I Want It, But How Much Will It Cost?

RallySnake · #1 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 12:07 PM

My friend offered me a race boat with a running 427 SO for $3000. This sounds pretty good, I could even sell the boat for something. But, last night, I got my new Hot Rod magazine which featured a story about the new GT engine. It's an all aluminum 5.4 liter with a screw type supercharger that puts out 500 HP and 500 Pounds/Feet Torque. You know it weighs under 500 pounds too and they talk about releasing it as a crate engine. Man that sound good!

But, how much do you think it will cost?

PatBuckley · #2 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 12:26 PM

Complete - probably $12-15,000

Mr.Fixit · #3 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 02:04 PM

It's an all aluminum 5.4 liter with a screw type supercharger that puts out 500 HP and 500 Pounds/Feet Torque

That's not very impressive. I would be very disappointed with a blown motor that only made 500 hp. We routinely get more than that out of a 351w with a single Holley 4bbl and pump gas.

Sizzler · #4 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fixit

It's an all aluminum 5.4 liter with a screw type supercharger that puts out 500 HP and 500 Pounds/Feet Torque

That's not very impressive. I would be very disappointed with a blown motor that only made 500 hp. We routinely get more than that out of a 351w with a single Holley 4bbl and pump gas.

I don't think it's fair to bring up pump gas as the 5.4l is out of a street-legal vehicle and is designed to run on pump gas as well. As for the HP numbers you've seen out of a 351W, at what rpm?
The 5.4l is all about low-range rpm usage, its torque and HP are all available big-time low-down in the tach. I'm guessing if you wound up a 351W with sufficiently flowing heads and intake and carb, that yes, you could get the big numbers...would you want to run that screamer on the street? I don't think so.

As for the 5.4l available as a crate engine. I'd like to see it too, especially if they could do it for a reasonable dollar figure. I wonder how they'd handle the computer issue though as it is designed to use a unique Motorala PowerPC-based ECM that is unlike any other Ford ECM.

More power to Ford if they do it.

Edley Rondinone · #5 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 05:30 PM

The Motorola ECM should come with the crate engine; unfortunatley, that ECM would be about $2000!

RACERAL · #6 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 07:28 PM

Can you get 100,000 miles out of a 500hp 351....

valpodoc · #7 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 07:39 PM

Is that the motor they are putting in the new GT40 project?
Roland

Edley Rondinone · #8 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 07:45 PM

I am assuming that it IS going into the GT, which is supposed to have 500 HP.

valpodoc · #9 (**permalink**) 10-03-2003, 07:48 PM

i'll bet it's closer to 15,000 as that project semms to get dearer by the day
Roland

cobrashoch · #10 (**permalink**) 10-04-2003, 02:54 PM

R.Snake- I would run (NOW!), not walk, to buy that boat. A side oiler running engine or even a high output engine for 3K? You've got to be kidding me! It's a no brainer, IMHO. I wouldn't even bicker with the price. Pay attention to used FE stuff, and together with a boats sale price I could see how you could easly have a free (as in nothing) block after parting out the stuff you wouldn't want. Remember too that FE's in boats also had reverse rotation cranks too. And even that crank has value.
A 427SO in a Cobra is also a no brainer, even in MY warped little mind. Wish I was there! As for the rest of you guys, what the hell are you guys thinking about, for crying out loud!
cobrashock

Chuck Nickloy · #11 (**permalink**) 10-04-2003, 09:42 PM

Ditto Ron!!

Sizzler · #12 (**permalink**) 10-05-2003, 11:36 AM

Whoa there...

What kind of water has this boat been operating in?

If salt water, that engine, while still running, could be corroded to the nth degree before actual self-destruction.

Not all marine FE's were reverse rotation.

Marine FE's didn't always get the 'good' parts in the way of heads, intakes, rods. They were meant for running in a fairly limited rpm range for longish periods. So don't expect medium-riser topends or CJ-heads.

Yes, it could be a good deal, but it could turn out to be an anchor in a boat, waiting for the chain to be attached.

Fred Douglass · #13 (**permalink**) 10-05-2003, 03:41 PM

....at least the ones worth their salt (oops) do! Salt water is pumped in, circulated through arasiator element which cools the FRESH water coolant in a separate coil....
Now, if'n you DON'T want the race boat ("suspect" engine etc.)---please contact me. No kidding! Especially if it's a vintage raceboat (New Jersey Sea Skiff, Crackerbox or other wooden type....)

While we have Mr. Fixit on the phone...what about that old saw I've been batting around, viz hp/frt-lbs and displacement. Is it of any value to have the cubic inches close to the power output numbers, in ordedr to lessen the stress and enhance the longevity of the engine? I am considering a 408 stroker and looking for 450-500 numbers, re hp and torque---several people said it will last longer, etc. than a 351 producing the same power. True? Or Malarcky? That is the question!

Bart Carter · #14 (**permalink**) 10-06-2003, 12:03 PM

One of the ways to make a high HP engine streetable is to keep the big HP numbers in the higher RPM range. That way you will only be using a managable HP amount on the street by keeping your RPM below 4500. If you need the big HP, go to redline. You do not need or want 500 HP at a lower RPM. The car then has more of a on/off personality. Smooth power application is much better on the street.

A 351 or a 408 can be made as reliable as the parts you use to build it. 100,000 miles and big HP, no problem. But any engine, supercharged or not, that you keep in its HP range is not going to last as long as one driven moderately. And as a whole, forced induction is harder on an engine.

Mr.Fixit · #15 (**permalink**) 10-06-2003, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sizzler

I don't think it's fair to bring up pump gas as the 5.4l is out of a street-legal vehicle and is designed to run on pump gas as well. As for the HP numbers you've seen out of a 351W, at what rpm?
The 5.4l is all about low-range rpm usage, its torque and HP are all available big-time low-down in the tach. I'm guessing if you wound up a 351W with sufficiently flowing heads and intake and carb, that yes, you could get the big numbers...would you want to run that screamer on the street? I don't think so.

As for the 5.4l available as a crate engine. I'd like to see it too, especially if they could do it for a reasonable dollar figure. I wonder how they'd handle the computer issue though as it is designed to use a unique Motorala PowerPC-based ECM that is unlike any other Ford ECM.

More power to Ford if they do it.

"As for the HP numbers you've seen out of a 351W, at what rpm?"
over 500 ft/lbs from 2500 rpm up

"I'm guessing if you wound up a 351W with sufficiently flowing heads and intake and carb, that yes, you could get the big numbers...would you want to run that screamer on the street? I don't think so."

Then you are wrong. Idles ike a champ at 850, runs cool, plenty of low end, peak HP in the 6200 range

NOTE: when I say 351W, I am including strokers built on that platform as well.

flipper35 · #16 (**permalink**) 10-06-2003, 01:23 PM

I would guess the at 500/500 the 5.4 is making it's power in the upper rpm range.

Sizzler · #17 (**permalink**) 10-06-2003, 04:20 PM

Quote:

NOTE: when I say 351W, I am including strokers built on that platform as well. [/b]

Then aside from all the rpm-range-b-s, what you're saying is you're comparing a 392/408/427 cubic inch big-4-barrel-carb Windsor stroker to a pump-gas sipping, emissions-compliant, 100K-mile-warranted 330 cubic inch motor, albeit, with a blower (that could, in the privacy of someone's garage, have a smaller pulley substituted for the factory one).

OK.

Want to compare a 514 to a 427 now? Your choice: 427FE or 427 Windsor against the 514. Let's hear about how a 514 can match the performance of a 427...

Mr.Fixit · #18 (**permalink**) 10-06-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sizzler

Then aside from all the rpm-range-b-s, what you're saying is you're comparing a 392/408/427 cubic inch big-4-barrel-carb Windsor stroker to a pump-gas sipping, emissions-compliant, 100K-mile-warranted 330 cubic inch motor, albeit, with a blower (that could, in the privacy of someone's garage, have a smaller pulley substituted for the factory one).

OK.

Want to compare a 514 to a 427 now? Your choice: 427FE or 427 Windsor against the 514. Let's hear about how a 514 can match the performance of a 427...

choose to believe whatever you would like sizzler, the RPM ranges and power figures are accurate, and were the result of an ongoing engine development program. Yes a 408 or 392 or 418 stroker is a "351W" and I dare you to be able to tell the difference between them without removing the oil pan or cylinder head, because you can't, they have the same weight and external dimensions. And yes, those HP and torque values were on pump gas, CA pump gas at that, where you can't get better than 91 octane. I have never heard of a 100K warrantee on a crate motor, and since this discussion was based around a cobra enthusiast putting said motor into their cobra, crate motor is a fair assumption. Emissions compliancy doesn't mean a hell of a hoot, the original poster was trying to decide between the blower motor and an FE, I don't see too many cobras with FE's that are smog compliant. There is nothing revolutionary or even exciting about a 500 hp blown small block motor, maybe there will be something exciting after the aftermarket plays with the new design, but not yet.

Bart Carter · #19 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RallySnake I got my new Hot Rod magazine which featured a story about the new GT engine. It's an all aluminum 5.4 liter with a screw type supercharger that puts out 500 HP and 500 Pounds/Feet Torque. You know it weighs under 500 pounds too and they talk about releasing it as a crate engine.

About that weight...the spec box listed the weight at 694 lbs. I would still take the 351, stroked or not.

Sizzler · #20 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bart Carter

About that weight...the spec box listed the weight at 694 lbs. I would still take the 351, stroked or not.

Are you sure that isn't for the iron block 5.4l available in Ford Trucks now?

The GT 5.4l is aluminum blocked.

Mr. Fixit, some of us do care about emissions. My fuel-injected FE has passed emissions. Time to give a hoot. As for comparisons, comparing 408 cubic inches to 330 cubic inches is just wrong, bad science, unfair, whatever you want to call it, it's just not right.