Aluminum bodies' strength - Page 2

cobrajeff · #21 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 07:29 AM

I've never owned an original Cobra, but I know a lot of people who own them, and I have worked on a few of them. Believe me, most owners of original Cobras are absolutely PARANOID about somebody denting the car just by touching it.

A friend who recently restored his 289 Cobra found that he had dented the sides of his front fenders with his knees while he was installing the headers. Believe me, he was CAREFUL while working on this car. Granted, the "paintless dent removal" guy was able to repair it, without repainting - but, with a glass body, there would have been no knee impressions in the sides of the car to start with.

The aluminium is very esoteric, but I think things are a lot simpler with fiberglass. It's very simple to push around a 'glass car in the shop - push anywhere you like. With an alloy car, you've got to tell your helpers where they can (roll bar and bumpers) and can't (everywhere else) push.

Take a look in your yellow pages, and see how many body shops in your local area advertise that they work with aluminium bodies? If you live in Provo, UT, or Southern CA, you're probably OK. Anywhere else in the country, you have to do a lot of searching to find anybody who works with aluminium. They are out there, but, I expect that shops that are competent with fiberglass probably outnumber them 10 to 1 (count the number of Corvette images in your Yellow Pages bodyshop ads to Cobra images - what? no Cobras? - well then, how about add in Ferrari images too?)

regards,

Jeff

PatBuckley · #22 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 08:28 AM

Sorry Ernie, I lumped you in with BinB - my mistake and I apologize. After I re-read your post I see that you didn't make a dumb comment this time!

Actually I don't have a CSX car - I have a Kirkham.

Pat

I think that the newer aluminum bodies (different alloy and thicker) are way more dent proof than the originals but that the reputation for denting that aluminum has, still follows it around.

I would have no problem with someone pushing my car in the same way as they pushed my ERA - usually around the tail light area.

I have spent many hours - believe me!- working on my car and leaning on the fenders with no adverse results. Not saying that aluminum is dent proof nowadays, but it ain't as bad as some would make out.

I did lower the car a little too quickly one night - and it came down onto the handle of the floor jack.....dented the aluminum. If this were a glass car the glass wold have cracked for sure. Instead is was $90 to Dent-Pro and it is good to go.

I also had a retractable extension cord get away - hit the rear fender! Dented same. I don't think that glass would have dented.

Pat

bmalone · #23 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 08:29 AM

Ernie, I don't think owning one makes a given person more knowledgeable, although it can't hurt. Many times it is discernable from a person's posts (infrequent or frequent) whether they know what they are talking about.

Specialk · #24 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 09:33 AM

Who says aluminum dents easily?

Allan A · #25 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 09:47 AM

I know that girl, wild weekend down in LV. Kris, do you have her number.

Allan

Excaliber · #26 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 11:17 AM

This "glass" vs "metal" thing for dent/crack repair has been around for awhile. As my car is glass I can tell you I worry A LOT about even gently "touching" the gaurd rails at the track while racing. I'm thinking a vey mild touch could result in a very major "crack" and a nightmare repair.

I would still worry with a metal car of course, but maybe not as much.

Pats "jack handle vs the trouble light" is an excellent example of the difference between the two bodies. The resulting damage depends largely on how the "hit" occured. I would prefer to take my chances with a metal body. Especially when it comes to "every day" use and the litte things "hits" we take in life.

Ernie

Back in Black · #27 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 01:32 PM

What about actual holes in the bare aluminum type finish? Say a puncture? How can this be fixed to new?

Pat, your opinion has been noted, and filed where appropriate.

At least the other guys here have been polite, even if they disagree with my opinion.

Jamo · #28 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 01:59 PM

Gents

I freeking lean on my car...nuff said?

The opinions here did come a mite quick...folks just trying to be helpful, no doubt. But after David pointing out why his butt is so much nicer than that hole in the ground, and most certainly Pat (who has played with his car body for nearly a year), seems to me the question has been answered. Certainly pros and cons with both materials (having lived with both), but the old wives tale about arruminum being finickie is just that...something only old women would still prooffer.

weekendwarrior · #29 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 02:11 PM

One Comment,

The aluliniumm is on the new cars is high grade MIG aircraft stuff. Think of flying through a hail storm at speed, the stuff is tough.

LateApex · #30 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 02:14 PM

I walk on the aluminum wing of my plane to get into it, and it doesn't dent!!

Not quite Jamo's size, but getting there if I hit the Bellagio buffet a little more often.

Just think of the aircraft industry and how much aluminum is used and the lack of issues they have. Also last I checked, every state in the union has several airports and aircraft repair stations so the talent to fix aluminum is out there. I am sure restoration houses, Ferrari dealers, etc could point someone to many good sources for repair. Also, these dent wizards that are out there are amazing in what they can make disappear.

PatBuckley · #31 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 02:48 PM

But I WAS being polite. I am always polite - aren't I?

I was just asking a question.....

Pat

David Kirkham · #32 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 06:25 PM

BB,

I once had one of our guys accidently put a fork lift tine THROUGH the rear fender of one of our cars. 2 hours later, it was impossible to tell anything had ever happeded to the car. Had it been fiberglass, it would have obviously shattered the rear quarter panel. Holes are no big deal--remember, the car is welded together.

Unhappy customers with aluminum...

Like I said, I have only seen our cars dented when severely abused.

David

Specialk · #33 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 07:07 PM

David,

You seem to be confusing glass with fiberglass. One of the Shelby spec racers tagged a wall HARD and it did not shatter. I think you overstate how tough it is to repair fiberglass, while you understate how difficult it is to repair aluminum.

None of this is ment as a slam, just I believe each material has it's merits.

Back in Black · #34 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 07:31 PM

Let me first say that I love your cars, and that the aluminum looks great. If I ever buy another cobra yours would be at the top of the list, And maybe they really are a whole new cobra animule

OK, so your experts in the shop there can fix such problemos.. I assume thru welding up the hole with extra metal, and then reducing to original shape.. what about the poor schmuck stuck in Alamagordo , N.M. with a big crunch and a ripped fender? I don't imagine there are very many MIG workers there! Although I bet the Polish former MIG guys you have imported to work at your shop are really good at that stuff! Do you offer roadside assistance?

( Just trying for a little levity here

)

Turk · #35 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 08:09 PM

LateApex,
Isn't the aircraft wing supported with wing spars every so many inches? I also think places you could step on, are kind a flat and well backed.
Whereas the cars have so many compound curves and dent so easily. It is pretty tough to step on the leading edge of your airplane I would guess.
Some aircraft have "NO STEP" decals for a reason.

TURK

Turk · #36 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 08:17 PM

I am not talking about the molecular make up of the alloy here. Basic common sense comparisons would suffice.

If someone leans into your car door with their knee, which one would dent the easiest. Glass or alloy?
When you are working on your car, your elbows will do enough damage to an alloy car if you are not careful, that it will be "more practical to replace the entire body rather than try to repair the dents."
In the hands of craftsman it may very well be easier to make aluminum repairs. I am not arguing that./ What I am arguing is which one dents easier.

Take a look at the rear deck of some of our cars. The aluminum ones will be easy to spot.
I still like the look of the alloy.

When folks walk up and start thumping on our cars with their bare knuckles to see if they are glass or alloy, why do most of us go into a coronary attack if we have an aluminum car? I didn't have that problem when I had a fiberglass car.

Most damage we sustain is not the kind that happens at the track.
I am talking about in our own garages, at car shows, leaning pushing dropping small items while we are working on them.

Is it everyone's understanding that aluminum is immune to above mishaps and if something happens they are easier to fix than glass?
I don't think so.
I have a spatula in my garage but don't own an English Wheel.

TURK

LateApex · #37 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 09:10 PM

Turk, you are correct, there are many "do not step" placcards depending on where you are and the underlying skeleton (wing spars and runners in this case) are critical...so is the frame on a Cobra. I was trying to point out that the aviation industry uses aluminum extensively and is very happy with it. It is much thinner guage than what Kirkham uses and holds up well. I am not a metallurgist, but I agree with Jamo, it's rep is worse than it actually is. It also highlights some out of the box thinking for repair as well. It also points out that the underlying structure is a very important "mate" to the skin.

So how is that 'glass boat of yours?

Turk · #38 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 10:40 PM

It is all dented up!

I have been sanding it , but it won't look anything like Pat's car.

LateApex · #39 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 10:59 PM

Keep sanding, I swear you will hit aluminum eventually!

Who is Pat?

Jamo · #40 (**permalink**) 09-01-2003, 01:31 AM

Who is Pat?