Slightly OT: Ebay and Bid tampering

[mrmustang]

With a 289FIA Kirkham up on the auction block, and with my access to a dated "K" code 289 HiPo motor, I at least have to try my best............Never said I was getting out of Cobras, big difference between having to sell, and wanting to sell if you catch my drift.................

Bill S.

Originally posted by jamvan


Bill S.

I'm just sorry to see a local guy selling his car.

jim v.

[Excaliber]

Hey how about a link to the e-bay site where the car is for sale? ........'cause I'm lazy, thats why.

Ernie

[mrmustang]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2425024364

[aumoore]

Originally posted by mrmustang


Someone on FFcobra locked my thread, hope those here are more objective on this subject..................


Bill S.

Now you know why we protect free speach so much! Censorship is a bad thing even in a private setting. Now I do love the FFcobra forum but I do not agree with locking threads like this and banning certain members.

Bill
I hope that you still get to sell your car at what you feel is a fair deal.

Ruble M.
Treasurer and harry leged Secreatary of the DSCC

[frankym]

I'm not sure what this guy did should really matter all that much. If you were selling reconditioned de walt 18 volt drills and you selling 100 per year, then somebody trying to undercut you in the form of bid syphoning is a little unscrupulous. However, in your case, I highly doubt that this other seller was selling the same unit. So it may have just been an act of desperation because his "better deal" would have to be for a similar contemporary with similar components. So I think you're upset for the wrong reason, his acts have not taken anything away from your auction, he's just a little naive to think that shaving a few dollars off his ask price for his brand xyz cobra would make a difference. His actions should be seen as just a waste of time.

[Excaliber]

I never thought about it, "Bid Siphoning" that is, I guess it is a policy of e-bay to not allow such things. Sounds like a good "law" to me. If someone else has something for sale, let THEM put it on e-bay themselves.

My guess is this sort of thing happens quite a lot?

...curious that FF would lock down the thread, as it seems like this is at least good for "public education".

Ernie

[mrmustang]

Frank,

The way I see it is a bit differently, I am the one who spent the money to list my vehicle on Ebay, I am the one who got those people who bid on my car to do so. With Eric emailing those people with offers to sell them his car for less money is wrong, not only does it create conflict, but it could create a second guessing nature for those bidders that would have bid higher for my car. Remember, not everyone knows the difference between a Contemporary Cobra and a FFR (or ERA, or SPF, or???), all they see is a pretty car for less money........The wasted time is my own, the opportunity for me to bid higher on the Kirkham 289FIA will be gone if one of those people he contacted decides to not bid further on my car because there is a car out there for less money.My ebay fees, (out the window because of this very same thing), and everything else associated with my auction....So I'm sorry if you feel he did nothing wrong, however, your feelings are misguided because your not in my shoes at this time.......My feelings are as follows, if he wanted to sell his car via ebay, let him spend the money to do so and take his own chances just like everyone else......Nothing more, nothing less...........


Bill S.

[mrmustang]

Ernie,

It is my understanding that Eric is listed as a sub forum moderator as well (although it was Wayne who locked it down)..While beating a dead horse it would be, it still should have been left open to the general public so that Eric could see just how disgusting everyone else thought about his actions.........

Bill S.

Originally posted by Excaliber


[B}
...curious that FF would lock down the thread, as it seems like this is at least good for "public education".

Ernie [/b]

[frankym]

I see your point, I think you can elect to run a private auction and in that venue, the identites of the bidders remains anonymous, try looking into this if you decide to list it again. I think your bigger problem is going to be with deadbeat bidders with 0 feedback points, these guys are usually jokers who want you to hold the car while they accumulate the money over time. It's sad but true.

[mrmustang]

Franky,

I try to shy away from doing hidden auctions because you never know who your bidding against. I prefer to keep mine open so that you can see it all. As for the current high bidder, we went back and forth numerous times before he signed on and placed a bid. I am sure it is real, and that he would follow through should he hit my 45K reserve price....Then again, I just took another potential buyer for a ride....Now it's up to his wife to decide (you know how that goes)................


Bill S.

[Sizzler]

As I understand it, someone is offering to sell his car to your bidders, and you’re upset.

I don’t quite see why.

You have a car for sale, and are attempting to sell it in an open market setting.
He has a car for sale, and is marketing it to demonstrably interested people. Yes, you brought those people to light, but not all of them are going to be able to buy your ONE car. So, why can’t he sell his, for a lesser price, to one of your bidders?

I assume you fear that his apparent undercutting of your price will harm your sale. Hard truth is that the buyer sets the price, not the seller. If your price is too high and his is more reasonable, why shouldn’t they buy at the lower price? Assuming all else is relatively equal.

I mean, if Ford sells its little cars for $15K minimum and then Chevy offers their comparable little cars for $14K, should the attorney generals jump all over GM for their pricing? If Chevy also got the registration information from the DMV’s as to what drivers of little Fords are in the market for a new little car (based on model year possibly), is that so despicable?

You remind me of someone else on this forum that wanted HIS price, and no discussion about it. So much so that he got the rules changed for himself, until he sold it, at which time the rules reverted back to ‘normal’. So someone is ‘discussing’ your price and its ‘reasonableness’ in today’s market. So what. It’s a free market, with both buyers and sellers, and multiples of each.

I really don’t see the basis for your indignation.

[HIQ]

I would be pissed! This is not a debate on pricing but a debate on eBay ethics. When a guys spends his hard earned MONEY to list his car he does not expect others to contact his bidders.

The fact that he knows the guy only makes it worse! Nice car....Good Luck

[CSX 4039]

I think ebay is a good place to buy, but a lousy place to sell. Too many sellers, not enough buyers. In this economy everybody is trying to sell unneccesary baubles, and those who are buying baubles want them for pennies. Just my opinion. I bought a red convertible BMW on ebay last month. Flat out stole it.

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by Sizzler


As I understand it, someone is offering to sell his car to your bidders, and you’re upset.

I don’t quite see why.

You have a car for sale, and are attempting to sell it in an open market setting.
He has a car for sale, and is marketing it to demonstrably interested people. Yes, you brought those people to light, but not all of them are going to be able to buy your ONE car. So, why can’t he sell his, for a lesser price, to one of your bidders?

I assume you fear that his apparent undercutting of your price will harm your sale. Hard truth is that the buyer sets the price, not the seller. If your price is too high and his is more reasonable, why shouldn’t they buy at the lower price? Assuming all else is relatively equal.

I mean, if Ford sells its little cars for $15K minimum and then Chevy offers their comparable little cars for $14K, should the attorney generals jump all over GM for their pricing? If Chevy also got the registration information from the DMV’s as to what drivers of little Fords are in the market for a new little car (based on model year possibly), is that so despicable?

You remind me of someone else on this forum that wanted HIS price, and no discussion about it. So much so that he got the rules changed for himself, until he sold it, at which time the rules reverted back to ‘normal’. So someone is ‘discussing’ your price and its ‘reasonableness’ in today’s market. So what. It’s a free market, with both buyers and sellers, and multiples of each.

I really don’t see the basis for your indignation.

While in a free market economy, you are right, if he is violating the established rules of ebay, then he is wrong.

[mrmustang]

Sizzler,

What tweaks me the most is that I spent the money, created the auction page, got the people interested in my Cobra, then had dear Eric come along and try to steal those buyers away from my auction. In a free market society, Eric could have spent his own money and placed his car up on Ebay. Whether it was less expensive or not is irrelevant, what he did was against the user terms of Ebay, and against the moral terms of the rest of those around here who get it. Kind of like if you were in your own home and had a group of people in to buy some of your belongings, but I barged in to your home and told everyone that I had the same stuff across the street only at a lesser price...................Not quite the same is it...............Discussing a price is one thing, stealing registered bidders away from an ongoing auction (aka: a business deal) is not. To do so means that your willing to stab people in the back to get your way. It means that your never to be trusted again. Get the idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Think about it carefully.....Eric had to register on Ebay first, thereby accepting their rules and regulations, yet when it came time for him to follow those same rules and regulations, he showed that he did not give a damn about anyone but himself.


Bill S.

[Doug I]

Originally posted by Sizzler


...I mean, if Ford sells its little cars for $15K minimum and then Chevy offers their comparable little cars for $14K, should the attorney generals jump all over GM for their pricing? If Chevy also got the registration information from the DMV’s as to what drivers of little Fords are in the market for a new little car (based on model year possibly), is that so despicable?

I see your thinking. Now imagine those Chevy dealers coming onto the Ford lot and into the showroom and trying to sell their cars directly from the factory. Same thing with MrM. He set up his car lot and he has interested ppl "on the lot". Along comes someone else (without a car lot) and attempts to poach customers. If he wants to sell his car then he should set up his own 'lot' I think it is unethical in the least.

[Doug I]

you timed that last post well MrM ......

[mrmustang]

I like your analogy better than mine......With this subject, I have a tendancy to ramble on just a bit.Then again, over 12 hours later, and I'm still pissed at Eric for doing what he did to me at at least one other member of these forums.............My email count from the two highest bidders has dropped to zero, as well as my normal email inquiries being half of what they once were.............Coincidence, I doubt it......................Cause and effect, put a little doubt in to someones head, and it bites you in the rear...........having Eric do it for me did not help, and I'm the one who may be out the listing fees and the wasted 10 days of auction time.................

Bill S.

Originally posted by Doug I


you timed that last post well MrM ......

[jamvan]

Bill S.

I 100% support you on your position regarding this matter. When I first started looking a purchasing a car on Ebay, I was contacted by other sellers more times than I can remember offering me their cars. I not only declined each offer, but also reported all of them the Ebay. I think the tactic they were using was not only in voilation of ebay policy but also sleezy.

jim v.

[Sizzler]

Originally posted by Doug I


I see your thinking. Now imagine those Chevy dealers coming onto the Ford lot and into the showroom and trying to sell their cars directly from the factory. Same thing with MrM. He set up his car lot and he has interested ppl "on the lot". Along comes someone else (without a car lot) and attempts to poach customers. If he wants to sell his car then he should set up his own 'lot' I think it is unethical in the least.

ebay's name comes from 'electronic bay', as in the booths or bays in Antique Malls you find along most interstates nowadays.

Go into one of those, and if any dealers are on the premises, though not necessarily in their little booth areas, they'll ask you what you're looking for and if they've got it, lead you from whatever booth you might be in, past any other booths that might have something closer or more reasonably priced for what you're looking for, right to their own personal selling space. Is that unethical?

Ditto the old Maxwell Street Market here. Looking at mats at one table and you'll find some little kid telling you "mister there's mats down there, follow me and see".

Ditto the old Produce market on Water Street. A produce dealer hears you're looking for Gala's, and suddenly such a deal just for you right down here, and they'll pull you out of wherever you are and out down to their space.

Ditto trade shows. Companies pay for floor space in a convention center, selling distribution software. Multiple vendors all in one aisle. They see you looking in a booth across the aisle and suddenly they're the one and only solution for whatever problem you're looking to solve.

Like I said. Free market economy, the American way.

Don't know about ebay rules, not an ebay lawyer. But I don't know how closely some people's ethical behaviour on ebay auctions who've posted here could stand to be examined. I seem to remember a Kirkham auction a few months ago when even I was surprised at the brazen way some people seemed to be saying "I put my bid in, where's yours?" on a no-reserve auction.

Anyway, good luck on your sale. But whether "Eric's" behaviour is truly ethical or not according the to standards of ebay, I haven't seen any actual facts or more importantly, any actual distortments of facts, from him. It would be that simple in my mind. Is he truly selling a Cobra? Is it comparable to the one in the auction? Is he willing to sell it for whatever (apparently) low price he's asking?

Again, good luck.