Mister Lister hits the scales

[snakeeyes]

I know this is not strictly "Cobra talk", but thought ya'll might find it interesting anyhow. Since I got my Beck Lister I've read all kinds of data on what to expect as far as the car's curb weight. The magazines that have done articles have cited weights from 1,800 pounds on the low side, all the way to the car that placed third in Car and Driver's tuner car shootout last September, which weighed around 2180 pounds. Chuck Beck's personal Run n' Gun car reportedly scales in somewhere around 1,700 pounds, but it has a super-thin body, doors and trunk that don't even have hinges (they clip on), stripped interior, etc.

My car is finished to a pretty decent standard, with a fully carpeted interior, some heat insulation, carpeted trunk, hinged doors and trunk, thicker fiberglass, etc. I was hoping it would come in at a ton or less when all finished. Last night I had a chance to get her on the scales. The numbers:

Curb weight (with about six gallons of gas in the tank): 1, 992 pounds

Weight distribution, front/rear: 47% - 53%

Weight distribution, driver's side/passenger side: 49% - 51%

I have not yet had a chance to get her on a chassis dyno. Going by the flywheel horsepower from when the motor was dynoed by the builder, the power-to-weight ratio is 1,992/542, or 3.68 pounds per horsie...

Again, not strictly a "Cobra" topic, but I thought it might be of interest around here. I'd be curious to hear similar data from anyone who has had their car on a scale--

Bob

[Tom T.]

Awesome.

TT

[Cal Metal]

Increase the policy amount on your life insurance.........

[decooney]

snakeeyes,
thanks for posting the weight figures from your Lister. There are are few Lister fans out here. Any light weight car with V8 horsepower definitely qualifies for at least side discussion... I wonder how much the DragonSnake weighs in comparsion to your car?

A local guy here has (2) Listers, one had some early write-ups on it. The first has a Hillborn style injection/tubes and the other is SuperCharged. Crazy Fun!

That car or yours should be a handful... Have Fun!

[snakeeyes]

Thanks for the comments, and Cal, in response to your private message--no, I won't make you the beneficiary.

I was actually surprised to see the car weighed so much. If you read Beck's ads they advertise a weight of 1,800 pounds. Perhaps they have found ways to cut weight since mine--a very early production model--was made. Or maybe that's a "dry" weight. I tried to be as careful as I could when building the car to keep the weight down. The engine block, heads, intake, oil pan, water pump, and radiator are aluminum. The tranny has an aluminum case. The battery is a Dyna-batt that weighs 13 pounds, and is mounted such that neither cable is longer than about 24". The only concessions I made were in the safety department--in that I used a heavy scattershield when I could have gone with an aluminum bellhousing, but that probably added all of 30 pounds or so.

It has given me some appreciation for what race teams must go through in an effort to get their cars down to minimum weights.

The car is actually really nice to drive. The engine was built to provide power in the mid and upper ranges, rather than a ton of low-end torque, specifically because I knew I'd have traction issues. Yes, you can turn the tires to smoke with ease off the line, but by launching at 1500 rpm or so and rolling into the throttle you get just a hazing of the BFG's, and a whole lot of forward thrust. When it does break the tires loose it is extremely controllable, probably a combination of the rearward weight bias, a relatively long wheelbase, and the Corvette rear suspension. It's a fun car and I'm looking forward to getting a rollbar installed and getting it out to some open track events.

[need4speed]

This is VERY encouraging to me. I hope to have my Lister running this weekend if all goes well. Then its just carpet, seats, and finishing touches before I can get it on the road and then get the weight on mine for comparison. However, I did not go the extreme weight-savings route that you did and stuck with an iron block. I wonder if Chuck's low weight claim includes carpet and the passenger seat?

[tyfaim]

Snakeeyes, Very nice!!
Could we have some more pics of that beautiful lister?

[DKing]

The Listers at the Monterey Historics were quite impressive. Loud and fast. Two, lovely black beauties with Corvette engines. Got my heart racing.

How much for a Beck Lister roller?

-Doug

[Cal Metal]

Snakeeyes:

Take it easy on the transmission---your 30 minute warranty is just about up.

[snakeeyes]

I just took a few new pics the other day and will try to get them scanned and posted this week. Need4speed, I haven't been able to figure out what CB omitted to get his "1,800 pound" stated weight. I hope you get yours on the scale soon and post the results here so we can compare. I've been told the aluminum block saves about 85 - 90 pounds so in theory you should be just under 2100, but as I said mine was a very early car (built around '96) and Beck may have lightened things up some as he made more of them.

Oh, and please post some pics of your car, if you haven't done so! I think I saw it in Beck's latest ad and it looks stunning--

Cal, since when did you get so generous with your warranty? When you shipped me the tranny I recall you telling me that it had a 30 second guarantee...

[snakeeyes]

Need4speed can probably best answer the question about the cost of a roller, as he just bought his this year, I believe. Beck recently sold the rights to Lister production to Avanti Motors (he continues overseeing production), so I don't know if his prices have changed. Last I heard he was getting mid- to high-$20K's for a roller, if I recall correctly--

[Lew Ledyard]

Are you running a steel or an aluminum driveshaft?

[snakeeyes]

Steel. It is only about 12" long, and the driveshaft builder strongly advised me to go with steel, for its durability and relative lack of weight saving for an aluminum one due to the length involved--

[Lister Type-R]

Ed Dellis here...I drove the Beck Lister in the Cannonball One Lap of America (twice) and the SuperTuner Challenge.

When we weighed the car at SuperTuner, we had a full tank of fuel, and the spare was in the trunk (for traction). We just finished One Lap, and ran it over on the trailer to MIS for SuperTuner. I don't think we even had a chance to put a rag on the car.

This car was Beck's personal racecar, and yes, it IS a thin-bodied version sans hinges. When we ran it on the scales, it had a 388-inch iron lung: block and heads. My new motor will be an all-alloy dry-sumped Donovan, similar to snakeeyes' rig.

When Chuck tested me in the car back in '99 at Buttonwillow, the car had his Donovan sprint-car motor in it. To say it was fast, is a gross understatement...it was insane. Black stripes in all four gears. I'm hoping the new motor will be just as wicked.

To answer your question: I think to get in the 1800s you need to have magnesium wheels, slicks, an empty tank, fully alloy in the powertrain, and the light-weight body. I know I can get mine in the low 1900s, but my desire to be safely caged exceeds my quest for low numbers, so the next time that car hits the streets, the tubes will be one of many significant changes visible.

Hope that helps...

[need4speed]

Unfortunately the actual cost of a Lister roller is not that easy for me to answer. Some of this uncertainty depends on your definition of a roller and it may or may not match my definition, Avanti's, or Chuck's. The devil is in the details and you may get more or less than you expected.

Here "were" the cost details for a Beck Lister as of 1 year ago when I signed on the dotted line. I do know that the prices have gone up since the Avanti merger since Chuck had directed a potential customer to talk to me about my kit and that customer made references to most things being more expensive now. Unfortunately I did not write any of that detail down.

Pre-Avanti Beck Lister Price List:
$40,000 - Completely assembled running car with ZZ4 engine and Richmond 4-spd

$14,900 - Basic kit (unpainted body, bonded chassis, doors/trunk/hood atached, lights, windshield)

$3,000 - Suspension (Corvette C4 control arms, shortened rear axles, front coil-overs, OEM rear shocks and shortened monoleaf, machines rotors and new pads, shortened steering rack)

$350 - Clutch and brake pedal assy (3 master cylinders, balance bar, pedals)

$200 - stainless steel brake lines (hard lines and braided lines, fittings, installed)

$500 - steering (steering column, hub, and Nardi wheel)

$1500 - wheels (four 16" replica Halibrand castings)

$ 750 - tires (BFG Comp T/A)

$350 - instrument package (6 Classic Instruments gauges/senders)

$1000 - ceramic exhaust system (headers and side pipes), non-ceramic $750.

$300 - wiring harness (not sure if he will provide this, I gave up waiting and went to Painless)

$3000 - paint (painted by Avanti and includes full-length stripe)

Your best bet is to go to the Avanti web site and then contact them from there. (http://avantimotors.com/default.htm)

[need4speed]

Hi Ed,

This is Alan Blair, I contacted you about a month ago to discuss some of the interesting things that you have done to your Lister but went on vacation and unfortunately lost your phone number. I would still like to give you a call to discuss this if you are still willing. Please send me your phone number at alan.blair@intel.com.

Thanks,
Alan

[snakeeyes]

Ed, welcome to the site and thanks a bunch for your comments. Hope nobody minds a little Lister chat here on "all Cobra talk". Maybe Brent needs to give us a Beck Lister sub-forum.

Your exploits in last year's Tuner Car Shootout were pretty impressive. I looked forward eagerly to the September '03 C and D issue, only to find it contained a "Ricer Car Shootout". I thought C and D's justifications for changing the format amounted to a bunch of weak excuses that boiled down to them marketing to a younger age group, and wrote and told them as much. I hope they revert to the original format next year, and that we have some representation from this forum's members with not only Cobra and Lister entries, but perhaps a GT40 and Daytona Coupe, as well.

Ed, maybe you, Alan and I need to get on a conference call one day soon...we Lister pilots are thin on the ground...

[Lister Type-R]

Thanks for the kind words about SuperTuner...it was quite a fiasco to pull it off, esp after our One Lap effort that year. I'm not sure SuperTuner '03 was supposed to be all about "rice". While it IS an invitational event, getting the Big Boys to bring their toys can be a battle due to constant development.

Now that the light-weight car is in my possession, I'm working hard with sponsors to introduce a Type-R that fixes a lot of the car's "originalness" . At the risk of sounding self-serving: Listercorvette.com lists a few of the mods we're working on which we'll soon be offering to other owners.

Personally, I feel the car has a tremendous amount of untapped potential. Incorporating a little modern technology into the original formula is all that's needed...call it refinement. However, unless you've spent several weeks behind the wheel competing with it everyday, it can be difficult to identify, let alone fix, the car's shortcomings.

Snakeeyes you can email me at: ed@damdrivingschool.com if you want to compare build notes.