Truth in Ebay advertising

750hp · #1 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 01:15 AM

Why is it that people feel it's necessary to mislead buyers when placing their Cobra on Ebay?

Is the vehicle a genuine Shelby model?
If not, take a leaf out of Kirkham's book and list it under Kit Cars.

Was the vehicle manufactured in the 1960's?
If not, why list it as a 1965 model?

There is a category listing for Replica/Kit vehicles. Isn't it ironic that Kirkham (the most period correct, authentic looking replicas available), are one of only a few that list their cars in the correct category.

The CSX Shelby owners have a legitimate right to list their cars under Make: Shelby, but even that's not enough for some..... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6465 Ok, here's a newly manufactured CSX4000 series car. Why then is it listed as being manufactured in 1965? Advertising the car as "THIS IS A REAL SHELBY in the Shelby registry One of 251 built in the world" would make many believe that it's a "genuine" one, not merely a "real" one. There you go Evan, I've opened the door for you to comment if you want.

Have I turned into a Shelby snob (without even owning one), or do others think that the advertising listings are misleading and deceptive?

boxhead · #2 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 02:42 AM

I agree that I find it odd that a brand new car could be registered as a 1965 model, I am pretty sure you cannot do that in Australia.

Excaliber · #3 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 03:37 AM

The problem as I see it is:

The Ad is "accurate" but not "truthful", there is a difference. I beleive the Ad has every right to be in the Shelby area, it IS a "real" Shelby Cobra. It DOES have a CSX number. It IS in the registry. It IS a continuation series car patterened after the 1965 year model. Ah,,,,theres the rub, it was NOT made in 1965!

It is not likely a serious buyer would complete the transaction under the false assumption this was really an original 1965 car. To many clues as to it's TRUE status are IN the Ad all ready. The CSX4000 series number and being one of 251 registered are "clues".

IF the transaction WERE completed with the buyer ASSUMING this to be an original Cobra built in 1965 he might later on have a case for "fraud". Thus, the E-Bay is just plain STUPID as written, but it is also "accurate".

Ernie

750hp · #4 (**permalink**) 09-01-2003, 12:32 AM

Ernie - no, I still don't think that the ad is even accurate. If the CSX4000 guys can't acept that their car is a 2002 / 2003 model, then they're kidding themselves. While Shelby (and Kirkham, ERA, Hi Tech, Contemporary etc) have largely based their cars on the general shape of the 60's, they are not, and can never be, 1960s manufactured cars. They are new cars, and should be listed as such.

Anyway, if someone did end up buying a "1965" CSX4000 car for $100,000+ thinking they got a steal, maybe they got what they deserve. A fool and his money...

Excaliber · #5 (**permalink**) 09-01-2003, 01:42 AM

The year model can be a tricky thing for a Cobra owner. Agreed that the Ad should state the year of BUILD and the year it "re-creates" to be accurate AND truthful.

When the "fool" makes his purchase the question in court may well be: Is the Ad "without malice"? Absense of which makes the statements "accurate" while not neccessarily "truthful". It is at once, a lie but not a lie!

But that is, after all, WHY we have lawyers!

Ernie

750hp · #6 (**permalink**) 09-01-2003, 03:40 AM

.... and when you have a lawyer with his own CSX4000 series car, it makes it all the more interesting

David Kirkham · #7 (**permalink**) 09-01-2003, 09:37 AM

Craig,

I am sure you have noticed we list our cars as 1964, 65 etc. This is the ONLY choice ebay will let us have. If you list the car as a 2003, it is impossible to put in our vin number. They must have a list of the currently registered federal vin numbers. Of course, ours doesn't match so they will not let us list it as a 2003. If you list it as a 1965, they will let you list whatever vin number you want.

We have contaced ebay repeatedly about the problem. We really like ebay so we are not complaining. I am sure they are a really big company with more to do than listen to us.

Obviously, we are not trying to decieve anyone as our ad says the car was made in Poland, new, just like the one's we sell to Shelby, (specifically NOT to confuse our car with a Shelby), etc. Any suggestions?

As for people listing their car as a Shelby/whatever,...

I think people should list their cars as what they are. Nevertheless, many kit cars have been listed as a "Shelby Replica" for decades in the for sale columns. The problem is not new.

David

Excaliber · #8 (**permalink**) 09-01-2003, 11:08 AM

David,
Your Ad's are always clear about what the car is, truthful AND accurate. Interesting about the VIN number issue on e-bay. I don't see that as a problem (listing the car as a 1965) the way your Ad's are written. But I see where it can "open the door" for some Ad's to be confusing at best!

Ernie

750hp · #9 (**permalink**) 09-02-2003, 12:47 AM

David,
Thanks for the info about the year listings. That explains a lot.

To be honest though, I hadn't even noticed the year listings in your advertisements. I don't get around to reading your descriptions straight away, because I just rush on down to the pics of your billet suspension. Once I have had my fix of KMP artistry, I'm spent!!!

David Kirkham · #10 (**permalink**) 09-02-2003, 12:51 PM

Craig,

Thanks for the kind words. We work hard to make nice cars.

Are you the same 750hp who has been bidding on the stainless car on ebay? It would be nice to have one down under. It would even give me an excuse to go there with my kids. They constantly bug me to go to the "Land of the Crocodile Hunter." They want to go there WAY more than they are interested in going to Poland.

My walls are full of pictures of:

Top fuel dragsters
SR-71 Blackbirds
Chooo, Chooo trains
P-51 Mustangs
Salt water crocodiles
King brown snakes
black widows
trap door spiders
etc.

Thanks,

David

750hp · #11 (**permalink**) 09-02-2003, 10:08 PM

David - I would hope your children find Australia more appealing than Poland!

I live about an hour from Steve (the Crocodile Hunter's) house and zoo. Let me know if they'd like a signed photo or shirt.

I did bid on the stainless chassis, but there are currently 5 guys who have more to spend than me. I will own one of your cars, let there be no doubt. It's just a matter of when. I know EXACTLY the specs that it'll be - down to the last nut and bolt. I've been planning it for a while now

rdorman · #12 (**permalink**) 09-03-2003, 03:42 PM

My car is a '66, just look at the title

Rick

David Kirkham · #13 (**permalink**) 09-03-2003, 09:19 PM

Craig,

My kids are watching Steve's video "Crocodile Hunter" right now. (Just heard another "Crikey" from the TV room.) I think it might be the first CD on the planet to be worn out from watching it too many times. If it would have been a video, it would have died long ago. Even my 2 year old knows it by heart.

My kids would do anything to get a signed hat, shirt, whatever. Heck, I even want one! Steve is the coolest. I look at all those other wannabe biologists with big sticks to catch snakes and have to laugh. I even saw Jeff Corwin once back down from catching a King Cobra. I am sure in 2 minutes Steve would have been petting him saying, "Isn't he gorgeous?"

Maybe one day we will get Steve into one of our cars

Now that would be cool.

I digress,

I REALLY want to get a car down under. We have cars all over Europe, Canada, Mexico, Saudia Arabia, Japan, and the US. Would LOVE to get one in your little corner of the world. What kind of car are you looking for? I would certainly be interested in your thoughts and opinions on our cars and what you options/etc you prefer. How do we get them imported? How do I get to see a Great White Shark? How do I get to see a salt water croc?

David

Excaliber · #14 (**permalink**) 09-03-2003, 09:30 PM

,,,and how do you keep an Aussie from dropping a Chev engine in it? Now thats the REAL question! LOL

Ernie

Bill Kesner · #15 (**permalink**) 09-03-2003, 11:08 PM

Back to the topic.......

Craig, your absolutely correct as to this misleading and inaccurate ebay ad. I emailed the seller to retract the bogus " 1 of only 251 ever built" as deception. Some people have no clue on how to be honest when selling.

I just read an SPF ad on ebay, and the owner states that the car is accurate in every detail...Huh? What happened to honesty??

- Bill -

750hp · #16 (**permalink**) 09-04-2003, 07:23 AM

David - when it happens, it's going to be a ghost-striped 289FIA hybrid screamer with a 398 cube, avgas sucking SVO small block motor, G-Force GF5R straight cut non-synchro racing trans, all the customary bilet suspension and a permanently mounted set of road-racing semi slick tires. The Kinsler injection tubes are tucked up nicely inside the hoodscoop. There's no carpet, leather or vinyl anywhere, and the sound coming from the exhaust cracks like only a high comp race motor can.

Thoughts and opinions on your cars? Hey - you guys set the standard. Enough said...

How to get it into the country? The devil's in the details. Many, many hurdles to overcome, but nothing's impossible.

I'll be going past Australia Zoo in the next few days. I'll call ahead to make sure that Steve's there. It'd be nice to get his actual signature on the shirts / hats. Sharks and Croc sightings? Come on over!!!

Ernie - Chevs and Lexus'.... It's almost like the Ford motors have been forgotten over here

The new motors aren't "period correct", but they make a lot of sense when trying to adhere to our very strict government transport legislation.

ac andy · #17 (**permalink**) 09-06-2003, 09:41 PM

We havent all forgotten Ford motors Craig, some of us are just using bigger ones than others!

Andy.