AC enters the fray

[G.R.]

I got badges "don' need no stinkin' badges" replaced mine with SPF MARK III badges like on the new cars---I'll keep the "Cobra" badges -- for old times sake

[SPEEDEAMON]

This has been an entertaining thread. Sometime ago someone on this thread in England claimed the value of a COB is the same as a CSX. Well, I must be the most recent buyer of a COB since I ourchased COB 6132 last June. Although my chassis is a '68 AC long wheel base ordered by Paramount films, it was shortened by Brian Angliss and an aluminium body created from original AC bucks installed in the early eighties by him. I only paid half as much as a CSX. I refer to my Cobra as an AC Cobra, not a Shelby Cobra. Yet everything on it is quite the same as a Shelby Cobra, just like many replicas are quite similar. In fact I have seen Carroll's signature on replicas, so he must have thought it was okay. Mine has an AC vehicle identification plate, not a Shelby. In the beginning there were no replicas because they were cheap enough. Cobras are attractive cars and the sexy body appeals to both men and women. But as production stopped and availability got scarce, prices started to go up and affordability dictated the feasibility of a replica financially profitable for someone to build one. Let's face it, there are more replicas out there than the real thing. So who cares as long as we're all enjoying the same thing.

[Excaliber]

I would not feel right haveing C.S. sign my "Excalibur". I love my Excal and am a big fan of Shelby for his work and his legend. There are many things I would like to have his signature on too!

The Excal, as good as it is, is to far from "original" specs for me to consider it worthy of his signature.

A COB? Heck yeah, any COB in my opinion!

There are many recreations of the Cobra made in various parts of the world that are also worthy. But not all, (in my opinion).

I look to the "standard", 1962 to 1967. I accept my "short comings", or in the case of my Excal should I say my "over reach"? LOL For me, to have some kind of "replica" is far better than to have none!

Ernie

[REAL 1]

Current COBs are Cobras to me. Period. My references are limited strictly to legal recognition.

CSXs and COBs regardless of year of manufacture are, at least to me both entitled to be referred to as Cobras because they both have enough of the original heritage and bloodline.

[Great Asp]

Evan,

Since Jim Price owns AC, there is a rumor that all SPF's will be grand fathered to have COB numbers!

We will have so much in common, You own a Cobra, I own a Cobra.............sweet!

Eric

[REAL 1]

See what happens when I try and be conciliatory. Give an inch and they take a mile.

[Great Asp]

Evan,

No worries, I still can not attend the annual "Shelby owners suspension swap picnic". Since my SPF has "non-swapable" suspension.

Now I have less in common!

Eric

[pderouss]

Evan.

I'm way late in replying to your questions as my day job has been quite hectic recently. The good news is that the day job did allow me to look at and drive some nice cars.

I asked you for some facts on the assertation that a COB and a CSK have differing values and you replied with "recollections". When I get some time I will check the auction records to see what the facts are as you may well be right.

In the spirit on good will that seems to be creeping in to this thread I have to say that if I come to live in the US again I will probably buy a left hand drive SAI to enjoy while I'm there.

Now back to the noraml banter:-

The guy who suggests that a Mustang may be worth $100,0000 is probably an extreme optimist as the recent offer prices are well documented and don't even get close.

Your suggestion that Aces may be reaching high values because of there connection with the Cobra is interesting as most of the Ace owners I have met are very distainfull towards the Cobra. They view it as a brash adaptation that ruined a well balanced car and are therefore are unlikely to pay a premium for the association.

Speademon. Did you buy Udo Kruse's old car as I know he was planning to sell it last year? If so did you know that there is a piece devoted to it in the AC Heritage book? As to it's value it is bound to sell for less than a "original" original (COB or CSX) as the ancestry is well known. This is not intended as a slur as in my view Angliss's recreations on the Paramount chassis are a perfect rendition of what a 427 is all about.

[REAL 1]

pderouss: Why thank you old chap for your kind words. Please do let me know what your inquiry discloses there old boy. Jolly good.

Now back to normal banter:

I was given the figures from some members of the Mustang Club of America as to the value of a pristine example of a GT 500. This is just what I've been told. I'm sure but not positive that the value of a GT350R must be way up there, maybe in the $80,000 range.

While I suspect that most Ace owners are distainful of Cobras and see them in a less than positive light all I can say is I would suggest they feel that way because they are stuck with an Ace instead of a Cobra.

Ask 10 auto enthusiasts which if given the chance they would prefer to own and Ace or a Cobra and I feel very confident that 10 out of 10 will opt for the Cobra. No contest.

One is a legend. The other an antique.

[pderouss]

Evan.

I am not too familiar with the current New Joisey vocabulary as I havn't been there for a few years so won't be able to match your linguistic skills. You clearly have an extensive knowledge of how English should be spoken - I presume you must have once watched a 1950's comedy film.

If you want an accurate view of Shelby Mustang prices I suggest you go to www.geocities.com/eskoufos/shelbyprices.html. You will see that most cars are offered at well below 80k. Bear in mind that offer prices are rarely met.

I totally agree that the vast majority of sane people (and even more insane ones) would prefer a Cobra over an Ace. The only point I was making is that Ace buyers are unlikely to pay more for their cars because of the association. They appeal to an entirely different type of person. Some people prefer understatement to overstatement in cars - just as some people would prefer to be with a demure librarian rather than a blowsy blonde barmaid. It often takes more skill to get the best out of the former while the latter will perform for anyone.

[REAL 1]

Eh, is you suggest'n dat us Joisey guys ave sum sorta funny accent?

Takes one to know one.

BTW you can keep the libriarian the Blowsy blonde bar maid sounds like she'd be more fun! Yeah baby, yeah!

[pderouss]

Evan.

You should be more ambitious. Why not have both?

[REAL 1]

Hmmm. You know your are right!

[SPEEDEAMON]

pderouss,

My COB 6132 was sold by Brian Angliss to Armin Eigelsreiter in 1982, residing in Austria at the time. I am the second owner. The transaction was handled by BULLA, a dealer in Vienna, Austria. Brian Angliss purchased the chassis from David Watson of Paramount Pictures. I have certification from Michael Bulla to that effect as well as from AC in regards to the chassis. It had 2800 miles and looks brand new, except for some wear and tear over the years. The build quality is immaculate with almost perfect panel fit. Aluminium body with hand rubbed lacquer.

I would sure like to talk to Brain Angliss, though to ask him about the car.


Shin

[pderouss]

Speedeamon. Beautifull looking car. Udo's is Blue and slightly racier (quicklifts, external oit filler etc). I wonder what happened to the other three Paramount cars. If my memory serves me correctly they were used in the film Monte Carlo or Bust - so you can see your car on celluloid though you will not recognise it!

I agree about the quality of the AC/Autokraft workmanship, especially the paint. Everyone always compliments the paint on mine as it has tremendous smoothness and depth - brought about by having 12 hand rubbed coats to get there. I am not sure where Brian is now but you may be able to get some information on your car from Mark Warren who is the Corporate Affairs and Service Manager at AC Autokraft. I presume he is still there (last saw him in Nov 2002) but things change quite fast in that organisation. His e mail address is:- markwarren@acautokraft.co.uk

[Mark IV]

....had the license from FoMoCo to use the "Cobra" trademark in all but the North American markets until June 2002. At that time Ford withdrew the license without comment. I understand from sources in both orginazations that the withdrawal (Websters: How Texans talk) was caused in part by the then current ownership and management at AC plus the fact that Ford wants to "rest" the trademark before possibly using themselves once more.

BTW, the license of the Cobra trademark to AC goes back to the mid 1980's when Ford granted Autokraft the use, this rolled over to AC when Brian Angliss purchased AC and then Ford bought in. When Ford wanted to liquidate AC, Angliss fought them and amazingly won. The reason Ford would not allow use of the trademark in North America was due to product liability issues and the inability of AC/Autokraft to secure products liability insurance that named Ford Motor Company as additional insured! No company wanted to have Ford on policy as it was too tempting a target for a large claim. I know this first hand as I was involved in the search and results for the insurance. We would have loved to have used the "Cobra" trademark on the car in the market where it had the greatest meaning and impact! But it was not to be......

I would not argue that the cars AC and Autokraft built for other markets with the "Cobra" logos and name are anything but "Cobra"....just not old ones!

Rick

[SPEEDEAMON]

Pderouss, Thank you for your compliment. I found out from another thread that Brain Angliss is on the Isle of Guernsey, retired now with his motorcycle collection wherever that may be and that he had left AC in 1996 or so on unfriendly terms.

As far as my car, Paramount Films ordered four chassis' from AC in 1968. All were shipped to Rome for the movie. The first two chassis were used but the last two, COB 6131 and COB 6132 were not used. I believe COB 6131 was built into a RHD twin turbo monster by Rod Leach (COB1) and still resides with him in your neck of the woods. Mine therefore is the last chassis built by the orginal AC factory and purchased by Brian Angliss.

Shin

[AC Cobra]

According to AutoWeek The first carbon fiber bodied AC Ace is on its way. Here's AutoWeek news brief:

(08:30 Oct. 15, 2003)
Car News briefs: AC Ace coming from Shelby, AC

By AUTOWEEK

Ace in the hole
A carbon fiber-bodied AC Ace with U.S.-supplied power will be the first fruit of the recently announced alliance between Carroll Shelby and British nameplate AC (AW, Oct. 6). Rolling chassis of the two-seaters with steel-tube space frames will be shipped to the States, where Shelby’s engineers will install an engine and gearbox, mirroring the deal that created the original Cobra. This time around, though, the rolling chassis will be built on the Mediterranean island of Malta, where AC is due to open a satellite factory Nov. 15.

Rick

[CSX 4027]

So you mean he tooling up RudSpeed 2.6 6cyls???

[nikbj68]

Originally posted by REAL 1

Who is considered the original manufacturer of the original Cobras? (forget who fabricated the chasis and body prior to completion) Shelby American or AC? The manufacture Id plates all say Shelby American CSX****. I believe SAI is considered the original manufacturer.....
I think there is nothing wrong with choosing an AC. Its an awesome car with a great heritage and forever linked with the Cobra and it is made by the same company that made the body and chasis for Shelby originally. Had I not bought a Shelby I would certainly consider an AC.

I just wanted to chip in with this point. AC or Shelby, whatever the Chassis plate says, from `62 to `67 these cars were produced side by side, at the same time, on the same production line, complete apart fom engine/box.(Flip-top + Coupe`s excepted....although the Chassis`did come from Thames Ditton!)
It appears to me they only became "AC`s" or "Shelbys" depending on which side of the pond you stood.(I recall reading that ALL cars were delivered to SAI with AC badges & Chassis plates, and that to this day somewhere in Venice there is a big cardboard box full of Badges & chassis plates.......but can you believe everything you read? )
You cannot say either is more 'real' or 'original' than the other....they ARE each other.
Regarding values, it is a hard call to make,and varies from vehicle to vehicle, depending on history, notoriety,provenance etc. You cannot compare the value of a 427 S/C to an AC mk111, the cars don`t compare. In the same way, the Ex Le Mans Cobra CS2131 recently sold for in excess of $600,000. How many Shelby 289 mk1 or mk11`s do that? No. it is the history in that case.

[b]Back to the thread title![b]
AC enters the fray. What`s happening now? I read in Quentin Wilson`s column in the Sunday Mirror,12th Oct 2003 that AC will build composite bodies& ship to Shelby for Engine fitting. Now this seems inaccurate to what we all know, but what I really want to know is what`s happening regards the Frimley factory closure, Jim Price/Alan Lubinsky/Carroll Shelby collaborations & IS THERE REALLY a MALTA FACTORY?