Ffr Opinions?

[misfit41]

I looked at lots of cars,I still contend a well built,non donor ffr is the best car out there ,it's the only car that does not use 30 yr old technology,and to my knowledge is the only car with a stress free body ,like an original,as nice as some of the higher priced cars are,like my shell,,they are antiquated,that said,,the next thing to consider is building that top notch ffr will cost you maybe what an spf will cost you ready to go,i suppose like these guys say,you have to decide what you want.
I do feel the ffr is looked down on here,maybe because of the perception the low price advertising gets .
I think the small block is a great match for an ffr,but then again I dont see why a big block dosent make as much sense as in any other car,maybe more,I think the ffr has lots of simularities to a real car,I just think most people underestimate the amount of work and money to get it there.
As far as a big block goes,you can build a wicked 390-428 for about the cost of a quality small block,and they weight about the same with alloy heads,so go for it,,by the way I am calling southern monday to check on the $4500 center oiler,,I must have misread that line.Tk

[foothills gary]

I seriously considered building an FFR,but when I added up all the expenses to build a non-donor,I was up into Unique territory(probably mid-$40's).Something to consider with an FFR that really has nothing to do with the car itself,is who is going to supply your parts,can they get them to you stat,and most importantly how much are your total shipping costs going to add up to.Remember,this is money you will never recover at resale! Thats why I decided to go SPF-there is a dealer in Reno,Nevada only 2 hours from my house,and there standard price was f.o.b. Reno(no additional shipping)Otherwise,I was caught between Unique and ERA.I would have no doubt been happy with all these cars mentioned,including FFR but SPF allowed me to put more of my cash into the car itself.

[Turk]

Misfit41,
Ok. You win.
ffr donor car is the best car out there, and it is the only car out there that does not use 30 yr old technology. That may be challenged by others, and when it is, do NOT take it as an assault on ffrs, as much as it may be a valid argument against the way you make that assertion.

"the only stress free body". hmmm, ERA may have an issue with that. A friend with ERA 004 who lives a few miles down the road from me, has a hard time finding and stress problems with his 25 year old body. I guess in another 20 years or so we can compare the two.

I repeat, no one is saying ffr is anything less than what they advertise. Hell even the Smith Bros don't make the claim you do.
BEST? I doubt it. Good, perhaps.

It is NOT the "low cost advertising", it is the fact that it is a LOW COST car.

If at $12,000 it was a better car than ERA, Kirkham and others those guys would have been out of business. I believe one of them have a wait list around 10 months.

Like I said in an earlier thread, maybe it is NOT us.... "US" in here own all sort of cars, and probably don't like someone coming and telling us their low cost car is best and better than the rest.

Don't you all see how arrogant that comes across, and don't you all understand how it tweaks the people when you then turn around and claim "WE" whoever that may be, look down on YOU?

TURK

[Excaliber]

Stress free body? I was not aware that ANY re-creation Cobra available on the market today was any different in that regard.

I don't know of a single one that uses the body as a "stressed agent". The "body" is just along for the ride.

SOME of the early cars had the body bolted\screwed\glued directly to the "frame" without benefit of "isolaters" such as, rubber, silicone or some kind of vibration absorbtion mounting. Some of these EARLY cars could and did develop "cracks" as a result.

Ernie

[MotoCobra]

As we all know, I ain't got no love for "The Man" and some of his latest business concoctions.

However, as I follow this thread and recognize some of the references to cost v. different brands, I gotta say:

The choice is simple. Do it yourself, the FFR way and don't get silly with your options-OR-Do it the SAI CSX-4000 (The new CAV built $39K version) and get the full-on "Original" value base.

I can't see where the ERAs and SPFs really have any benefits anymore. Hey, I think they're both EXCELLENT cars; but, the reasons for buying them (Bang for the Buck) are gone (Unless these new CSXs really suck...Dear God, I hope they don't...there are too many people buying "into" them already and it's something this community doesn't need...neither does SAI for that matter and I've never seen anything but BEAUTIFUL cars -GTs- from CAV)

So...FFR on one end of the scale (cost-wise...not quality wise...I've gotten nothing but good to say about the Smiths and their operation) and the CSXs that are directly cost competitive with just about anyone-else, on the other end of the $ scale.

Well, there I go with my Opinions again, it's funny...noones caught me for actually saying something good about SAI?

Manny

[foothills gary]

There are plenty of reasons for buying an ERA or SPF other than bang for the buck.These are elegant sports motorcars in their own right,beautifully made interpretations of a classic British design(with SPF still having links to the Brits)I personally wouldn't pay 50 cents extra for anything with Shelby's name attached to it,because I think the old man sold out years ago.Time will tell on the CAV CSX's(or not if he can't deliver),but my guess is these cars will fall into the 30k niche quality-wise,with a 10kShelby tax added on for the man(sorry,I mean 39.9k)For the scratch builders among us ,I think the FFR's rock.IMHO

[CRZN427]

rem, and others,

As long as we have opinions we will have something to say.

There is a lot of talk about the "little" FFR, and the "light "FFR.

If you check the basic dimensions you will find that the FFR is the same size as the original cars, that is, with a 90" WB. I haven't exactly measured the width but I'd venture to guess it is the same also.

The FFR might be lighter than other kits but probably not as light as the originals, or the Kirkham (and current SAI) cars with the availability of aluminum bodies. The fact that it is light is one of the advantages to the FFR, fewer pounds per available horse power.

The other fiberglass kits that I have seen, and I haven't seen them all, tend to have thicker glass on the body. Most of these cars rely on the extra thickness of the body to hold it in shape without any support beyond the chassis connections and the frame section that attaches the windshield, the foot boxes, the pedal box and the steering assembly around the dash area. Some have a little additional chassis support at the hood and trunk hinge locations.

The FFR has a thin fiberglass body that requires a "sub frame" to support it, like the origonal cars needed a sub frame to support the aluminum body. Additionally, the chassis is the same basic design as the original cars with round tubes for the main frame members.

There is probably a trade off between the sub frame that the FFR has and the extra weight of fiberglass in the body that the other cars have. I believe that FFR has an additional advantage here in that they utilize all aluminum paneling for the inner body sections around the wheel wells, trunk, fire wall, transmission tunnel and the perimeter of the cockpit.

These panels weigh considerably less than the "fiberglass tubs" that the other kits use (except, of course, the aluminum bodied cars from Kirkham and SAI).

As for the "donor" concept, the FFR cars were designed to be an easy simple build that took advantage of being able to get all the necessary parts from FFR and one "donor car".

The concept was for simplicity of building a car without having to run all over creation to assemble the parts necessary to put your dream together.

In the earlier days of FFR there were several builds that were documented to be under $15K to have a drivable car. I also remember of a couple of "one day builds" where several experienced folks got together and assembled a car in one day.

Along with this simplicity was the decrease in cost that FFR was able to pass on to the buyer, a buyer who was, at first, not willing to put $40K into a car of this sort. The Smith Brothers must have gotten it pretty close to right because they have sold, and continut to sell, more cars than all of the others (combined I think).

When several buyers got beyond the less expensive portion of their build they found that they wanted to have the original style big block, after all that is the essence of the Cobra.

The FFR will accept the larger engines and transmissions, like the other kits, they were a close copy of the originals in dimensons and the engines will fit without problem. FFR has a section in the build manual for the installation of a 429/460 big block, so it is no surprise that several have done so.

In their efforts to provide what the buyer wants, FFR designed and markets an independent rear suspension. They also offer a "three link" (which utilizes the standard rear axel) that is almost as good, as the independent style, in many of the performance applications in the Cobra racing world. Additionally, the FFR independent rear suspension will bolt up under the Mustang, if you don't want to use yours for the donor car.

The FFR body does look different, with it's "perky butt" but if you take careful measurements of the other Cobra replicas you will find that they all have differences in the body, some significant, none as noticable and the FFR trunk.

There are as many ways to build a car like these as there are builders. Some want something that will nearly pass as an original, some just want a nice street roadster, others want a fast racing machine while still others want a show and shine trailer queen.

You can get out of the car pretty much what you put in it, as long as you do a reasonable job of assembly and pay attention to details. Don't scrimp on accessories either, that will give a sour appearance to any car regardles of the initial cost.

Do the necessary research, visit the factories, visit local shows where more and more Cobra replicas are being shown, visit the race events and see who has the power (I seem to remember that the small block cars were out performing the big block cars at the last Run-N-Gun) try to talk some owners into a ride and a drive if possible.

You have to decide what is important to you, then from what is available, you might be able to make up your mind.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[Excaliber]

CRZN427,,,well written. Even I got something out of that. Not sure about the number of units sold compared to Classic Roadster, about the same I think? They both been in the game a LONG time and remain in the game today!

Ernie

[Colonial Cobra]

FFR is well over the 3000 mark now.

[rem]

for what it is worth, while at the FFR factory this july, i was told that they have sold @3500 to date, and were shipping between three and five per DAY........alot of cars........thanks again everyone for your input.....it is helpful....

[mrmustang]

CRZN427,

My first FFR weighed in at 2382lbs with a full tank of gas. 351W/385hp Ford crate engine with aluminum heads, blow proof bellhousing, T5 transmission.coil overs, 8.8 3:55 geared rear end, heater, wipers, convertible top (in trunk).

My Contemporary weighs in at 2465lbs with a full tank of gas (18 gallons worth), 427 center oiler, blowproof bellhousing, toploader 4spd,coil overs, and jag rear, heater, wipers, convertible top in trunk.

The Contemporary has a more solid feel than the FFR, the cowl/windshield shake is not an issue with the Contemporary, where the FFR was terrible under NYC pothole, or railroad crossing, etc type conditions...


Granted, my first FFR had a solid rear, and the Contemporary has the Jag independant rear, but we'll see when I build my next FFR (did you think I wouldn't)with the IRS, so I can do an Apples to Apples comparison of the two...........Only time will tell.............


Yours in Fords,

Bill S.

[klayfish]

How about this? The arguments about "what kit is best" is a never ending debate.

I think one argument for the FFR is "bang for the buck". As has been said, the FFR is a lower cost car (which is not a bad thing, or a good one, it just is). For the money, I think you get a lot of fun and enjoyment.

And the debate goes on...

Steve

[southernfriedcj]

Originally posted by rem


why is it that FFR is looked "down" upon here, as ive gathered....i have checked out the ffcobra forum

I do not think the FFR is looked "down" upon here. I am a memeber of the FFR Forum. I was a member of the COBRAFORUM before it was shut down. I lurked at the FFR forum for a while, because it was for FFR's only. There is good info for non FFR owners there also(there is a tremendous knowledge base among the members). As the FFR forum is an "on topic" only forum, I wish more of it's members would darken the Club Cobra doorway and and join in the "wider" spectrum of Cobra fun we enjoy here(in addition to their membership on the FFR Forum, not instead of it).
The only draw back to Club Cobra is the gASSholes, and I apologize on their behalf. I kid, they're some lovable bastids.

[Roscoe]

Wow! You go away for a day and there's three pages to read. Anyway, I started my original post with "FFR are good cars" or something like that. I then went on to explain what I saw as weaknesses in the car. Why is that a problem?

I built and A&C and can outline the weaknesses in that brand. None of these manufacturers are perfect and they all have some weak points.

Ok...how's this? I just love ffr's. They are the best. I don't think there is anything to compare to their quality, ease of build and low cost. I think the Smith Brothers should run for president.

How's that? Feel better?

Roscoe

[BeanCounter]

Rem,

I'm kind of like you. I lurked around the forums, this one, FFR, Cobranet (what a group that is) trying to absorb what I could before I bought. I've wanted one of these cars for 35 years since I first sat in an original. I asked myself what I wanted it for...cruising, racing, waxing... In my past I had a '59 FI Corvette, '76 BB Corvette, '68 GTO and had done a little street racing (which in middle age I now know to be stupid). So I figured I wanted to do a little cruising and go to a driving school to really learn how to drive. I didn't want to build it, I wanted to drive it, hell I might be dead before I got it built. And with that knowledge I started looking. I looked at SPF's, BDR's, FFR's and everything in between. I could really buy whatever I wanted even an SAI. But I settled on an FFR that was built with a great deal of input from the Mott college build school. And references told me that the car had been built by someone who had done a really good job on it. So I felt I had made a perfectly logical decision on what car to buy............................. knowing full well that Momma would beat my ass if I punted a $60,000 SPF into a wall at the Kansas raceway.

[Tongue Pirate]

I think most guys start out with the FFR in mind because of the financial ease of the build. FFR makes a car that can be built really well if it is within the talent & desire of the builder. There are many satisfied FFR owners out there which is a testament to the product. Knowing what you want to spend & what you want out of the car in the end will help you with your choice

[decooney]

Hi rem,
I wouldn't say that FFR is looked down upon by people here on ClubCobra. FFRs are great cars, and they are just different. There are some very picky (detail oriented) people here that know what they like and don't like. We all know that FFRs are a great deal functionally and financially. No doubt. However, when comparing aesthetics of the FFR to other cars that can be built or sometimes sell for comparable prices used, the debates will begin. One thing is for sure, we all like Cobras, no matter what brand, make, or type as long as you don't install a small chain steering wheel and curb feelers!

It's sort of like art, and it's all subjective really. And, that's what makes horse races, right? Good Luck.

[RACERAL]

If I was gonna spend 50k on a cobra.. I think you would be nuts not to buy one of those new csx cars.. for 39..... (oh.. I do own a ffr)

[Turk]

Al,
Your comments as a FFR owner carries a lot more weight than anything anyone could possibly say.When someone says something about ANY brand of Cobra, the reader can't help but glance to the left of the post to see what the writer owns.

The rules are changing constantly.
There was ERA on top, (may very well still be there), then for many SPF afforded a great alternative. Ready, quick painted and everything else is done up. Just add batteries.

Shelby wasn't even a consideration for many. All of a sudden there is another $40K alternative.
I 've said it before. I know NOTHING about CAV cars. With or without a badge.
If the car is not a good car it will still be a bad car, except it will be a Shelby. That doesn't go too far nowadays when you have such a big selection to choose from.

Who owns a CAV Cobra. Why don't we hear from them. They did build Cobras besides the highly acclaimed GT-40 didn't they?

[computerworks]

Originally posted by Turk



Who owns a CAV Cobra. Why don't we hear from them. They did build Cobras besides the highly acclaimed GT-40 didn't they?

No... the Cobra (CSX) is a new project for them. Manufacturing plans provided by SAI.
They have an excellent product in their GT-40... I've seen it and sat in it... it is a very precision-made car.
CAV has reserved an area in their factory for the 'new' Cobra project.