So what constitutes a factory built car ?

[decooney]

Univ. of Conn. completed a study on Factory Systems vs. Dispersed Work forces and found three distintive characteristics to be present at a true factory:

* expensive or indivisible technology;
* concentration of workers in a single location;
* close monitoring or supervision of work;

... followed up with statements about a division of labor, routine, and technology and the so-called "Factory Discipline". According to this study, if these type of combined elements don't exist, it's not a factory. It seems this topic has been debated on other fronts for many decades. ... individuals doing the same job over and over, etc.

So what Cobra replica manufacturers possess ALL of these combined characteristics that make them a factory?

who knows...

[Nuke427]

johnd9, sorry if that came off on the offensive. Wasn't trying to say you were full of bologna! If it worked out better for you that way, I'm glad for you. I think your situation may be a rare one. Hope you're enjoying your car.

[johnd9]

Nuke

No problem at all. I imagine every state is different as far as its regulations. Here it made a big difference but I am glad that most places it doesnt because it seemed like just another way for an insurance company to deny someone and for the others that accept them to charge more.

Power on my friend!

J

[Excaliber]

It's been my experience that LOTS of insurance companys care a LOT about how the car came into being. I'm with Gieco, they wouldn't TOUCH a Cobra. The first words out of their mouth were "kit". I told them NO it WAS Factory Built by Excalibur and it was an Excalibur (don't use the word Cobra).

They insured it. Excalibur is 100% for sure FACTORY BUILT and never offered as a kit. DOT and Federally approved!

Now I was not aware that SAI offered anything LESS than a "roller". I didn't think they sold "kits"?

Ernie (car #33 of 150)

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Nuke427


Insurance couldn't care less if your car was built in a factory with quality controls and by union workers. If it's a reproduction of a 65' Cobra, they will insure it as such or as a special construction of the year it was finished. I guess if your insurance company is incompetent then they may insure a Cobra Lonestar that was built at Lonestar different than if I built it in my back yard. Don't have any idea what the heck the difference would be, but if your insurance company is buying it, great. So contrary to what Johnd9 is advising, it won't make a difference if your car was factory built by Superformance, BDR, Venom or whoever. I guess it may if you call Johnd9's agent.

Johnd9,

You're on the money with this.. Factory built and replica are two key words when shopping for insurance..Never say "home built, or kit car". Insurance must have been very easy for Nuke to acquire but for many owners it's not that easy... An insurance company may or may not be incompetent but they are the ones setting the rules and regulations.


Nuke,

Can I ask what you're paying a year for insurance and any limitations if any????

[Doug I]

I'd look at it like this ....

1. A Factory Built Car would mean I could walk (although I'd probably take the bus) to a dealer showroom, like what I see, pay some money and drive it home.

2. A Kit would be delivered to someone after which work is needed to assemble and complete the vehicle before it can be driven.

3. A Professional Built Car would be a kit delivered to a person for whom their normal business or specific expertise is to complete that car to a drivable condition.

4. A Custom Built Car would be built from scratch where there were no existing designs for the car.

this helps ?

[Excaliber]

Custom built? So DV takes a Classic Roadster, puts a tilt nose on it that covers the Viper V-10. Thats sounds like a custom.

No wait,,,,a custom is more like a 51 Mercury "lead sled", I guess.

Ernie

[Nuke427]

Originally posted by casaleenie



Nuke,

Can I ask what you're paying a year for insurance and any limitations if any????

$800 a year, and that's with having just made a claim on the Cobra I just destroyed in May. Full coverage, 7,500 mile/year limitation. I know for a fact that the MSO you receive with these cars whether factory built or not is going to say "kit" on it. If you can title your car as a 1965 Shelby Cobra then you can insure it as such. But if you title it as a 2003' or whatever year it was made, there is not going to be a vehicle in the books for the insurance company to rate you with so it will go under "special construction". If I build a Lonestar in my backyard and then get it titled as a 2003', what is stopping me from saying it was factory built at Lonestar? The MSO's are identical, they are titled identical. I don't get how telling the insurance company that it is factory built has a bearing on whether or not they insure you. I'm not saying it doesn't, in your guys case it must, but I sure don't see why the insurance boys are buying it.

[johnd9]

Its probably a perception mostly of the quality involved. You and I know a kit build built by a really detail oriented person who takes a lot of care is probably alot better than many "factory builds" but the insurance companies, needing to just adopt a policy that will work across the board, have decided in some cases that they will simply not consider one that is an actual kit.

Just for comparision purposes I just looked at my certificate of origin for my car and it is listed as a 1999 Cobra Replica. My insurance though have listed it as a 1966 Cobra Replica. But on the phone, they made clear to me it could not be a true "kit" or the companies they represented would not insure it - period. They did no validation I am aware of whether I just told them it was a kit or a factory build, they took my word for it.

Incidentally my coverage is $405/yr with a 5,000 mile limit and I am 30.

[Nuke427]

I'm glad you are able to insure it. My previous Cobra titled as a 1996 was $550 a year. Due to the insurance paying a very large claim to me and my BDR is titled as a 2003 my insurance premium has risen. I have insurance through State Farm.

[casaleenie]

NUKE,

Mines titled as a 1964, no limitations,agreed value, towing, rental, uninsured motorist... Clean driving record past three years.
$134. per year.. $67. half... and I'm old....

Nothings stopping you from calling it a "factory built". In fact it's to your benefit to make sure you refer to it as a factory built or replica but never referred to as a "kit car". It's a word game.
terminology, semantics, whatever.
I think we're all on the same page with this and saying basically the same thing...

Hersh,

Nice going, look what you started....geez..

[johnd9]

casaleenie

$134 a year!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nuke427]

When I bought my first Cobra, SF told me if it was titled as a 1965 my insurance would have been under $200 a year. It's all in the titling. That's the difference between insuring a 2003 as opposed to a 1965.

[BANDIT 1]

I know of only one 100% complete Factory (offically) Cobra made by Excalibur.

I know however that in the Cobra eco-system there can only be one "real" meaning of a Factory Built car, that would be with all of the cars ("rolling chassis") being built by the same factory. To my knowledge, no company out there can make a 100% complete car because it would have to meet todays Federal emmisions standards (etc...).

[Excaliber]

I think in the 80's AutoKraft made some DOT approved COMPLETE cars? Or were those only "rollers"?

,,,,and was it Auto Kraft?

Hersh,,,,,you hiding or what? Ha ha.

Ernie

[Alex Donghi]

Liberty Mutual @ $840 per year. No mileage limits I think. It was $270 but I got collision with a 60,000 agreed value. Its reged as a 65 ford cobra

[trularin]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[johnd9]

humn. Do you care to be more specific about your concerns or excitement depending on what that Ahhhhh! referred to?

[Highland Daytona Racing]

Factory built cars????????

Some companies, of which I will not name, are incorrectly using this mantle.

A factory built car, or (Production) car, which these companies are really depicting themselves as, would be by nature and law, structured as Limited production, import/export auto manufacturers, as HDR is set up, and as say Panoz is set up.

To that end, the SVM or (small volume manufacturer), has to offer & manufacture TOTALLY complete cars. Contrary to most popular beliefs, many of a given SVM's cars do not have to comply with current D.O.T regs. The D.O.T regs are now based on a sliding scale, a given manufacturer must comply with said regs depending on said manufacturers production numbers at any given time, then only some regs apply. Recently some additional legislation was passed to give SVM's some breathing room on the 5mph bumper regs, you now have 5 yrs to comply after a given model reachs a certain production amount annually.

VIN #'s: A real SVM has to have state approved & recognized VIN's, these will be stated on the companies MSO and bill of sale, surely NOT stated as (Parts)! However w/ VIN's, this is where it can get tricky when it comes to getting your Limited Production REPLICA bodied cars licensed in some states, i.e C.A. An SVM usually has to VIN their cars as CURRENT YEAR, i.e 2003/04 and so on. At that point getting your cars licensed in some states can be difficult at best, most of the problems with this actually arrise because the DMV people are completely unaware of certain laws and or proceedures, hard to imagin huh? . There is a way to get this done, however I will keep that hard won tid bit of information to myself for now.

Warranty? We are required to offer a publically stated and written factory backed warranty, we have opted to also offer a written money back gaurantee with that. (Plug Plug!

This answer is of course the short version, but I think it outlines the query well enough to show that said companies are using creative marketing, elevating themselves to John Q at large in an attempt to somehow creatively separate themselves for status sake from the ordinary "KIT CAR" segment of the industry. I say put less imagination into marketing and more into making your product far superior and the status will come naturally, but thats just me.

Rick Ellis
HDR

[BMK]

Hi all,

Over here we have one ( that I know of) manufacturer who has a full ADR compliance. That is complying with all Australian Design Rules.

Robnell Cobras paid a lot of money to obtain the ADR and passes on some of the costs to kit builders.



This I think allows them to carry the compliance plate.

Anything else built from other manufacturers requires a full engineers report.



This requires the kit enthusiast to have an engineer check the car during each stage. An estimated cost of about $1500 - 2000Aus.

The end result does not guarantee registration then as there are a number of cars sitting in garages in Sydney Australia waiting for registration even though they have full engineer compliance.




For insurance we are fortunate as there are a number of insurance companies who will cover Street Rods and modified vehicles such as Cobras.

My first Cobra was registered as a Ford modified.

The current car is registered as an Indicon.

This is an idenpendently constructed vehicle.

Insurance cost about $750 per year. Registration is about $540 per year.

Just thought I would throw that in.

To make matters worse you can be put of the road for something that complies in one State but not in the next. Particularly the Street Rods and Street Machines who seem to cop it a bit.



Cheers

Bernie

Bernie Knight
Mt. Gambier South Australia.