing. Basically, it's intentionally registering a vehicle in another state, only to bring it back to the original state, in order to alter something on the title. Whether it's changing the year on the title, removing a salvage branding, former taxi, flood, whatever.

I don't disagree at all that money may be at the heart of the issue, but it is actually title washing. It is what it is.

Steve

[Roscoe]

Steve,
But I never had a title so how could I wash it? It's not like I had the Cobra titled as a 2000 and then went through TU for a 65 title.
Roscoe

[BamaBrett]

Originally posted by Excaliber




In the case of an SPF a reasonable market value is MUCH easier to obtain than your typical Cobra. Prices for an FFR are all over the map. SPF's consistently sell in the $40-50K range.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that Calif is going after SPF owners for that very reason. The value of the car CAN be "nailed down".

Ernie [/b]

Ernie,

You hit the nail on the head !!! The market value of a Superformance is consistent and well-established. Anyone who has the money to buy a new $50K+ SPF and resorts to chicanery to evade the sales tax is, IMHO, a damned fool. Your a$$ is grass once the government gets hold of the Bill of Sale, bank checks, etc.

We're talking about a "toy" here, a luxury item. IMHO, the reward does not justify the risk (prosecution, possible jail time, loss of job and reputation, and putting the family through hell). Personally, I'll suck it up and pay my taxes. At least I know I'm setting a good example for my kids. That's kind of important in this day and age.

Knowingly committing and/or encouraging tax fraud is just plain STUPID. That is all, over, and out.


Y'all take it easy now, Brett

[klayfish]

Roscoe,
I could be wrong on this, because my field of expertise is mostly with cars that have existing titles. But I think what they are going after is the intent involved. I think that when you get the car, there is a "proper" and "legal" method in New Jersey to register the vehicle through their DMV. It's the fact of using TU to get the title quicker, or with a different year on it, or get around emissions, that is the problem. What they are arguing is that there is a legal method to register the car in your state, and you took intentional measures to get around it. Whether that itself is called title washing, I'm not sure. And again, I could be wrong. That is my guess.

Steve

[Bud Man]

As a former resident of California, who remembers the days when that state was counted among those known for conservative viewpoints, I am truly saddened to see such a beautiful place driven into the ground, and so much of the "car culture" that California created being lost. But the last time I checked, the top offices at state and local level were ELECTED offices, not appointed.

I know all about the conservative voting blocs in the valley, and in the true "Northern California" ( and it ain't the Bay Area), and feel bad that you are living with policies that politicians you DIDN'T vote for pushed into law. Folks on this forum are car guys and gals - gear heads - and while the current major political leaders in California care about your money, they don't care about YOU. I guess there just aren't enough of you left to make a difference on election day. You DID vote, didn't you?

All that being said, you Californians still have the most beautiful beaches, best weather on the earth, a housing market that can make you rich (or poor) seemingly overnite and a generally dynamic social environment, intellectually speaking. You may not be able to drive the car you want, but life is full of trade-off's.

But you CAN take comfort that eventually most if not all of the states will adopt many - if not all - of these policies, particularly if they are revenue enhancing. Yep, even Texas and the South. Some will just take longer than others. So in the end, we're all in the same boat.......

Except you'll still have the weather.......

Bud

[Roscoe]

Hey Bud,

I was in San Francisco once and was walking down the street and dropped my car keys. I had to kick them 4 blocks before I felt comfortable enough to bend over and pick em up.

Roscoe

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Here in good ole Louisiana it is very simple to get a title for a "kit-car/replica" be it a Superformance or FFR. MSO from manufacter or VALID bill of sale,go to the DMV and pay taxes on actual value of car and get title.... FFR for example,MSO and bill of sale for kit,receipts for all "donor" parts showing they were legally bought and not stolen and also showing you actually paid sales tax on those parts already,a roadworthy inspection by the state police and your about done... Really not that difficult...

Other states may be different,but by and large they are all very similar.... They expect you to pay taxes on the value of the car and show that the "donor" parts were not stolen and legally bought,that goes for Superformances also,just show where you got the motor and trans and how much you paid for them and your ready to go...

TU's main objective is circumventing the law....I do not like paying taxes any more than any one else,but it is worth it????? I know of 2 Mercedes that the owner "lost" or had confiscated by the stae police that were rebuilt from totals and the owners could not produce the proper documentation needed.... The way they got caught was one was involved in another accident and had three different sets ov VIN number on varouis parts and one set was from a stolen car.... the owners lost both car because they were deemed stolen and could not produce the needed documentaion to prove otherwise....

It may cost a little more to do it right,but to me it's worth it so I can sleep good at night....

The guy in question may be the nicest guy around and a great cop,but he did what he did knowing he was circumventing the law and he knew what he was doing was legally wrong or he would not have gone thru the trouble to do it that way.... He got caught,now he should be dealt with accordingly,he took the chance and lost....Just because others do it and have done it doesn't make it right or o-k for everyone to do it....

David

[petek]

Same thing here in Missouri ... bring your receipts, pay the taxes (on items that have not already had taxes paid), get a quick inspection, wait a few weeks and ta-da, titled.

While I can understand not wanting to pay the "big bucks" that some states much charge in taxes; the way to fix the problem is not to circumvent the law but to change the law.

And come to think of it... just when is California going to split into two parts (Northern and Southern)? Has anyone figured out how to make San Diego part of the Northern half after the split?

[flipper35]

Petek, it is actually south central California that is the problem. I am about as south as you can get and we are a very conservative community.

[Bud Man]

Ohhhh Roscoe!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bud

[Jamo]

Hey Brent! You'd better define just what the hell you mean by "south central California".

This state went to hell in a handbasket when some morons decided to redraw legislative districts based upon freeking population, and then kicked it down a few more levels by being misguided into voting for term limits which are too short.

The Valley and other rural areas used to be on par, power-wise, with the urban centers before population-based districts came into being, and the rural areas kept the perfect balance for the rest of the state. Term limits are not a bad thing, but having too short a term limitation means we now have a bunch of amateurs trying to run the damn place, with lobbyists like Comrade Richie Ross running things. Just about the time a legislator gets enough experience, he/she/it has to move on. I never minded "experts" from either party. As a republican, I'll take an Unruh or a Howard Way any day over these term limited idiots that are afraid to make decisions that keep them from being elected to ever higher offices.

Entrenched power and pork barrel projects are not necessarily bad within a state (federal's another thing). Freeways, dams, canals, UC campuses, etc.--these were things that made us proud!

Screw the damn fairy shrimp!