Being from South Africa doesn't make someone Superformance

[Dan Semko]

Dream Master,
I am fortunate in that I enjoy the privilege of owning BOTH a Superformance and a CSX. In addition, I have had excellent dealer service and maintained a good rapport for several years.

If you are stating that Superformance has not experienced similar problems with their customer base, I believe that you are incorrect. Want me to name a few? Your continued stabbing at Shelby American is unprofessional and certainly NOT exemplary of the Superformance philosophies. I know several SPF dealers and they have avoided this type of internet interaction because they know that it is unbecoming of their marque and because they realize that they will be subjected to a public roasting.
You should be just about well done about now. Come on Doug, what the hell are you trying to accomplish?


__________________

[Jamo]

Sure doesn't sound like the Jim Price I met.

Rosen's successful because he talks about what he has to offer. I've had about the same experience as Turk with Ron, most recently at the Historics.

Funny thing, the Gasholes hosted a nice little reception during the Fling...at the lake and later on the patio of a local eatery along with our buddies, the Capital gang. Mssrs. Price, Rosen, Tom Kirkham and Bob Marsh all having a great time together talking with Cobra lovers/owners (Mr. Smith was obviously tied up with the Fling/CF formalities or we would've had him with us as well). Amazing how these gentlemen can all break bread with each other and good friends without stabbing each other in the back.

Certainly the reason can't be the pleasing personalities of the Gasholes and the Capital Gang!

[mrmustang]

Let's face it here folks, it's all about the mighty dollar. Shelby in this case could not win in court, so he'll take his own business savvy and beat them in the marketplace.................... I think the major problem here is that the (SPF, ERA, FFR,Back Draft, etc) business people who are currently selling them are really worried about the competition they are soon going to face. Imagine if you will the major damage that the new CSX4000 offerings are going to have on those kits in the same price range. Imagine if you will the major "trickle down" effect this will have on the entire industry. I can think of a number of ways that this will not only effect new Cobra replica sales, but the used market as well. Each owner who is looking to sell something now (myself included) will now have to re-price their vehicles far lower in order to sell them. The market will not handle a "real" $50,000-$56,000 new CSX continuation car, and a (insert any other name brand here) $50,000+ "used" Cobra market any longer. Will we see the bottom drop out in regards to pricing? Will the current lineup of manufacturers annoy their own loyal clients by having to dramatically drop their own prices to compete in this new market? Will the dealers get caught in the middle having to backpedal on cars they just took contracts on (at a far lower price and market point) as the rest of the market settles more than the stock market and national employment rate? As usual, only time will tell..................


Just my own two cents worth on this subject...........


Bill S.

[LateApex]

I agree with you mrmustang. Also, just think, if Shelby had spent there efforts from the get go on doing this strategy instead of the litigation approach where they could be!

[mrmustang]

I disagree with the litigation....Do you know just how many times he made it in to the news..In print, online, television, CNN, MSNBC, etc....Do you know how much free publicity that got him and his company.Shrewd to say the least..............

Bill S.

Originally posted by LateApex


I agree with you mrmustang. Also, just think, if Shelby had spent there efforts from the get go on doing this strategy instead of the litigation approach where they could be!

[casaleenie]

[quote]Originally posted by Excaliber

My suspicions have been confirmed. The SPF organization has an ego bigger than a bored and stroked 460. I keep hearing what a great car they are. I've seen them up close, looked them over carefully and thought to myself, "I don't see what the big deal is."


Ernie,

I think you've hit it on the head.... They make a nice car but jeez,
"I don't see what the big deal is"... Wait till the Japanese enter the fray....You'll hear some crying then....

[Turk]

misfit41

Brent from Shelby has responded to the concerns of some about the future of S.A.S.A (I made that name up....cute huh?). South African Shelby Automobiles in another thread. Since there are others in here who have similar concerns,Brent asked me to re-post his response in here as well, hoping it will go a long way to answer bunch of unasked questions.

"All,
I am sorry for the delay in getting a posting out, we have been in the process of moving the entire Cobra operation into the new facility and I have not had much spare time.

Let me start by saying that I will do my best to answer questions pertaining to the import Cobra vehicles, however I am not here to defend SAI or Carroll Shelby because the record speaks for itself. Over the course of the last 6 1/2 years we have taken orders and deposits on aprox 410 Cobra component vehicles and to this date have not left anyone standing out in the cold without the product they contracted for. This is not to say that we have not run into issues that had to be worked through on some occassions but we have never screwed any customer out of their deposit.

CSX4750 which is slated as the sample vehicle has left the manufacturing plant and is on it's way to the airport to be transported to the Las Vegas facility. This is actually the second vehicle to be completed at the South African facility, the first being the mule that was used for development and testing purposes and slated to remain in SA indefinately.

As far as pictures of the completed vehicles, work in process and the assembly facility we do prefer for the product to speak for itself after it's arrival on the 15th. We have plenty of orders in process and do not feel we need to push for more contracts and deposits through the use of media that would most likely lead to other unjust alligations.

We are producing CSX4000 component vehicles in South Africa through a joint venture with a reputable partner. Neither I nor Carroll Shelby have any reason what-so-ever to believe this venture will be anything less than a long and fruitful relationship that will benefit SAI as well as Cobra lovers world wide.

R Brent Fenimore"

TURK

[mrmustang]

Turk,

I knew that they would back this up 100%. As usual, (my favorite saying), only time will tell.


Bill S.

[HIQ]

Funny that some would question SAI on its ability to deliver a car. Even with all the issues they had getting the Series1 out the door no one was left high and dry. It was not smooth, but everyone got what they paid for (or at least what they agreed upon)

[bvega]

Well everyon I am the first person to buy the South African CSX's and my vin should be CSX 4751, 4750 being Mr. Shelby's car. After driving both cars at the monterey historics I can tell you that they handled almost identically even though the shelbys have a BBF in them. Also the fiberglass job was superior on the CSX cars, you could tell by feeling the lip under the wheel wells. Steel tube frames are always stronger than square tube, and they did make improvements to a few things that customers had complained about.

The CSX cars come with a bigger FUEL CELL instead of a cheap regular gas tank and after all it is an authentic shelby and it is only about $4000 more than the SPF including comparable options. So we drove both and decided that the $4000 premium was worth it and we have had excellent treatment from SAI.

CAV makes great cars and Shelby was wrong to sue SPF. So he is attacking them in the marketplace and HE WILL START TO DOMINATE. After all, the truth everyone knows is that if all of you replica guys had the extra $25-30k to spend you would have chosen CSX. Now that they are close in price, there is know question.

I cant wait to get my car

In previous years you could get the CSX for $40K but it did not include the expensive paint job and wheels and tires and a few other pricey things making SPF the true best bang for the buck.

All that has changed now and SPF better be worried. That is just my .02. I drove both and decided to go with the shelby. Certain aspects of the CSX are just better than the SPF. The only great thing about the SPF is that you can put a cheaper to build SBF instead of the hard to build BBF. Other than that it is just about money.

Anyway I just hope to be able to enjoy my CSX with all cobra guys whether they are SPF, ERA, ...etc.

[foothills gary]

Casaleenie,your comment about the Japanese getting into the Cobra Bidness gave me the shivers!Imagine a Cobra with all wheel drive,4 wheel steering.six speeds,1000 dependable hosses,and unprecedented fit,finish,and reliability(a la Skyline GTR)We might even get right hand drive!They may even come in below 39.9k.Maybe every manufacturer should start to feel uneasy.

[ToyCollector]

I'd be shaking Gary...if it was a mass market.

[Durt]

Just curious ... how many 'genuine' Shelby Cobras is this guy going to crank out before the market bottoms out lower than his esteem?
His scrawl is becoming about as valuable as a Jerry Lumpe autographed baseball.
How much is enough, Carroll?

[Turk]

Durt,
I would hope he would crank out as many as he can!
He is not the one interested in the collectibility of these cars, WE are.
How many SPFs were produced to date?

Last thing a manufacturer is going to worry about is flooding the market and driving the used Cobra market down. Why would they care?

If SPF had only built 14 cars to date, I bet they would be really really special. I think they built in the thousands. They would be broke, but the cars would be special.

What is this, a concern for the CSX owners or a concern for the rest.
I am not worried at all.

There will be no more Cobras sold than they are today. Just that there will be fewer sold by other manufacturers , if the new entry is a good one.
I said "IF".
If it is not, it won't matter, you and I will be safe. Until that is established, sleep lightly.

TURK

[computerworks]

Originally posted by Durt
Just curious ... how many 'genuine' Shelby Cobras is this guy going to crank out before the market bottoms out lower than his esteem?
...How much is enough, Carroll?

Durt, I think I understand what you are saying..but I don't understand your view of the situation.

This is not a grumpy old guy in his attic, scheming and plotting to get even...

..SAI is a company, in business, to make component vehicles, to sell and make a profit, today and tomorrow. What is wrong with that?

To answer your question, "..how many more?"...
it's a simple answer: as long as there are customers wanting the product and as long as the product can be sold at a profit.

That's the way my company works; that's the way all companies work. No emotion there... it's strictly business.

Originally posted by Durt

His scrawl is becoming about as valuable as a Jerry Lumpe autographed baseball.
..How much is enough, Carroll?

At every event I have seen CS at a signing table...the alloted time was totally filled with people seeking his signature.
Autographs can have all sorts of values placed on them....some monetary, some sentimental. Celebrities will continue to sign autographs for fans as long as they are sought out for their signature. Why bash over that?

[Turk]

Hotcobra,

You can send the digital camera to me.

I don't believe for a moment you are just someone who happened to come across this thread and felt comfortable enough within 2 posts to be so sarcastic.

Who are you really?

Since you did ask, and promised to send in your camera for some pictures I thought I will take you up on your offer.

My guess, I won't get the camera or ever hear from you again, not under the current user name"hotcobra".

How does one go about acquiring a digital camera for $50.00?

Here are the pictures, since you asked so nicely!


TURK

[Excaliber]

I'd stand in line for a C.S. signature!

One of the things I like about my Excalibur is:

It's car #33 of less than a 150 built! I think thats kind of cool. Until I need parts, then I'm bummed there not in business anymore! You can't have it both ways!

Ernie

[Turk]

Engine compartment.

[Turk]

Suspension, steering.

[Durt]

Turk - it just flat out burns my biscuits that reputable, quality companies like ERA who have been building terrific Cobra replicas for years longer than Shelby did his originals are under assault by a guy who couldn't put them out of business in the courts, so he's decided to leverage his name to price them out of business - with a company he has absolutely no stake in other than his well worn signature.
This is a millionaire many times over who's engaged in a holy war against an industry that he once had zero interest in.
If he wants to market Kirkham cars with his name on them, hey, great. They're the best in the world.
But I can not accept that this current foray into the open marketplace is anything other than a vendetta.
As far as what it's doing to the value of my SPF is irrelevant. I like my car, I didn't buy it as an investment and as I said earlier, am no cheerleader for the company.
I simply regard CS as a ruthless opportunist spending his waning years engaged in endeavors unbecoming someone who should be resting on his laurels. As I said - how much is enough?
Durt