Tranny 4-speed or 5-speed Hmmmmm! - Page 2

RallySnake · #21 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 06:10 PM

Chris,

The 23 mpg is not usually important unless you drive from California to Texas and back like I did in February. Or, you drive long distance rallies where you may have to go 200 miles between gas stations. Like the events in March, April, June and September.

You would have to be a "hard core" Cobra driver to understand, I guess.

Paul

Hal Copple · #22 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 07:53 PM

Actually, i do get really good highway mileage out of my car. On a highway, when i am just cruising along, i really can pull 20 mpg or so at 70-80 mph. This spring, i drove several hundred miles in a pouring rain, such that i just sat at about 50-55 mph, and with careful throttle, due to rain, i really did get an accurately measured 23 mpg.

If you don't drive much, or your car is a "waxer" or show car, or a "sunday" car, mpg doesn't matter much. But for a daily driver like me, about 63-65 thousand miles, it actually is pretty important.

I can have my cake, and eat it too. Actually, being in South Carolina, a better expression would be "i can have my pecan pie, and eat it too."

If you have never had Southern BBQ, or Carolina Pecan Pie, you just have no idea what you have missed.

This is why God made the Pig.

Chaplin · #23 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 09:34 PM

Hal-
Southern BBQ and pecan pie are some of my favorite things in the world. That's one of the reasons why the Carolinas are high on my list of states to move to.

ERA 626 · #24 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 10:39 PM

I have a richmond 5 speed, however it is very wide and I had trouble fitting it under my tunnell.
The 2.88 rear gear seems to work great with the richmond. The 1st gear is very useable and the 5th, I am doing 3k rpm's @ 80 mph!

Jamo · #25 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 11:34 PM

I've lived with both, a Tremec 5 spd with a 351C and a toploader with the current big block. Some observations....

I miss the short throw of the Tremec.

I love the feeling of strength with the toploader...knowing it's probably gonna be the last thing that breaks on this car. Part of that comes with dealing with Kee.

I did like the lower rpms with the Tremec (3.54s), but it really didn't matter on day to day drives. Always downshifted for oomph anyway. Course, the Cleveland was a high winding SOB.

I'm running 3.31s with the stroked Shelby block and toploader, and it has been very nice. Every gear is usable, and I'm not downshifting very often to find a gear. Second gear takes me around most autocross courses (shifting wastes time).

Gas mileage? I have a 40 gallon tank with only a fuel pressure gauge. I don't even think about gas mileage anymore.

All in all, it seems to me that a properly matched five speed (one where all of the gears, including first, are usable) with a big block is simply undoing part of the benefit of the big block...using torque instead of shifting. If you're going to be on long drives at 70 mph+ for a majority of the time, consider the Tremec. An alternative is the toploader with maybe 3.31s. some are trying even 2.88s.

Mike Bartlett · #26 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 11:43 PM

Thanks everyone for all the comments about the tranny's. Hal, I really appreciate the calculator site for plugging in different numbers to see what works. I guess it is time to play with tire size, rear ratio's, etc.

Thanks again all...

Mike Bartlett · #27 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 11:46 PM

Jamo,
With your Toploader and 3.54's what r's are you running at 70-80
mph? I have heard around 2300-rpm but that seems a bit low. I would think around 2800?

Jamo · #28 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 11:51 PM

Mike, I'm running 3.31s with the toploader. Haven't paid much attention to the speedo, but it seems like it's around 3k for 70 or so, maybe a bit higher on the rpms. But I will add I'm running a very big cam (650 lift) and I run the engine where it feels best, which is about 3K.

Hal Copple · #29 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 05:36 AM

Chaplin, i've been all over the world, lived in many States, (grew up as a Navy Dependant), and i love living in the Carolinas more than any other place i have been to. Sure, San Diego is nice, i really liked Colorado Springs, and Monteray is beautiful too. But when a place is so wonderful, every body else things so too, and that makes the cost of living there, especially in housing, just too much for me.

I really do feel the Upstate Carolinas have the best of everything. I can be in the mountains in about two hours, or in the surf in the same driving time. Up to DC, down to Atlanta, wherever i want to go. I can be out in my garage every day of the year. We have snow in the winter, and warmth in the summer. Affordable housing (at least compared to some other places), and all the rural land one could hope to drive thru.

Folks are friendly, helpful, proud, and glad to help out.

I don't intend to ever move again. As i get older, i tolerate really cold weather poorly, and resent being trapped in the house. We may someday get a cabin up near Ashville, or a place down on the beach. But our home will always be in Upstate SC. My kids absolutely love living here, compared to the midwest where they grew up. They are adamant they will never leave the coast.

What more can i say,

Sizzler · #30 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by decooney

[b]I have a beefy 4-speed Toploader in my car. Its great, however, there are several times when I'm running on the freeway getting to places next to my other friends with the newer TKO 5speed...

Their engines are mildly crusing along, not spinning too many RPMs, easily going 75/80 at lower RPM, and my motor is over here spinning away even with 3.31 gears and taller tires. For around town and stoplights, the TL is nice. If you drive on the freeway for 1-3+ hours straight any time on periodic trips, it'll make you think some more about it.

... if you are not going to drag race the car, and you don't need to dump the clutch like a dingbat, the newer TKOs do nicely and you get to save your motor a bit in the process... I like the originality of the Nascar Toploader but none of these replicas are original Cobras, so who cares - it really comes down to what you like and need and how you plan to use the car...B]

There you go, real world experience, you may not need or even want an OD once you get things together. Which is why you might just want to pass on the OD altogether. Just know that if you do want one in the future it would still be possible to add it to a toploader.

Sort of my thinking so far. No OD, but I'm keeping it open as an option...

cobrashoch · #31 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 08:06 PM

Sizzler- a gear venders costs about 1700 beans plus setup costs,
As does a TKO. If you are using a close ratio toploader a gear venders only practical use is as a overdrive. The very best usable combo I've ever seen with a gear venders stick verson was with a very wide ratio Gerico (3) three speed. Don't know if Gerico still make that thing though. That combo seemed to give the best of both worlds ratio wise, street and race, but switching drives in a G.V. really does seem to become a pain in the ass over the long haul. I'm thinking of using a G.V. behind my Coan glide though, so I can run some really tall gears next season. Remember too that you are adding 12 inches to the trannys tailshaft. This shortens the driveshaft that much on a all ready short Cobra driveshaft. On allmost all short wheelbase Cobras this would mean that you can't use a live axle, only a independent rear. (maybe)
In imho only, if you know or even think you are going to need a overdrive it's best to bite the bullet and go with a overdrive tranny right off. In a Cobra a two speed rear end makes more sense to me than a overdrive does. My vote is a TKOII unless you are going past 500lbs of engine torque and plan on really using it.
cobrashock

427sharpe · #32 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 02:13 PM

I ran a 4 speed when I built my car, changed over to a 5 speed
TKO behind my previous motor (535 CID) and there is NO comparison. The TKO held up fine, even racing, and it definitely improved driveability. No way I go back to a straight 4 again.

Sizzler · #33 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cobrashoch

Sizzler- a gear venders costs about 1700 beans plus setup costs,
As does a TKO. If you are using a close ratio toploader a gear venders only practical use is as a overdrive. The very best usable combo I've ever seen with a gear venders stick verson was with a very wide ratio Gerico (3) three speed. Don't know if Gerico still make that thing though. That combo seemed to give the best of both worlds ratio wise, street and race, but switching drives in a G.V. really does seem to become a pain in the ass over the long haul. I'm thinking of using a G.V. behind my Coan glide though, so I can run some really tall gears next season. Remember too that you are adding 12 inches to the trannys tailshaft. This shortens the driveshaft that much on a all ready short Cobra driveshaft. On allmost all short wheelbase Cobras this would mean that you can't use a live axle, only a independent rear. (maybe)
In imho only, if you know or even think you are going to need a overdrive it's best to bite the bullet and go with a overdrive tranny right off. In a Cobra a two speed rear end makes more sense to me than a overdrive does. My vote is a TKOII unless you are going past 500lbs of engine torque and plan on really using it.
cobrashock

That's sort of where I am. The torque is such that 1st gear is pretty much of a waste, and 1700 is a lot of beans, but spending them on a weak-sister 5-speed up front only to watch it fall to pieces in the rear-view mirror just didn't seem the wise thing to do. And so far, I'm not missing an OD, not enough driving really. But as I said, I like to keep the option open. And it helped having an easy bolt-in trans considering all the other pain encountered in front of it.