AC enters the fray

[Bud Man]

When David Wagner began to import several AC Mk III's (thats the 427 variant in Limey terms) in the mid '90's the original plans were to use the CSX prefix. About half way through production this was abruptly changed to COX, because whether or not the prefix was "active" they were forced, apparently by SAI, to reconsider using it, and reconsider they did. Sounds like the price came down a bit....they were going for about $100K a few years ago.

If these newest gliders are anything like the earlier ones, they are a beautiful thing to behold.

Bud

[Hal Copple]

I have never much followed the distinction of this or that modern Shelby car. I just drive my Replica, wipe off more bugs, and go out again.

Sometimes i wonder if all this Shelby distinction talk is about
"contusion" cars anyway. After all, such wounds often involve pain and blood-letting, as do discussions here on CC, so i pretty much pay it no 'tension.

[brentfenimore]

All,

I think you should all know that AC is not owned by James Price or Superformance. This is directly from the actual owners of AC. I think they will be intrested to find out that Mr. Price has claimed ownership of their company. I will get back to this after I get a word from them on what type of response they would like to give.

R Brent Fenimore

[AC Cobra]

AC Cars has been producing these cars all along with limited production. They most likely will retain their aluminum bodied product as the AC 427 MKIII. Production of the vehicles are still produced to original specification off the original jigs and tooling.

Production of AC’s carbon-fiber Cobra look-alike, the CRS, should have been on the market as well. It was announced as being available

Last year AC Motor Holding Ltd. (Malta based company) came to the rescue by taking ownership od AC Cars with a financial package from VW Financial Services, an Australian arm of VW.

Does that mean you could call it an AC Bug?

Rick

[Excaliber]

,,,I think my heads gonna explode,,,

Looking forward to Brent F. shedding some more light on the Price, SuperPerfomance, AC (dis-) connection.

Ernie

[Dan Semko]

Evan,
When Jim Price purchased the AC rights , he bought it including paying all of their past debts, lock, stock and barrel INCLUDING the Registry, so your assumption that the cars produced and delivered from AC couldn't "legally" have a CSX designation is incorrect. Remember, the original cobras were produced from AC but the very first cobra
opportunity that was presented to Shelby was from the Mabee Brothers and though it wasn't called a "cobra" it's shape, design, and power was ALL the result of the Mabee ideas.
The original Mabee vehicle is being restored about 20 miles from where I reside and the restorers have both of the original engines including the one that set the land speed record.

Brent,
your information source is incorrect. The only AC cars that will be coming from that factory will be under the watchful eyes of Jim Price. Guaranteed!

[BANDIT 1]

Evan:

I think you have it all wrong, AC was producing the Cobra (before it was called the Cobra...) before Shelby came along. It is fact that Shelby contacted AC about putting a Ford V-8 in the AC car. How does this make AC the "contractor"? I think that would make Shelby the "contractor". It is no different than the Shelby situation were he is working with Ford on the GT.

[Excaliber]

LOL,,,,,, AC was just another supplier (contractor) to Shelby for the car he wanted to build. They were LUCKY to be selected at all. AC had no clue about "Cobras" and their "body/frame" required major mods at Shelbys direction before it became the world class car that was to come.

What WERE they making when Shelby came along? NOT MUCH! They were through, kaput, game over dude, time to fold. They didn't even HAVE a motor!

Ernie

[Great Asp]

Ernie,

They already had the 260,....right?

I am asking, not stating. I thought they already had a 260 powered car BS (before Shelby).

Eric

[Turk]

Dan mabee wrong!

TURK

[Bill Kesner]

Turk....

Are you sure? Not Dan...how could he be wrong? He sleeps with both Shelby and SPF under his roof.

- Bill -

[computerworks]

Originally posted by Great Asp


Ernie,

They already had the 260,....right?

I am asking, not stating. I thought they already had a 260 powered car BS (before Shelby).

Eric

no, Eric.
Ford and CS sent them the 260 after originally planning the car with the earlier 221 cu V-8

[Lowell W]

Hmmm...Seems to me the only "authentic" "continuation" Shelby Cobras will be the ones SAI buys from AC (Superformance) and then installs Ford engines into! All the rest of 'em (CSX 4000's and 7000's) are replicas.

[speedraser]

AC was building the Ace with the Ford Zephyr straight 6 pre-Shelby (and after the Ace engine and Bristol engine).

IMHO: I don't think a new AC is a replica, even if it's not a Shelby. It's the only "Cobra" ( though not in name) that is made by the same company (change of ownership notwithstanding) on the original jigs, bucks, etc. -- a true "continuation." The '60s COB and COX cars are as genuine as any CSX, without being Shelbys. A new AC is sort of like the Aston Martin DB4 Zagato Sanction II.

[Randall Thomas]

http://performanceunlimited.com/scof/cox2610.html

[Excaliber]

Well,,,that IS a nice COX2610, (to bad it's not a Shelby Cobra). ha ha

Ernie

[brentfenimore]

All,

AC was a supplier under contract to Shelby American from the first Cobra to the last original built in 1967. As for AC inventing or developing the Cobra, it's chassis, suspension, steering, brake system, rear end, engine / drivetrain, powertrain mounting and isnstallation, coolant system, fuel system, differential, instrumentation and seating as well as several other aspects of the Slab Side, FIA and 427 S/C I can assure you that Phil Remington, Ken Miles, Dan Gurney and the gang at SAI would tend to differ from that opinion and have piles of prints and data to prove otherwise. As mentioned AC was actually at the brink of self distruction prior to Shelby's contract with them back in 1962. If you wanted an AC product in '61 or early '62 you would have purchased an AC Ace, not a Cobra and it would not have had an eight cylinder Ford power plant (260 or 289), four speed top loader transmission, Dana rear end, 20 gallon fuel cell, rack and pinion steering or four wheel disc brakes just to mention a few.

As to my sources on the actual owners of AC I can only state what my sources have informed me of. I stand behind the statement that AC is not owned by JP or SPF. I have been informed by very reliable sources that he is managing the buildout of cars at the AC plant, however he is not under contract and does not own the assets mentioned. I will return to this issue after further clairification is recieved.

R Brent Fenimore

[Bill Kesner]

Thanks Brent......

Appreciate the updates. Keep us posted!

- Bill -

[Dan Semko]

Evan and Brent,
If Shelby can claim rights to the Cobra mark (owned by Ford) by obtaining license rights, why can Price not have the same deal with AC?

When it comes to credibility, at least SPF has a living, fully built, saleable AC Mk II IN the US. It was displayed on the SPF stand at Elkhart Lake in July already. Where are SAI’s claimed SA CSX’s? Everyone can post several pix of the AC as Turk did on the other thread and of a batch of pictures on the assembly line in Frimley are easily available. Can SAI do the same with the CAV CSX on which it is claimed they have been taking deposits?
In spite of numerous requests, SAI has not been able to show one single completed so-called CAV CSX. Why? Because there are none to date. Why can't production line pictures be posted?

I've personally had the pleasure of meeting Jim Price at the DVSF and found him to be a person that does not "embellish" his knowledge, experiences or entrapreneurial abilities. He traveled half way around the world to attend the largest gathering of cobra owners in the world and answer any and all questions .
It didn't matter what marque was in attendance or which owner asked the question, each was addressed with equal respect and thoroughness. Where was Carroll Shelby? and where were YOU?
This is a case where the man, Jim Price, puts his money where his mouth is and that's obviously with the consumers that ensure success.


A clarification is important here: Jim Price does not own the brand, he has however secured a license and legal rights to use the brand and holds all rights to build and sell the cars.

P.S. Dan is more than "Mabee" right

[computerworks]

Originally posted by brentfenimore
I think you should all know that AC is not owned by James Price or Superformance.

Originally posted by Dan Semko
When Jim Price purchased AC, he bought it including paying all of their past debts, lock, stock and barrel INCLUDING the Registry,

Originally posted by brentfenimore
I have been informed by very reliable sources that he is managing the buildout of cars at the AC plant, however he is not under contract and does not own the assets mentioned.

Originally posted by Dan Semko
If Shelby can claim rights to the Cobra mark (owned by Ford) by obtaining license rights, why can Price not have the same deal with AC?

Dan...which is it? Did he buy it or did he license it? Ask him and get back to us, OK?

The rest of your post just sounds too confrontational to respond to, actually.